The BS about "smartphones requires a data plan"

[BeyondtheTech]

What, no response to my post, BeyondtheTech? Wonder why.

LOL, sorry, thelatinist. As you might have noticed, the thread took on a life of its own, I'm still reading everyone's posts. I browsed the word "amortization" and percentage and thought of when I was dealing with mortgage headaches a while back, so I skipped ahead.

I never talked about subsidized phones. It basically boils down to strictly talking about grabbing a phone from CraigsList or a hand-me-down iPhone 3G/3GS and giving it to my kids or their grandparents and tacking them on my family plan for $10 a month more, but just without the data.

Their TOS specifically states that they can screw you at anytime, even if you don't use cellular data. If the phone is paid in full and they won't use data, why charge us for it? The iPhone is still quite capable as a phone, a media player, and a gaming device. And, the iPhone, even without data, can be used with the cellular triangulation technology used in AT&T's FamilyMap service to determine the location of your child and/or the phone.

 

[Bdubb]

If you use an iPhone on the AT&T network you have to have a data plan. Even if you buy the phone outright.

I totally see where the OP is coming from, and I wont reiterate the obvious reasons why ATT makes Data plan mandatory on Smartphones, but I will tell you a very simple work around.

if you don't already have a basic, non-smartphone voice plan with ATT, ( the voice plan you wish to have without the Data) buy one, with the cheapest and most basic phone (these phones are usually offered for free with contracts)

Next, simply buy a second hand, or (even new) unlocked (or unlockable) iPhone from another third party (actually it doesn't even matter if you buy it from ATT even at full cost, as long as you can unlock it)

First call ATT and ask them to block access to there EDGE or 3G (APN) network on your cheap basic phone. they should gladly comply...Now take out the SIM from your non-smart phone that you got from ATT with a basic voice plan and put it in your unlocked iPhone and off you go.

keep your non-smart phone as back up in the drawer or sell it.

Once you do this... IMIE or not ATT cannot do jack swat about charging you for data, they are not the CIA, they will not track you down and find out that you are using a smartphone without a data, even if they did, no way in hell they can impose data charges on you if you don't have data plan initially in your contract... the key word here is "Contract" how could they charge you for data if you never signed up for one and you even told them to turn it off ( block it)

this may sound a bit complicated or even costly, but it's non of the above.

 

[BeyondtheTech]

I totally see where the OP is coming from, and I wont reiterate the obvious reasons why ATT makes Data plan mandatory on Smartphones, but I will tell you a very simple work around.

if you don't already have a basic, non-smartphone voice plan with ATT, ( the voice plan you wish to have without the Data) buy one, with the cheapest and most basic phone (these phones are usually offered for free with contracts)

Next, simply buy a second hand, or (even new) unlocked (or unlockable) iPhone from another third party (actually it doesn't even matter if you buy it from ATT even at full cost, as long as you can unlock it)

First call ATT and ask them to block access to there EDGE or 3G (APN) network on your cheap basic phone. they should gladly comply...Now take out the SIM from your non-smart phone that you got from ATT with a basic voice plan and put it in your unlocked iPhone and off you go.

keep your non-smart phone as back up in the drawer or sell it.

Once you do this... IMIE or not ATT cannot do jack swat about charging you for data, they are not the CIA, they will not track you down and find out that you are using a smartphone without a data, even if they did, no way in hell they can impose data charges on you if you don't have data plan initially in your contract... the key word here is "Contract" how could they charge you for data if you never signed up for one and you even told them to turn it off ( block it)

this may sound a bit complicated or even costly, but it's non of the above.

Not really an unknown workaround, but the moment you switch your SIM card back into your iPhone and start using it, the iPhone's IMEI will show up in their system, and that gives them free reign to slip a data plan right back in.

 

[BigCanoe]

My son has a regular (non smartphone) phone with AT&T for the last year. When I get the 4, I was hoping to move his sim (data blocked) into the 3 and let him use that as his phone without a data plan.

 

[alent1234]

My son has a regular (non smartphone) phone with AT&T for the last year. When I get the 4, I was hoping to move his sim (data blocked) into the 3 and let him use that as his phone without a data plan.

howard forums has a huge thread how AT&T is scanning for this and automatically adding data plans to accounts

 

[SAD*FACED*CLOWN]

howard forums has a huge thread how AT&T is scanning for this and automatically adding data plans to accounts

it's real simple...once they add it call them and have them remove it, and they will if you ARE NOT UNDER A CURRENT DATA CONTRACT....you CAN use the iPhone as a dumb phone if you want but data will be blocked and you won't be able to use AT&T wifi hotspots for free anymore with that device

 

[profets]

I hear people say this but then AT&T can automatically switch your data on if they know you're on a smartphone on their network. It's a hit or miss plan.

But I agree with the OP. Of course, AT&T couldn't sell you the phone as cheap as they can without a data plan, but I'd still pay $399.99 for a no-data required iPhone.

However, with this new $15.00 data plan, it seems easier to jusifty the requirement of data. Yes, $15.00 is a complete rip-off but for people who are immersed in WiFi daily, its a better price to pay than the previous $30.00 data plan.

I just don't get how an 32GB iPod touch sells for $299.99 yet a 16GB iPhone 3GS sells for $599.99 (retail). I can't seem to grasp how antennas and less HD space is near $300.00. A non-commitment iPhone should be $499.99 at the most.

I completely agree.

Okay well figure that the 3G antenna is $130 like on the iPad. So that makes it $430. GPS chipset, camera, bigger speaker, mic, compass and more. It adds up, but of course Apple is making a great profit on each device. They could say it is 899/999 retail, still won't stop people from buying it.

First off, Apple upping the iPad 3G price by $130 is just a cash grab. the cellular radio in the iPad has a cost of $20.

The 599/699 prices are pretty inflated. Its really part of a bigger problem with the cellular model in north america. All these phone prices are badly inflated so that the subsidized prices by carriers look much more attractive.

 

[BeyondtheTech]

it's real simple...once they add it call them and have them remove it, and they will if you ARE NOT UNDER A CURRENT DATA CONTRACT....you CAN use the iPhone as a dumb phone if you want but data will be blocked and you won't be able to use AT&T wifi hotspots for free anymore with that device

I guess people will give it the old college try, but when they get charged by AT&T and they call back to complain, should they say that some sad-faced clown on a forum told them it supposed to be okay?

 

[Bdubb]

Not really an unknown workaround, but the moment you switch your SIM card back into your iPhone and start using it, the iPhone's IMEI will show up in their system, and that gives them free reign to slip a data plan right back in.

I know this work around wasn't a mystery...just thought I throw in my two cents.
I highly doubt that they will go behind your back and turn on data without your consent especially if you told them to turn it off (block it) and Remember with this method as far as they know you are on your samsung turtle shell, flip phone.

I am just curious... how? on what conditions they will link your SIM card to a smartphone (iPhone)?? can you please give me a senario on how that's possible?

I'm guessing they have a system set up that once they tally up your monthly bill and track all the calls you make every month they will also track the IMEI of the phone those calls were made from? and they are gonna see that it was made from a smartphone so they will bill you a data plan?? I highly doubt that's how it works... but feel free to enlighten me on this if you can ( no sarcasm, seriously)

EDIT:

howard forums has a huge thread how AT&T is scanning for this and automatically adding data plans to accounts

think that answers my question, that just sounds intrusive and even a bit evil, if you ask me

 

[thelatinist]

I never talked about subsidized phones. It basically boils down to strictly talking about grabbing a phone from CraigsList or a hand-me-down iPhone 3G/3GS and giving it to my kids or their grandparents and tacking them on my family plan for $10 a month more, but just without the data.

If the phone is paid in full and they won't use data, why charge us for it?

Actually, you denied that AT&T recovered their subsidy through the data plan. I was responding to that denial, which simply does not reflect reality.

As for why AT&T doesn't allow unsubsidized phones to avoid data charges, that seems pretty obvious to me. If they admit that the data plan includes an equipment subsidy, they would pretty much be forced to itemize the data cost and equipment cost. Then they this would expose themselves to all sorts of scrutiny (and probably regulation) of what would amount to a loan. I doubt AT&T has any desire to become a telephone financing company making unsecured loans on cell phones. Besides that, such a practice would put them at a competitive disadvantage with respect to other carriers, all of whom would continue to offer "free" and "subsidized" phones and hide their subsidies in their other fees.

You are absolutely right that you are getting a raw deal as an unsubsidized user. I never claimed otherwise. That doesn't mean that AT&T can do what you suggest without making major changes in their business model that would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

Incidentally, I would suggest that the fairest way to price cell phone service would be to do away with subsidies, contracts, exclusivity agreements and packages so that markets could set prices for services and everyone would pay for their phones and their own usage. Imagine if a phone company offered such a plan, though; how many people do you think would prefer high up-front costs and the risks of variable monthly bills to the current subsidy system? Market pressures simply won't allow phone companies to make such changes; it would require regulation. Can you imagine any lawmaker wanting to explain to his constituents that getting a "free" phone was bad for them (however true it may be)?

 

[Revelation78]

There's some false information on here....


AT&T DOES NOT RECOUP SUBSIDIES THROUGH THE DATA PLAN.

The data plan covers data and is mostly PROFIT. Subsidies are obtained through the regular line, that's also why you sign two year contracts. That's also why on family lines the primary is the only line that gets a yearly upgrade; the other lines are on 24 month upgrades. If the data plan recovered subsidies, then all iPhones would be on a 12 month upgrade cycle.

Now here's another example for your guys...

If the data plan was used to recoup the subsidy, if you added a line onto your account/used someone else's you couldn't use the upgrade on your line and cancel the data on the line that you used for the upgrade.

Before anyone wants to argue with me, I used to work for AT&T and I know what I say is in fact - fact.

 

[lasuther]

Buy a $600 iPhone off contract and use it on TMobile with no data.

Or you could buy it on contract for $200 and just use the $15 data plan. That seems like a much better plan, and it is cheaper over 2 years.

 

[Revelation78]

Buy a $600 iPhone off contract and use it on TMobile with no data.

Or you could buy it on contract for $200 and just use the $15 data plan. That seems like a much better plan, and it is cheaper over 2 years.

You can get data on T-Mobile, Edge just not 3G. T-Mobile also offers a cheaper unlimited data plan.

 

[JReinn]

I can understand that some people wouldn't want data, but for me an iPhone/smartphone without data is like a car without gas.
Just my $0.02

 

[Mlrollin91]

First off, Apple upping the iPad 3G price by $130 is just a cash grab. the cellular radio in the iPad has a cost of $20.

The 599/699 prices are pretty inflated. Its really part of a bigger problem with the cellular model in north america. All these phone prices are badly inflated so that the subsidized prices by carriers look much more attractive.

Well yeah, I know it doesn't cost them near 130 for the radio. But thats not what I was saying, I was saying what they sell it for, so therefore that bumps the 300 dollars for the touch right to 430 just for the radio.

 

[BeyondtheTech]

There's some false information on here....

AT&T DOES NOT RECOUP SUBSIDIES THROUGH THE DATA PLAN.

The data plan covers data and is mostly PROFIT. Subsidies are obtained through the regular line, that's also why you sign two year contracts. That's also why on family lines the primary is the only line that gets a yearly upgrade; the other lines are on 24 month upgrades. If the data plan recovered subsidies, then all iPhones would be on a 12 month upgrade cycle.

Ya, I used a line to get someone a BlackBerry at the fully subsidized price, and they never even added the data plan to that line, so I can see how that would be correct.

I can understand that some people wouldn't want data, but for me an iPhone/smartphone without data is like a car without gas.
Just my $0.02

I explained it previously, as it's great as having only one device to carry around instead of a crappy flip-phone and a portable media player and a Nintendo DSi. Some people just don't need data. Just because it's there, doesn't mean it HAS to be used. Besides, have you ever seen a phone that's easier to use and still has all those features?

I remember when my I first got the iPhone 2G and my non-techie wife was saying she'll stick with her RAZR. We went to the movies and during the trailer, they advised everyone to silence their phones. After she wandered around the RAZR's menu and settings option, I walked my wife through a "faster method" by having her close the RAZR, press the correct side button, scroll through the profiles until you see Vibrate, then press the side button again. Then, I showed her my iPhone 2G and flicked the side switch to vibe. She was sold.