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Is there any indications that it will be open-sourced. Knowing Apple, this doesn't seem likely since it will parallel the Unix/Linux effort.

With SMB now being GPLv3, there might very well be a place for Apple's SMBX with a less restrictive license in open source. Apple has open sourced in-house developed projects before.

Apple hasn't been moving away from open source but it seems to be moving away from GPL because it is forced to when projects switch to GPL versions incompatible with Apple's usage of the project.

I didnt claim Samba was a majority of OSX, Apple replaced a lot more than just Samba and GCC, those were only examples.

GCC was replaced with another open source project. Apple was forced to produce SMBX due to SMB's more restrictive license.

Just out of curiosity, what other FOSS projects were dropped and replaced with proprietary software?
 
With SMB now being GPLv3, there might very well be a place for Apple's SMBX with a less restrictive license in open source. Apple has open sourced in-house developed projects before.

Apple hasn't been moving away from open source but it seems to be moving away from GPL because it is forced to when projects switch to GPL versions incompatible with Apple's usage of the project.

So let's consider why Apple is moving away from GPLv3. Could it be the requirement for apps to be signed? What is FOSS's main goal? Allow people to modify software to suit their needs. Signing software runs completely counter to that goal.


GCC was replaced with another open source project.
Actually it was replaced with gcc-llvm (which itself is a modified closed-source version of Dragonegg). Apple obviously is moving to replace that with clang/LLVM, but until they work the kinks out, it might as well yet be another buggy project.

Apple was forced to produce SMBX due to SMB's more restrictive license.

See the first response.

Just out of curiosity, what other FOSS projects were dropped and replaced with proprietary software?

Darwin itself used to be open source (Apple provided the ISOs until 10.5) and was removed.

There was originally no DRM on iTunes until Fairplay came around which is is closed-source DRM.

Half the command line tools (top, netstat, vmstat, iostat) were replaced (not sure when exactly, I didnt even have OSX installed until 10.5) with some crappy OSX version and more importantly, not open-sourced.
 
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So let's consider why Apple is moving away from GPLv3. Could it be the requirement for apps to be signed? What is FOSS's main goal? Allow people to modify software to suit their needs. Signing software runs completely counter to that goal.

Signing software provides a lot of security benefits and doing so is a big part of the new security features in OS X. Apps don't have to be signed to run in OS X but Apple does require default and app store distributed apps to be signed for security.

You could always run non-default versions of apps in OS X if you choose to do so.

Actually it was replaced with gcc-llvm (which itself is a modified closed-source version of Dragonegg). Apple obviously is moving to replace that with clang/LLVM, but until they work the kinks out, it might as well yet be another buggy project.

I believe llvm-gcc is open source as well.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/llvm-gcc/

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=apple_llvm_gcc&num=1

LLVM-GCC is provided with Xcode 3.2 found in Mac OS X 10.6, but it can also be found in several distribution package repositories, including Ubuntu.

Isn't Dragonegg part of the llvm project?

From the llvm project page:

dragonegg integrates the LLVM optimizers and code generator with the GCC 4.5 parsers. This allows LLVM to compile Ada, Fortran, and other languages supported by the GCC compiler frontends, and access to C features not supported by Clang (such as OpenMP).

Clang-llvm has already replaced llvm-gcc.

Darwin itself used to be open source (Apple provided the ISOs until 10.5) and was removed.

That doesn't mean that the source code is no longer available.

Everything in the following link is Darwin.

http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-108/

Darwin builds are available up to the Snow Leopard release.

http://darwinbuild.macosforge.org

Recently, the release of darwin builds has lagged the Mac OS X release versions.

There was originally no DRM on iTunes until Fairplay came around which is is closed-source DRM.

How does DRM on media content have anything to do with open source software.

I know the EFF and FSF oppose DRM but this issue doesn't have any thing to do with open source software in OS X.

iTunes is built on Webkit which is open source.

http://www.webkit.org

Half the command line tools (top, netstat, vmstat, iostat) were replaced (not sure when exactly, I didnt even have OSX installed until 10.5) with some crappy OSX version and more importantly, not open-sourced.

Are you sure?

Seems like those command line tools are carry overs from BSD.

Screen Shot 2012-08-26 at 11.28.53 PM.png

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/netstat.1.html

Most likely have to dig around the XNU source code to find them.

http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-2050.7.9/

Here is top in the 10.8 open source code.

Screen Shot 2012-08-26 at 11.29.15 PM.png

http://opensource.apple.com/source/top/top-73/

http://opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-108/
 
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this thread really needs a poll.....i'm going with Sea lion as posted above :)

Yeah do u know how to do it? people will just click on desired ball and there will be percentage shown ..

exampler

clipboard01jd.png
 
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Yeah do u know how to do it people will just click on desired bar and there will be percentage shown ..

yes, when you create a new thread there is a option down below that says
'Yes, post a poll with this thread'

then you put the number of options you want in the box.

when you submit it will redirect you to another page that you will add your options in and walla!
 
Signing software provides a lot of security benefits and doing so is a big part of the new security features in OS X. Apps don't have to be signed to run in OS X but Apple does require default and app store distributed apps to be signed for security.

You could always run non-default versions of apps in OS X if you choose to do so.

For now. Want to take bets on how long before they take away the option to install unsigned apps?


I believe llvm-gcc is open source as well.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/llvm-gcc/

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=apple_llvm_gcc&num=1


Isn't Dragonegg part of the llvm project?

From the llvm project page:


The llvm-gcc you refer to is indeed open-source, but that's not what Apple included with Mac OS X. They heavily modified llvm-gcc so that it supports all sorts of Apple extensions and the parser is from 4.2, not 4.5, so it still has some insanely old outstanding bugs (like OpenMP crashing when launched from QT child threads for example).

Clang-llvm has already replaced llvm-gcc.

Maybe for iOS developers. I assure you there are still many Mac devs who need OpenMP who still compile with Apple's version of llvm-gcc.


That doesn't mean that the source code is no longer available.

Everything in the following link is Darwin.

http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-108/

Darwin builds are available up to the Snow Leopard release.

http://darwinbuild.macosforge.org

Recently, the release of darwin builds has lagged the Mac OS X release versions.

Actually, you cannot build a Darwin kernel from those sources and run it on anything beyond Leopard. Apple has stated that it will not release the Intel sources necessary to build it.

How does DRM on media content have anything to do with open source software.

I know the EFF and FSF oppose DRM but this issue doesn't have any thing to do with open source software in OS X.

iTunes is built on Webkit which is open source.

http://www.webkit.org

I was pointing out examples of where Apple moved from "Open" to "Restricted".

Seems like those command line tools are carry overs from BSD.
They are modified from the original BSD. But I guess you are correct, the source is available with those commands.
 
Snow Leopard, no doubt. It was the OS on my first Mac. It freed me from Windows like a hot air balloon, gently soaring to new heights, free, weightless, peaceful.

Lion was the shotgun fired at said balloon, and the 2 mile drop back to Earth.

Mountain Lion is the dusting myself off, and walking back home, but the damage is definitely done.
 
Oh i must miss it thnx u great guy ;)
Can I still edit it or it is too late?

Not as far as I know, you could however ask a mod via the
report.gif
button to change it to a poll. Maybe that works, maybe it does not, VBB is quite an ancient software for hosting message boards. And bloated.
 
It baffles me how anybody can choose Lion, the incomplete and inferior version to ML that should never have been released.

Anyway, my top 3 are:

1. Snow Leopard
2. Mountain Lion
3. Leopard
 
Lion is in my opinion utter and complete *****. Even if i could run it on my macbook i wouldn't. It causes me actual physical pain every time i have to use the iMacs at school.

1. Snow Leopard
2. Tiger
3. Leopard

As I said somewhere else. Snow Leopard, its quicker than a jackrabbit and its code is tighter than a nun's... Bottom line, its fast as hell.
 
For now. Want to take bets on how long before they take away the option to install unsigned apps?

The purpose would still be for security. Signing apps is compatible with many open source licenses.

The llvm-gcc you refer to is indeed open-source, but that's not what Apple included with Mac OS X. They heavily modified llvm-gcc so that it supports all sorts of Apple extensions and the parser is from 4.2, not 4.5, so it still has some insanely old outstanding bugs (like OpenMP crashing when launched from QT child threads for example).

It seems Apple only modified GCC, which is now removed from OS X.

llvm-gcc in 10.8 appears to be one version behind Dragonegg.

Both clang and llvm-gcc aren't modified by Apple but may not represent the most recent versions.

As always users can install alternate compilers, such as GCC or newer versions of the included compilers.

Clang was released alongside MacOS X 10.6, which came with no less than 3 compilers – GCC 4.2 (Apple modified), LLVM-GCC, and Clang. With 10.7 Lion, Apple has dropped their version of GCC 4.2 entirely. LLVM-GCC and Clang are both present, but Apple has made clear that LLVM-GCC will be going away just as soon as Clang’s C++ support is ready for prime-time.

So as of MacOS X 10.7 Lion, Apple’s Xcode includes 2 compilers – Clang and LLVM-GCC. There are also versions of the commercial Intel C++ compiler, the standard Free Software Foundation version of GCC, and a small research project based on the original BSD Unix compiler pcc (Portable C Compiler) which are available.

Clang – Currently the Apple-blessed compiler for OS X, Clang offers excellent Xcode integration, helpful error messages, fast compile times, and pretty decent code. The main downside is that it still has a few more bugs compared to more mature options. Clang can also be built on Linux and many other platforms. It requires LLVM as it’s back-end. The current version is 3.0.

LLVM-GCC – Kept around by Apple for compatibility reasons, LLVM-GCC probably won’t be around much longer. It does have the advantage of offering a more mature front-end than Clang, while still giving access to the LLVM optimizers. It will also work on Linux and on most other UNIX platforms. The current version is 3.0 (the front-end is 4.2).

(FSF) GCC - The official FSF-sanctioned GNU Compiler Collection is no longer supported by Apple, meaning you have to build and install it yourself. It offers the most mature front-end of the open-source options, and in most benchmarks it generates the best code. On the flip side, it is generally slower to compile than the others, and has some of the less helpful error messages. It can be built on just about any platform – Linux, UNIX and Windows. The current version is 4.6.

Intel C/C++ – Intel’s compilers on MacOS X are a straight-off port of their Linux tools. It’s a commercial tool, but they do have a 30-day demo available for download. Naturally, performance is heavily tuned for the latest Intel processors. On the whole, it seems to produce slightly better code than GCC, although for specific computational tests, it may have more significant advantages (automatic vectorization support for example is quite good). The compiler uses the EDG front-end, and offers the same language extensions that GCC does. It is also available for Linux and Windows. The current version is 12.0 (confusingly labeled 2011).

PCC – Based on the original BSD C compiler, the Portable C Compilerß is small, reasonably fast, and can build most simple programs. It doesn’t have the many language extensions that GCC or the others do, and it doesn’t do C++. It can be built on most UNIX platforms. The current version is 1.0.

http://left404.com/2011/10/15/macos-x-10-7-compilers/

Actually, you cannot build a Darwin kernel from those sources and run it on anything beyond Leopard. Apple has stated that it will not release the Intel sources necessary to build it.

XNU is the kernel, not Darwin.

The source for XNU is available from Apple.

And you missed the point I was trying to make in my previous post.

The sources for the different software the would be Darwin if a build was available is still available for download from Apple.

That doesn't mean that the source code is no longer available.

Everything in the following link is Darwin.

http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/mac-os-x-108/

I am also pretty sure the trunk at http://darwinbuild.macosforge.org is for Snow Leopard.

Screen Shot 2012-08-27 at 3.31.05 PM.png

The only thing that Apple has stopped providing are binary builds of Darwin. But, everything that would be Darwin is available.
 
Mountain Lion hands down... SL was nice but the future is here... Recall the words of Eric the Clown "You're living in the past man, you're stuck on some clown from the 60's, man!!":D
 
So let's consider why Apple is moving away from GPLv3. Could it be the requirement for apps to be signed? What is FOSS's main goal? Allow people to modify software to suit their needs. Signing software runs completely counter to that goal.



Actually it was replaced with gcc-llvm (which itself is a modified closed-source version of Dragonegg). Apple obviously is moving to replace that with clang/LLVM, but until they work the kinks out, it might as well yet be another buggy project.



See the first response.



Darwin itself used to be open source (Apple provided the ISOs until 10.5) and was removed.

There was originally no DRM on iTunes until Fairplay came around which is is closed-source DRM.

Half the command line tools (top, netstat, vmstat, iostat) were replaced (not sure when exactly, I didnt even have OSX installed until 10.5) with some crappy OSX version and more importantly, not open-sourced.

It is more then just for signing apps. GPLv3 also prevents locking down shared use computers since any user must be able to replace any part of a system. There is also the GPLv3 "Tivo clause" that prevents imaging a workstation. IT departments frequently deploy their machines using imaging.
 
Been through them all and left remembering...

Most Anticipated and Most Appreciated on Day 1: 10.5 Leopard (except that it killed Diablo)

Least Anticipated but Most Appreciated on Day 365: 10.6 Snow Leopard

Least Anticipated and Least Appreciated: 10.7 Lion

Hopelessly Bloated but Liking it WAY More than Expected: 10.8 Mountain Lion
 
Been through them all and left remembering...

Most Anticipated and Most Appreciated on Day 1: 10.5 Leopard (except that it killed Diablo)

Least Anticipated but Most Appreciated on Day 365: 10.6 Snow Leopard

Least Anticipated and Least Appreciated: 10.7 Lion

Hopelessly Bloated but Liking it WAY More than Expected: 10.8 Mountain Lion
My favorite are Leopard and Lion, since those are the ones I use. :p
 
I've used them all since Jaguar. Leopard had the most problems. I currently run Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion, the former for special use (servers) and the latter for workstations. I feel I've gained more in Mountain Lion than I've lost.
 
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