The dark side is taking over me

[mahashel]

For the super-intense MMORPG (EQ2, SWGalaxies, etc..) and huge framerate frag-fests, you currently need a PC. Sad but true.
I sincerely hope that Apple makes my dreams come true, and delivers jaw-dropping muscle to their professional line by year's-end. However, until then, a PC is the best option for the game types listed above.
Build a ridiculous Athlon rig, put it in an Antec Sonata case (very quiet), buy bluetooth keyboard/mouse, and stash the thing behind a DVI-enabled high-def TV. It's what I do when I feel like treading down the dark path.
I have my office with the G4 PM in it when I need to get some work done, and I have the PC in my living room when I need to get *nothing* done.

 

[Fredstar]

If everyone who complained about the gaming situation on OSX actually bought a few OSX games, encouraged people to buy Power Macs for a gaming rig then we would start to see a nice improvement in gaming on the Mac platform.
Better drivers from the gfx companies would be made with better optimization, more games would appear because we would stimulate demand and make a gaming market and perhaps Apple will push money into Open GL 2.0 development.
Right now the situation is just getting worse with people just blurbing out Macs aren't for gaming everytime a new person asks.
I am not really a gamer at all, never have been on the PC before i got my iMac and only really played games on my Xbox/PS2 but i am kinda getting more interested at playing games at high res and the graphics of the consoles aren't close yet, i am just waiting to see what the XBOX2 and PS3 brings to us in terms of graphics.

 

[topgunn]

I just configured an AMD3400+ system with 400mhz FSB 1GB DDR400 ram PCI-E with Radeon X800XT 256Mb RAM for a whooping 900 bucks.

NINE HUNDRED BUCKS!!!

This sounded too cheap to me so I went over to newegg and tried to find out what I could/would get it for.

You listed three items in your post; CPU, RAM, & GPU. Taking newegg's absolute lowest price (refurbished CPU & GPU and cheapest RAM, highly not recommended) you get $195, $70, & $332. Already you are up to $600. That leaves $300 for a case, power supply, motherboard, CD/DVD, HDD, fans, keyboard & mouse. Assume the fans will come with the case or something and the keyboard & mouse will be reused. That doesn't leave much room to include quality components. And thats putting it together yourself.

By my estimate, to build this system right with quailty parts but not going all out you would spend about $1,200. And I would rather have a socket 939 Athlon instead of the socket 754.

Edit: By the way, for me to UPDATE my current PC to a similar machine that I have considered would cost $900. Thats reusing my case, PS, HDD, RAM and buying a 3500+ ($275), new x800xt @ 520MHz ($450), Asus socket 939 A8N motherboard ($125), and I need a new DVD writer ($50).

 

[Barham]

That's another issue that is a problem. Right now is the height of the PC gaming cycle. As the current generation of consoles get long in the tooth (see your reference to high-res), PC's become more popular for gaming. When the new consoles arrive, demand for PC gaming performance will fall because for the first couple years of a console's life, it WILL out perform any computer graphically. Apple will most likely continue to ignore gaming until the next cycle. It's the same as the laptop market. We don't need marginal increases, we need a BIG ass increase followed by continued incremental support.

 

[topgunn]

I was just reminded of why I choose to have Powermac as my main computer as opposed to my PC. I was reading through newegg's reviews of the Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe board and I am ammused by all of the 5-egg reviews that say something like:

ASUS ROCKS!!...This motherboard is all that and a bag of chips! You'll need to flash to the newest BIOS to alleviate "CPU Fan Failure" message and all sorts of other kinks, but with that fix you're golden.

or:

Great Board, slightly buggy chipset
This is an excellent board for the Nforce4 chipset....it has the best options of all the SLI boards and setup is easy....it doesn't have as nice overclocking features as the DFI board though. I switched from a DFI board to this one after trying both. The chipset is buggy though, with sound issues in ALL the SLI boards I have used. You will get a blue screen with "Machine Check Exception" occasionally if you use a sound card, (I use Audigy 2 7.1) and check out the onboard sound if you use 5.1 speakers. it is great sound, when it works. It works fine with Windows Media Player and PowerDVD, but try winamp, games, etc, and you will have 2.1 only for some reason. After numerous hours of tinkering with drivers, config settings and tech calls, the problem was not resolved...multiple Nforce4 boards from multiple maufacturers. It's a chipset problem....btw, onboard frontside audio works fine. Other than that, this board rocks and is very fast.

I am a long time PC and Apple user and I worked my way through college as a network admin/department tech support. All of the ins and outs of the windows/pc world are second nature to me but why would you want to mess with all of this when you don't have to? I choose the alternative.

 

[jeffgtr]

I built my last two pc's and let me tell you it would have been cheaper to buy a ready made box, but I was picky about the motherboard etc. I'm going to have to keep my pc and remote desktop to it to test out asp.net web stuff, but beyond that I'm through (for now at least) with the PC. I can be my own technical support but really I'm tired of it. I suppose if gaming is your top priority and you enjoy tinkering with your pc and solving problems (it can be fun, really there is something satisfying about picking out the parts, assemblying it, and seeing it boot to bios) the pc is the way to go. I haven't had many problems with viruses and spyware, but I do have a subscription to Mcaffee that updates automatically, spyware protection that updates automatically, and I apply most of the updates for xp. About once a year I have to reformat my system drive and reinstall everything. For me this is only a minor hassle because I'm fairly technically apt, but for the average person owning a pc would be a huge headache in my opinion. With that said, I'm switching back to mac as my main machine as soon as a check arrives for a project I just finished. The only decision for me is powermac or imac.

 

[mwpeters8182]

I have a cheap ($500) PC Box that performs very well. I use it alongside my PowerBook, and I'm glad I bought it. The whole "good luck with viruses", "enjoy the spyware", etc arguments really are crap, if you know how to use your computer. The combination of firefox and a decent AV program has kept my computer problem-free.

That said, I do enjoy many of the features of Tiger more than XP, but XP does have some advantages, such as speed of the UI (which Tiger fixes quite a bit, but there's still work to be done).

MP

 

[jsnuff1]

thanks for all the comments guys...im still deciding but it seems like ill go with PC gaming system for now, and then buy an ibook or powerbook before school starts again next fall. Now I defiantly have lots of PC research to do and find out exactly what I want to get. Any dual platform users out there direct me to good gaming sites/custom PC sites?

 

[Demon Hunter]

I don't think you're crazy, just install Linux!

 

[ijimk]

just think of all that service pack 2 crap and virus crap you have to do on windoze.

Look dude i feel your pain with gaming but seriously you want through virsus after virus on PC and get your game files corrupt because some (%$#@) on the other end thinks it kool to make your PC crash...

I for one will never go back to Windoze...

The only thing that microsoft has is maybe that new xbox 360, it atleast has my attention and i will see how it does after 6 months to year after release...

 

[efoto]

newegg is always good for parts searches and usually good prices.
There is some butterly site, .....what was it called, ahh yes, MonarchPC or something like that. I don't have a link off hand, and don't really feel like searching for it, but I'm 98% confident that was the name.

You can read up on hardware @ Tom's, they usually have decent reviews.

Otherwise this is always a good alternative too

 

[kenneth]

The next computer I get, is going to be a Mac. I don't play that many games but I am not going to make the switch until I have played The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Just take a look at those screenshots!
I am really looking forward to it, but it is going to be probably for PC only.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_overview.htm

 

[weg]

checkmate.

OS X is the best thing about using a Mac...the powermacs are good where they are for now, but by years end i hope they will have been much improved

Probably not. In 5 years Apple will use benchmarks that run Mac OS X on x86 architecture in an emulation and then they will claim that the PowerPC runs Mac OS X much faster than a x86 ;-) (therefore, it's the fastest computer of the world!)

 

[wrldwzrd89]

I never really understood this whole drive towards 3D games anyway - 98% of them don't appeal to me. Therefore, 98% of the games I play on my Mac are 2D (and hardly stress the GPU) - the one exception is RealMYST, and that runs great, even at the highest settings.

Those that mentioned the huge disconnect between gaming on consoles and gaming on computers make a completely valid point - one that affects me, since I'm a huge fan of level editors.

Now that I've got that off my chest...what makes a Mac a Mac is, of course, the Mac OS. There are three major reasons why most of these 3D games never get ported:

1. Developers neglecting to plan ahead for a Mac port, and therefore using Windows-only technologies that don't transfer well or at all.
2. DirectX vs. OpenGL - enough said.
3. Microsoft's refusal to endorse and support OpenGL, especially when they have done just that in the past.

 

[jsnuff1]

This sounded too cheap to me so I went over to newegg and tried to find out what I could/would get it for.

You listed three items in your post; CPU, RAM, & GPU. Taking newegg's absolute lowest price (refurbished CPU & GPU and cheapest RAM, highly not recommended) you get $195, $70, & $332. Already you are up to $600. That leaves $300 for a case, power supply, motherboard, CD/DVD, HDD, fans, keyboard & mouse. Assume the fans will come with the case or something and the keyboard & mouse will be reused. That doesn't leave much room to include quality components. And thats putting it together yourself.

By my estimate, to build this system right with quailty parts but not going all out you would spend about $1,200. And I would rather have a socket 939 Athlon instead of the socket 754.

Edit: By the way, for me to UPDATE my current PC to a similar machine that I have considered would cost $900. Thats reusing my case, PS, HDD, RAM and buying a 3500+ ($275), new x800xt @ 520MHz ($450), Asus socket 939 A8N motherboard ($125), and I need a new DVD writer ($50).

Hard to believe but here is whats on my list right now

AMD 3200+ $204
Gigabyte K8VT890 PCI-E Motherboard $98
Saphire Radeon X800PRO 256MB $252
WesternDigital Raptor 10000RPM 36GB $120
Corsair XMS 1GB(2x512) DDR400 $145
LG DVD-ROM $22
Roswell case w/ 400W PS $50

Grand total $893...crazy and these are top of the line components...except for the mobo i dont know much about these and i picked it at random.

Ive been going back and forth with my decision(ive been using macs for 10 years now...never used a PC before and its quite hard to make this change) but this is just beyond crazy this much power for 900 bucks is unheard of in the mac world.

Plus I have never built a PC system before, and i love doing stuff like this so it will be a fun experience.

Does that list look good? What else will I need? Im assuming that cabels and such come with the individual components?

 

[SeRgIo_42]

I really do not get it.

Why people keep trying to compare hardware when it is the
software that makes the difference ?

At the time your blizzo-hertz are reaching the microwave range,
your crap software is rebooting three times a week (I am optimistic).
On the other hand, yes, the PM update was awful...but how reliable OSX is ?

I would suggest you to get the PC and install linux or even better :
get a Sun Solaris but forget all games. BTW, I advocate the PC hardware
but I can not live under Micro$oft domain anymore.

 

[beatle888]

Have fun with XP. Hopefully you don't lose everything to a virus ...

ive been a mac user all my LIFE. i have stock and want to see apple succeed.
HOWEVER. your statement makes me shake my head. there are so many people that arent bothered with windows performance. XP is actually from what i hear...very stable and works fine.

so take XP and its more than adiquate abilities and add longhorn. if you ask me apple needs to kick some butt. XP is already VERY usable and longhorn could be even better. we know the technologies are. its just how they implement them, and with all the hardware offerings out there for desktop, and mobile/PDA/media offerings....well, apple better stay/get on the ball.

 

[jsnuff1]

I really do not get it.

Why people keep trying to compare hardware when it is the
software that makes the difference ?

At the time your blizzo-hertz are reaching the microwave range,
your crap software is rebooting three times a week (I am optimistic).
On the other hand, yes, the PM update was awful...but how reliable OSX is ?

I would suggest you to get the PC and install linux or even better :
get a Sun Solaris but forget all games. BTW, I advocate the PC hardware
but I can not live under Micro$oft domain anymore.

This thread has really nothing to do with software...im building a system for games period. I dont care if a gerbils brain is the operating system as long as the games run blazing fast. Software does not make a diffrence for games. If gaming was not a factor in this decision I wouldnt even THINK about getting anything other than a mac.

 

[DavidLeblond]

With the specs they're touting for the next-gen consoles, spending big money on a "gaming rig" PC just doesn't seem all that wise to me... maybe I'm just getting old. With the amount of money you can spend on a decent gaming rig, you can spend the same amount on a game console, surround sound, and a decent HD television. I think I'd pick the game console, who cares if it doesn't play Half Life 2?

 

[mahashel]

Does that list look good? What else will I need? Im assuming that cabels and such come with the individual components?

Looks decent. It's not bleeding-edge, but should run most current games without a hiccup.
You may have already verified this, but make sure your Radeon is PCI-E. Can't imagine the pain of buying a PCI-E Mboard and accidentally ordering an AGP graphics card for it.
The only thing I would change in that lineup is the case. Over the years, I've discovered the value of a high-quality case. I'm a fan of Antec cases. They're quiet, rugged, and look neat.. they are more than $50 though.
I use a lot of Gigabyte motherboards, and have had great luck so long as you're careful. They're pretty tough, but trust me, you don't want to end up talking to their support team (or lack thereof). Can't beat the price/performance on 'em though.
Viruses aren't actually that big a deal if you load an alternative browser to surf with (though I wouldn't recommend "surfing" on a gaming PC), toss the thing behind a decent firewalled router, and lock all your ports down with a firewall (ZoneAlarm is decent, and free!).

As far as games are concerned, I'd love to ditch my PC and go all-Mac, but gaming is still important to me (maybe I'll grow out of it in another 30 years). My favorite games are NOT available on Mac. I've even gone to Fan-Fests for some of my games, stood in front of developer forums and asked, "why won't you port this to the Mac??" They shrugged, made mention of 3% marketshare, and changed the subject. While that really ticked me off, I guess I currently don't have much of a choice. $1000 PC runs this stuff without a hitch, and until we Mac-sters hit a critical mass (guessing 10% market?) the vast majority of 3D gaming entertainment will remain on PCs.. Sucks, I know.

 

[BKKloppenborg]

ive been a mac user all my LIFE. i have stock and want to see apple succeed.
HOWEVER. your statement makes me shake my head. there are so many people that arent bothered with windows performance. XP is actually from what i hear...very stable and works fine.

so take XP and its more than adiquate abilities and add longhorn. if you ask me apple needs to kick some butt. XP is already VERY usable and longhorn could be even better. we know the technologies are. its just how they implement them, and with all the hardware offerings out there for desktop, and mobile/PDA/media offerings....well, apple better stay/get on the ball.

i have Windows XP and its ok, i still hate it Viruese golore running THREE anti-viruses on my computer just to keep it clean, IE always freezes and crashes alot, "Windows Updates" make the computer run slower and acually crashed my computer many times... Other then that i guess its ok if you like alot of errors...

 

[topgunn]

Hard to believe but here is whats on my list right now

AMD 3200+ $204
Gigabyte K8VT890 PCI-E Motherboard $98
Saphire Radeon X800PRO 256MB $252
WesternDigital Raptor 10000RPM 36GB $120
Corsair XMS 1GB(2x512) DDR400 $145
LG DVD-ROM $22
Roswell case w/ 400W PS $50

Grand total $893...crazy and these are top of the line components...except for the mobo i dont know much about these and i picked it at random.

Ive been going back and forth with my decision(ive been using macs for 10 years now...never used a PC before and its quite hard to make this change) but this is just beyond crazy this much power for 900 bucks is unheard of in the mac world.

Plus I have never built a PC system before, and i love doing stuff like this so it will be a fun experience.

Does that list look good? What else will I need? Im assuming that cabels and such come with the individual components?

You originally said x800xt which is considerably more than the x800pro. that alone makes a $100 difference. I am not familiar with the particular motherboard but Gigabyte typically makes solid stuff. I personally only buy Abit or Asus. The case would worry me, I typically do not trust no name power supplies that come standard with cases, espeically when it is $50 for the pair. I usually spend at least that on the power supply alone. Again, thats just me.

 

[pulsewidth947]

Get it.

Thats a great deal

Get it. Enjoy it. Use it. Save up for a Mac Mini to complement it. Get yourself some antivirus (avg, adaware, install them and forget about them. They can update themselves so you dont have to realise you got them running.

Theres a lot of snobbery on here, the same as a windows forum. Just get what you can afford and use it. I got AMD 3200+, 1.5GB Crucial, Asus A7N8X-E mobo, and sata hd's.. sweet!

I really havent had any real problems will windows since M.E.

 

[SeRgIo_42]

This thread has really nothing to do with software...im building a system for games period. I dont care if a gerbils brain is the operating system as long as the games run blazing fast. Software does not make a diffrence for games. If gaming was not a factor in this decision I wouldnt even THINK about getting anything other than a mac.

Others have already said this but ... 900 bucks for a gaming machine ?
Even the new Xbox360 is not going to cost 500.00.

Anyway, it is your money. Do whatever you wanna and be happy.

 

[shadowmoses]

Man i got sucked into the same trap and built myself a little PC biostar iDeq with 2400+ sempron 512mb 200gbHD etc for less than a mac mini, after a few weeks of using windows XP i am sick of it just so annoying when i am used to OSX,Its unstable, wireless is crap, looks crap, viruses spyware etc!!!!

since i have reverted back to my powermac g4 and the PC is dumped in the corner i pla to sell it on ebay when i have some time, anyway the darkside is tempting but once your in you will want out,

Peace