The current lineup of alternative energy vehicles

[Phil Of Mac]

I think with ethanol, it takes more fuel to harvest it that you end up with. Hardly an economical solution, unless you're in the fuel or agricultural industry

Or that might be biodiesel. There's some type of clean-burning fuel that works that way.

 

[Frohickey]

I've heard the same thing about ethanol, that it takes more energy to produce than the energy you get from burning it.

I'm not sure if thats real though... I mean, man has been making ethyl alcohol since someone left a bottle of grape juice out.

Could be in the purification process, maybe.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

It's definitely the purification process. I mean, it's one thing to make liquor, or even beer. (And beer is $5.62 a gallon, bought by the keg...not exactly economical fuel.) But to purify the alcohol would be even more difficult, since most liquors are 100, 120 proof at most.

 

[Ugg]

Methanol/ethanol is only a short term solution. The energy it takes to sow, harvest, convert and the oil-based fertilizers and pesticides that are needed to grow the green stuff makes it non-economically viable. The only way that it is appealing now is due to federal price supports for American farmers. If a reasonably fair market approach were applied, it would be twice as expensive as it is. Plus, it is really based on the idea of grain surpluses, and they are dependent upon weather and world demand amongst others factors.

The IDEA of bio fuel always appealed to me until I looked into it and when I realized all the above, well, it's still a good idea on a limited local level but not for a national energy plan.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Well, it makes the agricultural industry more money. Many national policies are designed toward that end

 

[Frohickey]

Oil, geothermal, nuclear, solar, wind, tidal/hydro.

The first 3 stores pretty good, while the last 3 are pretty much transient energy sources.

Oil and nuclear are not tied to a specific geographical location, as soon as you extract it.

 

[pseudobrit]

Biodiesel's cheap to grow (veggie oils), cheap to crack (lye and methanol, the methanol is recoverable, the lye becomes glycerol -- soap), the infrastructure is already in place (diesel fuel), vehicles need no modification, it's much cleaner burning than regular diesel and has a higher cetane rating (like octane; but it translates to more power potential in the fuel)...

the only reason it doesn't take off is because the small batches currently produced do not allow for it to match the price point of petrodiesel and the national supply depots where it's available are few and far between.

That said, it runs great in my TDI!

 

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Frohickey
Oil, geothermal, nuclear, solar, wind, tidal/hydro.

The first 3 stores pretty good, while the last 3 are pretty much transient energy sources.

Oil and nuclear are not tied to a specific geographical location, as soon as you extract it.

Neither are the others when converted to electricity.

 

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Neither are the others when converted to electricity.

Electricity is the grid... you don't need to move it. It moves itself.

I was talking about primary sources of energy. Electricity is a secondary source, unless you start putting up lightning rods all over the place and can count on regularly scheduled lightning strikes.

I thought that methanol was made from petroleum, because this is the most economical way to do it.