The Blue Apple

[Mark James]

Your preference does not translate into logic. As a Mac user since System 6, my preference is to launch apps by double-clicking on a document. I prefer to let the Finder take care of launching my applications. The behavior that you desire reveals of your preference for Windows and its Start menu.

That might have worked in the days when you and I just used Word, MacDraw and MacPaint, but most documents can be opened in two or more applications these days and there are times you want to use different applications for the same document. PDFs, JPGs and TXTs spring immediately to mind.

****

Cleo: addressed while you were composing, I think!

 

[Blue Velvet]

As a designer, I find the dock far more useful than the old Apple Menu.

e.g. I can drag/open PDFs onto either Illustrator/Pshop/Acrobat or stubborn Word files onto TextEdit without having to go through the Open dialog...

 

[Mark James]

e.g. I can drag/open PDFs onto either Illustrator/Pshop/Acrobat or stubborn Word files onto TextEdit without having to go through the Open dialog...

You have a point, and I use the feature *if* the application is open and hence on the Dock. But I use (at a guess) two dozen applications each day, and I'm buggered if I'm going to have all of them permanently available on my Dock.

Can we all agree that Windowshade X is invaluable, btw?

 

[broken_keyboard]

Your preference does not translate into logic. As a Mac user since System 6, my preference is to launch apps by double-clicking on a document. I prefer to let the Finder take care of launching my applications. The behavior that you desire reveals of your preference for Windows and its Start menu.

Well that is a stronger reason to have your document icons in the Apple menu, since you are relying on the fact of the OS being involved to know the app you are implying.

Anyway how could I like the start menu? I said the Blue Apple is a visual representation of the fact of an OS. Start is not that. Start is a verb and there are no actions without entities that perform them, so at best Start implies the OS, but the whole thing I am saying is that it involvment should be explicit. People need a clear model in their heads of what is going on.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Even though I have about 30-odd icons to the left of the bar and about a dozen or so folder icons to the right, I still find it pretty manageable... mind you, that's at it's smallest size on a 21" monitor.

Launching apps: Anybody who works 40+ hours pwk with a Mac should have their core apps launch on log-in/start-up anyway, IMHO. Furthermore, what difference does it make if your Mac is put to sleep or never turned off (like our work machines) -- I can think of worse things to worry about in OSX than launching apps.

Designing on the basis of 'logic' for interface design, is inherently pointless. Humans just don't work that way...

 

[broken_keyboard]

Designing on the basis of 'logic' for interface design, is inherently pointless. Humans just don't work that way...

Logic is what makes us men and not animals. You should try to be more logical, as much as possible.

 

[Mark James]

Logic is what makes us men and not animals. You should try to be more logical, as much as possible.

I'm with Blue Velvet on this one. Logic is vastly overrated.

 

[Blue Velvet]

Logic is what makes us men and not animals.

Speak for yourself, buddy.

(This woman writes...)

Furthermore, I don't see many animals screwing up the planet, indulging in genocide and tying themselves into existential knots over religion...

You should try to be more logical, as much as possible.

Unfeeling nonsense... Logic has very little to offer towards creativity: the impulse that's resulted in some of humanity's greatest achievements.

 

[broken_keyboard]

I'm with Blue Velvet on this one. Logic is vastly overrated.

It is the only way to know reality.

 

[broken_keyboard]

Speak for yourself, buddy.

I speak for all real humans.

Unfeeling nonsense... Logic has very little to offer towards creativity: the impulse that's resulted in some of humanity's greatest achievements.

There is no clash between feeling your feelings and being logical. This is real life, not an episode of Star Trek.

 

[Blue Velvet]

It is the only way to know reality.

Incorrect.

Your self, your reality is perceived, felt, experienced by yourself and others, not logically deduced... you're wandering up a Descartesian blind alley.

How does logic play in the real world of hopes, fears, laughter, sadness, love and despair? Where was logic when your creation came about?

 

[Mark James]

It is the only way to know reality.

Reality is equally overrated, b_k.

 

[wPod]

so i hear windows switcher? what do you want next, the apple menu the be in the bottom left hand side of the screen?!!? i personally like how the applel menu is set up. you CAN launch aps from it, under recent items you can launch the most recent apps you normally use. thats much better than a 'start' menu where you have a list of 500 different apps that are on your computer and it is tedious to search through for the one app you want. i also think the dock does an excelent job at program management which it sounds like you want. try setting it small, possibly hidden (saves me screen space) and turn off all the bouncing crap. then it becomes a nice program managment screen and quick launch for the apps you frequently use and want easy access to.

 

[Mark James]

so i hear windows switcher? what do you want next, the apple menu the be in the bottom left hand side of the screen?!!?

I'm not comprehending these Windows accusations.

b_k could equally be asking for the reinstatement of OS9 Apple Menu functionality, surely? That's all I'm asking for.

 

[broken_keyboard]

Incorrect.

Your self, your reality is perceived, felt, experienced by yourself and others, not logically deduced... you're wandering up a Descartesian blind alley.

Yes it is grasped through percepts, but understood i.e. known through concepts. And in the process of understanding it, logic provides a valuable guard against stumbling in to the unreal world of contradiction.

How does logic play in the real world of hopes, fears, laughter, sadness, love and despair? Where was logic when your creation came about?

Logic helps ensure your basic premises are valid. These premises in turn become the subconsious source of your emotions. If your logic is correct, you avoid contradiction, and your emotions are strong and consistent (which is good). If you are illogical, the contradictions in your reasoning reflect in your emotions and you become a conflicted mess, always having mixed emotions an never being sure of anything. You become an emotional wreck and are always unhappy, never considering that your lack of reason and logic could be the cause.

 

[broken_keyboard]

I'm not comprehending these Windows accusations.

Me neither. Who said anything about Windows? I explained my reasons, or so I thought.

 

[Littleodie914]

Logic helps ensure your basic premises are valid. These premises in turn become the subconsious source of your emotions. If your logic is correct, you avoid contradiction, and your emotions are strong and consistent (which is good). If you are illogical, the contradictions in your reasoning reflect in your emotions and you become a conflicted mess, always having mixed emotions an never being sure of anything. You become an emotional wreck and are always unhappy, never considering that your lack of reason and logic could be the cause.

...My head hurts...
...I think I need a cookie...

 

[paperkirin]

What you're missing...

The question at the root of this is, why does it represent the OS? There is nothing to suggest it, because the OS' logo is the blue/faux-fur/brushed metal X. Furthermore, if you want the OS, and nothing but, type '>console' at the login prompt. There you are. The point being, the whole GUI is just another process running on top of the kernel. By the logic that app launching is the OS' job and so should be done by something that represents the OS, I could argue that all app launching should (and could) be done via Terminal.app.
Anyway, in certain circumstances, such as creating the Periodic Table, working out the function of the Bowman's Capsule, and figuring out the probability of a meterorite wiping out all life, logic is immensely useful. When being creative, though, most find it gets in the way. Why is her hair maroon? 'Cause I felt like it. 'Cause I like the colour. Who knows?

 

[Counterfit]

After using OS X exclusively (more or less) for two years now, and recently using (or trying to anyway) some old (Tangerines running OS 9 ) iMacs at school, I've realized that the old Apple Menu sucks balls. Not just any balls, big hairy smelly ones. Why? Because it's different on every damn computer. Want to open (ugh) Internet Explorer? Have to find it. Is it on the Netboot HD? The local HD? Maybe, better search the Apple menu. Let's see, 50 icons that look exactly the same at 16x16...

 

[Mark James]

After using OS X exclusively (more or less) for two years now, and recently using (or trying to anyway) some old (Tangerines running OS 9 ) iMacs at school, I've realized that the old Apple Menu sucks balls. Not just any balls, big hairy smelly ones. Why? Because it's different on every damn computer. Want to open (ugh) Internet Explorer? Have to find it. Is it on the Netboot HD? The local HD? Maybe, better search the Apple menu. Let's see, 50 icons that look exactly the same at 16x16...

The fact that no two Apple Menus look alike is a tribute to the AM's flexibility, no? And as for icons, why are you looking at icons? Bugger icons. View by name.

 

[Littleodie914]

After using OS X exclusively (more or less) for two years now, and recently using (or trying to anyway) some old (Tangerines running OS 9 ) iMacs at school, I've realized that the old Apple Menu sucks balls. Not just any balls, big hairy smelly ones. Why? Because it's different on every damn computer. Want to open (ugh) Internet Explorer? Have to find it. Is it on the Netboot HD? The local HD? Maybe, better search the Apple menu. Let's see, 50 icons that look exactly the same at 16x16...

Another reason I use quicksilver

 

[broken_keyboard]

The question at the root of this is, why does it represent the OS? There is nothing to suggest it, because the OS' logo is the blue/faux-fur/brushed metal X. Furthermore, if you want the OS, and nothing but, type '>console' at the login prompt. There you are. The point being, the whole GUI is just another process running on top of the kernel. By the logic that app launching is the OS' job and so should be done by something that represents the OS, I could argue that all app launching should (and could) be done via Terminal.app.

When you use the console, there is no visual representation of the OS. There is nothing that stays the same in the face of other things like it changing.

If you are saying the console is somehow closer to the OS or more low level, it is just a process like any other that calls OS functions.

 

[broken_keyboard]

The fact that no two Apple Menus look alike is a tribute to the AM's flexibility, no? And as for icons, why are you looking at icons? Bugger icons. View by name.

I agree. Icons are totally overrated, one day they will be gone I hope. I found some icons once that were just the name of the app written in a cool font, they were great.

 

[Mechcozmo]

I set my dock up like this:

I have a number of frequently used apps permanently stuck in there. If I am using it more than 2x a week, its there. This list includes:
Finder, Safari, iChat, MacStumbler, iTunes, Word, Entourage, OmniGraffle, iPhoto, iMovie, Terminal, Stickies, System Preferences, and an AppleScript.
I know their icons because I use them so often. I place them in an order I want (click and drag to change). I just move the mouse down, and without needing to read anything to make sure it is the right program, I have Entourage, iTunes, iChat, and Safari open in the time it takes to click.

Now, for the right side of the dock.
I created five folders. I gave each a custom icon depending on what they are supposed to be doing. They are:
Office, iApps and more, Utilities, Fun Small Stuff, Essentials. I also have a folder that contains my schoolwork... a throwback to when I used OS 8.6. It contains everything I have ever done, stuff I want to keep, and current schoolwork. That is in there, again with a custom icon. Finally resides my Applications folder and then my Trash can.

In each of the folders mentioned (Office through to Essentials) are aliases. They are aliases to other applications!
In the Office folder, I merely control-click or right-click and I am able to choose between Word, Excel, Entourage, PowerPoint, Textedit, and Bibliographer.

In the iApps and more folder, I do the same, but now am presented with a different list. It is: Final Cut Express, GarageBand, GraphicConverter, iChat, iDVD, iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes, and Photoshop Elements 2.0
I can now open GraphicConverter with two mouse clicks. Even though I don't use it that often, when I do, it is very convenient to have it there. Same with Photoshop. I use it more often, but it is so accesable, I don't ever need to worry about where it is.

In the Utilities folder, I have: Terminal, Printer Setup Utility, Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, Grab, and iTattle. Whenever I need to wipe a CD/DVD-RW I can. It takes less than a second to open Disk Utility. When I want to know my network info, iTattle comes open in the blink of an eye.

In the Fun, Small Stuff folder: Stickies, America's Army, a URL to www.macminute.com, and 3DBlur.
Just some random things that I want to keep accessible, but not necessarily categorized.

In the Essentials folder: Discus RE 2.54 (for CD/DVD labels), Send to Handheld droplet for my Palm, Documents to Go version 6, Toast Titanium 5.2.3, Virtual PC 6.1, and System Preferences.

Much like the Apple Menu of old, but much nicer to use. To tell the folders apart, I set their icons to a custom icon. Example: I found some alternate icon sets for OS X and used the iMovie one for "iApps and More", the Terminal one for "Utilities". I found a truck I fancied and that became an icon. The "Essentials" folder has a scientist holding a clipboard. The rest have custom icons too, but I don't care to name them right now.

Right now, I just realized I am connected to my iMac a lot. So that icon goes into the dock, right side too.

Use a 3rd party app to make the dock go to the top of the screen, make it hide, I don't care. But I like mine!

BTW, I am using a 12" PowerBook @ 1024x768 pixels. I set it to the minimum size and let it hide. It works out nicely that way, because everything fits and it is perfectly clear what icon I want, in the order I want. No alphabetized lists-- I want it the way I like it!


Dang... my first real rant! Long, anger-provoked... wow...

 

[jsalzer]

Size Matters

What a great thread.

Well, I do use FruitMenu and ASM (App Switcher Menu) to give me back the functionality of the old classic Apple Menu and the App Switcher in the upper right corner.

The apps, docs, and folders I use the most are right there in the Apple Menu. I also have the entire Applications Menu there so that I can quickly access those apps I don't frequently use.

While the fact that I'm just used to that setup and that it's worked for me for 10 years has something to do with it, the real holdout for me going to the Dock is that I'm on an 800x600 resolution 13-inch screen. I just don't have room for the dock. If I had the space to spare, sure, I'd happily use the dock, but I don't think I'd give up FruitMenu or ASM.

Letting Finder decide which app to open when you're opening a document is natural, but you can't always do that - in particular when you're looking to create a NEW document - so that isn't the answer.

The fact that the OS launches apps, I understand. The fact that the apple menu (in its current incarnation) gives access to system-wide events, I understand. But, I don't see the connection that because the system can do something, it should be in the apple menu. OSX can do lots of things, but I don't expect them all to be runable from the apple menu.

So, I guess I'm in the weird position of thinking that the original poster is wrong that it SHOULD be that way, even though I, personally, like it that way and wish that Apple would go back to it.

Oh, and I'm OK with the little icons in the apple menu. While I'm mostly looking for the alphabetized text, the visual reference is useful (even if more the color of the icon than the detail.)