The endless question about getting the new base 8-core i7 iMac 27" or waiting for Apple Silicon? Audio (external instruments) 70% + 3D Modeling 20%)

[Paratriplel]

I’m thinking about getting an iMac 27” top tier (Intel i7) with no BTO.

Will use it 70% audio production (recording external instruments and using some third party plugins but not virtual instruments) 20 % 3D modeling (Fusion 360) and 10% other office stuff / surfing the web.

I was all set on ordering the iMac as soon as the update came but then came WWDC and Apple announced that they will transition to Apple Silicon.
This news made me confused because I need a new iMac now but I’ve hold out since the beginning of this year with my MacBook Pro 15” (2,5 GHz, from 2015) but now I’ve noticed it seems it’s battery has swollen (lid doesn’t close entire y) but battery health says Normal and it has only gotten 135 cycles by now.

Maybe I’m just making up an excuse to have a reason to get the new iMac.
I mean I could just change the battery and continue using it but I feel more like changing it and selling it to finance the new iMac.
I actually got the iMac 2019 version with 511 GB SSD but it had issue running Fusion 360 and crashed at least 5 times during the time I had it (4 weeks) and I felt it wasn’t such a big update as I expected it to be so I returned it but had already gotten myself 32 GB (2x16) GB of ram that I still have laying around watering for the new iMac, but here I am all confused about getting the 2020 version or waiting for Apple Silicon.

So I guess I’m actually trying to figure out what advantages that waiting for AS would give but also taking in consideration how long you have to wait to get something that is similar in performance with the current i7 iMac 27" and will most interfaces just work on Apple Silicon and is it expected to be a delay before developers have updated their drivers (I'm talking about developers as UA, RME, MOTU and Presonus).

Also would like to get a new audio interface but the once I'm set on is from ~2015 (MOTU's audio interfaces and I'm a bit afraid they won't work with their TB2 connections (even with Apple's adapter) so maybe it's a good idea to delay that purchase, I guess? It's just that the audio interface business seems to stand still except for UA's new interfaces and it's exactly those I want to move away from.


So I'd appreciate any advice here about what to do.
I can wait roughly a half year but I actually would need a new computer now and I'd love a stationary since I'll not move it around.
I already bought 32 GB's of RAM for almost $200 (when I got the 2019 version) that's just laying around, should I just try to sell it for $80 or should I go for the new iMac 27" 8-core i7?

Feel like I'd really like to go for it since I've waited since 2019 but I guess I'm a bit worried about buyers remorse (I wouldn't care if something better comes out really just if I realise I made a really stupid misstake getting the 2020 iMac instead of waiting just few months for AS) but I am suspecting I'll be able to sell the iMac when the time comes without loosing more than 10% value/year or something similar and worth mentioning I'll be able to get it through the educational store next few months but not in half a year (probably, I just lost my job and took a course) and that also means getting the AirPods which is a really nice plus.

If I don't act on my guts and instead wait for Apple Silicon how long would people expect (I mean just making a logical guess) me to wait to be able to get something comparable? I mean never mind the screen but the rest of the computer.

Buyers remorse will set in if I the Apple Silicon Macbook is just as powerful as the iMac from the start, has few bugs from the get go and if it would allow me to get an Apple Pencil and start drawing on the screen (just something I'd love to do, even considering getting an iPad Pro just to be able to but I'm trying to be responsible here..)... OR if the iMac comes out really early next year and has a 32" screen but it's so unlikely I don't even hope for it anymore (has it even been any rumours suggesting Apple doing something like that? Isn't it just Apple releasing a 24" that made us all assume a 30 or 32" would come?


Also would like to know if anyone has connected their 2020 iMac to an external screen, does it handle it fine? Does it make the it heat up like the MBP's do?
Any actually (user) confirmed issues with the iMac 2020 that hasn't yet been acknowledge and solved?

Sorry, this got really long and even longer when I tried to trim it down. I'm so sorry about that. I just have gone over this in my head a billion times without any good conclusion since I haven't been able to follow or understood everything audio related to AS confirmed news

 

[pldelisle]

lso would like to know if anyone has connected their 2020 iMac to an external screen, does it handle it fine?

Yes.

Does it make the it heat up like the MBP's do?

Not that I'm aware of.

Any actually (user) confirmed issues with the iMac 2020 that hasn't yet been acknowledge and solved?

5700XT has a glitch which is software related. I've seen nothing else.

I expect AS iMac with comparable performance to the actual iMac to appear next fall. Not before.

Rule of thumb : if you use specialized software or hardware, take Intel iMac. If not, the AS will be 100% usable at launch.

 

[Menthol]

I am going through some of the same mental gymnastics that you are, and for what it's worth, I'm going to get a 2020 iMac.

I'm using a Mac Pro 5,1 and need to upgrade. I can only run High Sierra, which doesn't mesh smoothly in iCloud with my Catalina-running 2020 MacBook Pro or my Catalina-running iMac at work, so that's one incentive.

I do audio also, and like you am also looking to upgrade my interface to a MOTU TB2 (the 828es). I really don't think the TB3-->TB2 issue is a problem; I suspect thousands of people out there are using TB2 interfaces just fine with TB3 ports and adapters. If they weren't we'd have heard about it. And besides, that issue isn't going away so you don't gain anything by waiting.

I don't expect a comparable 27" Apple Silicon iMac for at least a year, and probably longer. And then, think of all your plugins that will need to be updated to work with AS. It will be 2022 before things are running at all smoothly.

So take my hand and we'll jump together ...

 

[Paratriplel]

I really appreciate your feedback and advice. It just makes it feel so much less intriguing to decide when people tell you that you’re not crazy for doing so

I really don’t use that much obscure 3rd party plugins for audio but I want to use my DAW less as a tape machine and begin to use more plugins instead of messing around with hardware every time so guess I wouldn’t suffer even if I waited for AS.

If I knew that the first AS would be as powerful and work fine as the intel iMac will do, I think I would just wait for AS and get a AS Macbook or even wake for the AS MacBook Pro since heat isn’t an issue anymore but considering the 20% of 3D Modeling that I do is what makes me feel more confident in Intel iMac and of course knowing what I’ll get and knowing it will be more than enough for me and knowing I can use whatever audio interface I want and especially since I need/prefer one with a lot of inputs without having to think about AS-support.

Any word out there about if AS will be able to generally push the real time latency down? I tried researching this and found people claiming “because of X if will not handle latency as well as Intel” bud also then found hopeful people Saying the ex’s or opposite but I dont remember if it was strictly audio latency being being discussed but I think it was on a audio forum so I guess.
English is not my native language so have some issues understanding some technical stuff sometimes.

The 828es seems like a great value. Just seemed that it, along with a lot of interfaces have not been updated in so long time so there’s that but it will work just fine and that’s the only ting I’d importance.

 

[jobinhosyntax]

So take my hand and we'll jump together ...

I'm in the same boat but now considering a 16 core Ryzen PC build, it's the best processor for DSP by a mile and can be cooled efficiently to spec. Very tempting, although I would miss OSX.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

I am in a similar spot, and it really is a tough decision. So much to consider, so many pros and cons, so many variables yet unknown.

However, I just ordered a 2020 iMac. I think the first one or two generations of redesigned Silicon iMacs will have a couple of flaws that first need to get ironed out. With the „last of the Intels“ I will be on the safe side for audio at least for the next couple of years.

 

[Paratriplel]

Let’s all hold hands and jump then, and it’s looking like we all are jumping towards an Intel iMac with some exceptions.
I think I’ll wait until the last few day’s of the AirPods promotion just so that if news come about something looking really great with the AS Macs I might still be able to return it. But it’s a beautiful thing not to have to be alone about being confused about this and if we’re all idiots it’s the new standard and I’m not alone. <3

I guess I’m a bit worried about fan noise but I’m not super sensitive but I hate the feeling of having a computer that is loud even though it’s really not being pushed at all. My MacBook Pro is really loud even when I just have restarted it and it’s signing in. So I believe I won’t be too irritated with fan noise.

About configuration. How stupid am I to just buy the base config of the top tier?

Should I get a larger SSD? I mean with external storage and having a low of disks that are not full and not using more than half of my internal disk on my MBP is it even necessary to have more double internal space? I always track to external drive (some of the fast top Samsung disks from a few years ago) but it would be nice of course to have more internal storage and maybe resell value would be a lot higher with 1 TB.

Is 10 Gbit Ethernet useful? I mean I can’t have a cable between my router and computer because it’s in such different location and along long distance if I don’t want the cable to just lay straight towards it making me unable to close doors etc.


Graphic card then. Is the 5500 enough for my usage (not gaming at all) with Logic Pro X and Fusion 360? Might want to drive another display at 4K and preferably 32” at some point but right I’m just using my HP 27es-display but it’s right with monitors and two displays between them even though my DIY raise and lower studio table (meaning it has two cuts for rack gear in the front side) is 1500 x 900 mm and I just can’t figure out how to use two screens without confusing the **** out of me hehe so I need one primary display that I use for at least 95%.
So that means if I get that 32” 4K display I’ll have to stop using the iMac a screen at least for Audio work but I think I’ll just try to stay with it’s screen for a long while. Sad Apple didn’t give us a 30 or 32” 6K option for the last iMac maybe keeping the 27” product but just charging us $250-$400 extra for it. How I spent hours for months hoping for this (that and improved cooling would have made me order an iMac in a heartbeat) but then just, nope.
Well oh well.

What has been the issue with RAM?
I’ve read different stories but seems people have to remove Apple Ram for some reason? My 2019 started fine and I’ve also read not everyone seem to have to remove the Apple ram to put their own in. Anyone that can clarify this? I’ve just read bits and pieces and it just made me confused


What configurations did you guys get and why?

Sorry for any misspelling, Macrumors forum is very slow on my iPhone XS for some reason. I mean I’m typing to fast for the keyboard (and probably often miss a few letters of course) to perceive it and sometimes I miss to correct it. Thanks again for letting me know that I’m not alone in being confused!

 

[cltd]

I’m thinking about getting an iMac 27” top tier (Intel i7) with no BTO.

Will use it 70% audio production (recording external instruments and using some third party plugins but not virtual instruments) 20 % 3D modeling (Fusion 360) and 10% other office stuff / surfing the web.

To those who decided to buy the Intel iMac 2020: what argument prevailed?

This decision drives me crazy. My situation: -my iMac 27 2013 i7 died few months ago (GPU failure); -now I use Macbook Pro 15 (2015), which is substitute of failed iMac but only in part (Internet, Office - it's to weak to carry my audio works); -I have a lot of software for Intel iMac: for...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Paratriplel]

Thank you did the link. I had seen that thread before but i forgot it.
I’ll defiantly start reading through it!

Would love for @Azrael9 to chime in here and five a response. Truely one of the few others that I just really know waited and longed harder than myself for the update. Besides he is also working in 3D on a Mac and is the only one I know would have slightly similar demands on the computer as myself (besides I don’t game, I would though I’d u could find a game that interested me enough).

 

[Azrael9]

Hello Paratriplel.

It just a case of if you have a 'dead' iMac and need one now. I had a 'dead' iMac. So I decided to move when they became available. It was somewhat 'rushed' as I didn't have time to fully consider the tiers and BTO options.

But I pretty much went maxed out on cpu and gpu.

For those without a 'dead' iMac. Depends on whether you're coming from a really old iMac 2012 (like me) or a 2019 or slightly earlier.

10 cores. 5700 GPU. You'll notice it. It will fly.

But. In that context of a 'much older' machine. So will the great value 8 core and 5500XT. But that config' is 500 gig SSD. Might be ok for core apps. But not bootcamp as well. Not for a lot of data. You'd have to buy an external SSD to augment that.

Or BTO the 1TB SSD.

If you're doing 3d on a light basis. A 5500XT isn't that far behind a Vega 48 (last time around's BTO.). Bargain to be included on the 3rd tier. If you want greater 3D authority? The 'down clocked' 5700 is great value and 50% higher perf'.

The 5700XT is faster still. But it offers 50% more VRAM. And my flies on Poser Pro 11 scenes that choked my 2012 late iMac with the 680MX.

But? Fans. For whatever reason (ok...10 core and 5700XT throw out heat. That's the reason. And even downclocked they throw out watts.) the fans kick in with little provocation with the 10 core.

Someone will have to say if the 8 core does the same on 3d renders. I don't have the 8 core.

No 32 inch display. But the 5k 27 inch is thing of wonder if you're coming from QHD like myself.

People have to look at their budget, their work use and be honest with themselves.

If you like matt displays you now have that option. If you work mainly with 3d the 8 core isn't that far off the 10 core and you'll save £400. The 5700 isn't that far off the XT. And you'll save another few hundred.

£2800 vs £3400.

You'll probably want to BTO the 1TB SSD though from the 3rd tier. (I'm running bootcamp. Each OS got half each. But when I get a PC workstation, I'll give that 500 Gig back to the Mac.)

I'm not a fan of the fans pulsing in. I'd rather Appel pegged the Intel cpu lower and they only kick in if I'm doing intense 3d renders.

My 2012 quad core could do Poser renders without the fans engaging. So this needs further investigation.

Azrael.

 

[cltd]

Thank you did the link. I had seen that thread before but i forgot it.
I’ll defiantly start reading through it!

I'm a guy with "dead" iMac. I know your dilemma. Jusk ask yourself:
1. are You ready to buy again your favourite software as ARM versions?
2. are You sure your software vendors will develop ARM versions?
3. are You ready to spend money on new ARM Mac sooner than any Mac earlier (2-3 years?)?
4. the same with audio interface
5. do You need Windows compatibility?

Perhaps only Logic users are 100% safe

 

[pldelisle]

My 2012 quad core could do Poser renders without the fans engaging. So this needs further investigation.

Cpu of that time weren’t heating like today’s ones. My 2700K in my compute server doesn’t heat even when pushed to max capacity.

 

[pldelisle]

What has been the issue with RAM?
I’ve read different stories but seems people have to remove Apple Ram for some reason? My 2019 started fine and I’ve also read not everyone seem to have to remove the Apple ram to put their own in. Anyone that can clarify this? I’ve just read bits and pieces and it just made me confused

Just follow the rules here https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/memory-upgrade-compatibility-list-for-imac-2019-2020.2248911/

 

[pldelisle]

Is 10 Gbit Ethernet useful? I mean I can’t have a cable between my router and computer because it’s in such different location and along long distance if I don’t want the cable to just lay straight towards it making me unable to close doors etc.

Only if you have a 10gbps file server and 10gbps switch on your LAN.
[automerge]1599570668[/automerge]

Should I get a larger SSD? I mean with external storage and having a low of disks that are not full and not using more than half of my internal disk on my MBP is it even necessary to have more double internal space? I always track to external drive (some of the fast top Samsung disks from a few years ago) but it would be nice of course to have more internal storage and maybe resell value would be a lot higher with 1 TB.

1TB minimum. Offers more bandwidth too. Better resell value (if there will be any....)

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Anyone who waits for Apple Silicon is heading for a world of hurt when it comes to compatibility with existing software. I may be a bit pessimistic with this, but if you are using your computer for income or in a production environment, I would not risk Apple Silicon until it's been out for a while.

 

[pldelisle]

Anyone who waits for Apple Silicon is heading for a world of hurt when it comes to compatibility with existing software. I may be a bit pessimistic with this, but if you are using your computer for income or in a production environment, I would not risk Apple Silicon until it's been out for a while.

Rosetta will save the day. and the performance hit will be a lot lower than expected because the AS will be faster than an Intel CPU. Sure softwares won't be optimized on day 1. It will take sometimes a couple of years, but it's already incredibly easy to compile applications for both platform.

 

[Paratriplel]

Well... My MacBook Pro 15" from 2015 isn't dead but something is up since the lid can't be closed, not sure how I really can check if it's the battery and everything on it works, I mean as in trackpad, keyboard and the fans doesn't sound like they are scraping against anything.
My other MacBook Pro 15" from 2012 had a swollen battery that first showed when the trackpad stopped functioning, a half year later the keyboard stoped working and just hours later I heard the fans scraping against something. that I asked a technician that usually fix things really cheap (his prices usually is so low that it seems he forgot to charge for his time!) but when I....

Spoiler: Long totally unnecessary story telling about when I had my older MacBook Pro (2012) fixed...

asked him to fix my MacBook Pro 2012, basically just told him to remove the battery and make it work again and just leave it without a battery if that would work since I never used it anyway but well this time it got really expensive and I felt he messed up. He ordered a new battery (that's all fine of course) then he also asked me if I wanted some more RAM, it would only cost me $50, I said it wasn't a priority but since I know how easy it is to install I said he can do it if he really just charges for the 5 min it takes to install and some cash for the "material"...

Then when I got it back it still sounded broken. I realised he never cared to try it out or look at the fans, which I remember telling him on the phone was what made me understand I really needed to service it now or it will never be fixable... Anyway, went back to him and he said it would take another month to fix.
I got the (first!) invoice and it was about $200 fine, paid it, then it was finished and I picked it up and it was working fine now, then the next invoice came and it just just slightly less than the first one and it said he had cleaned it out as well etc... but this computer was not nearly worth the $400 I paid for the repair (he is not apple authorized, so it felt really expensive and if I knew that from the start I'd never have asked anyone to repair it but instead just ordered the correct tools and done it myself (I know my way around electronics just slight but have opened up my older MacBook Pro's for installing SSD's etc, It was just my girlfriend that forbid me to do it because she was afraid I'd make it explode in my face and I am a bit clumsy so well well.. Point being it wasn't even worth that much if I sold it so why the hell repair it for it, I could just have bought a new for that money, since it's just my "living room computer" for some office work and media playing.

Anyway, computer not broken right now and it will probably hold up a while but not sure how long but even if this MacBook Pro 2015 costed about $2950 (USD) / €2500 (EUR) when it was new it's not worth more than about $1100 / €950 today.

Worth mentioning also is that I don't live in a country where neither USD or EUR is used (I live in Sweden) so everything from Apple is damn expensive.

Just need to mention this...

When I bought my first Mac it's price would have been about the same (slightly more expensive here) if I had my currency converted to USD and bought it.
Now it's like this:
iMac 27" top tier is 28 995 SEK which is 3 290 USD - In the US the same computer costs 2299 USD (that's freaking 1 000 USD more that I have to pay for the base top tier model, that's why I'm considering not getting any BTO but 1 TB would be nice of course...)
The MacBook Pro 16 then... Well here in Sweden the two different base models are 29 999 SEK = 3 400 USD. The other top tier MBP 16" is 34 999 SEK = 3 970 USD but if these models are bought in the US it is 2 399 USD for lowest tier, for the top tier MBP 16", 2 799 USD.

Today the SEK vs USD is: 1 USD = 8,81 SEK
so 10 SEK = $1.14
and 1000 SEK = $113.54

So a computer that costs 2.299 USD should cost 20 247.59 SEK but if price is with tax I guess we add the Swedish tax to it which is 25% which makes it something like 25 000 SEK (28995-25000=2995 SEK that we pay more even still with out high tax added)....
So just imagine if I start adding 1 TB which costs 2500 SEK (280 USD extra) or make a GPU upgrade (5700 is 3 750 SEK (425 USD) or 5700XT is 6 250 SEK (700 USD) or if I wanted the 1 TB update, Radeon Pro 5700 and maybe the 10 Gigabit Ethernet and I can't use a Magic Mouse so I upgrade it to the Magic Trackpad 2...
These upgrades would cost me 37 140 SEK (4 200 USD) (if ordered from the US Store it would cost 2949 USD or 25 972 SEK (it's even less than I have to pay for the base model!!!!! and I didn't even add the 10-core).. I'm gonna try to stop it, I just get jealous and we didn't receive any Stimulus-checks (instead we agreed to let a few EU countries get hundreds of billions euros for "Corona"-help even though Sweden was hit very hard by Corona as well and even harder than some of those countries that will receive this money and they only have to pay back a fraction more than the rest of the EU (since they loaned this money from the central bank. I don't care, I know Sweden is ****ed anyway and will leave as soon as I can, I hope the sunny beaches of California wants me when I'm making hits like.. didn't come up with a good enough joke so let's leave it.. I can go for sunny beaches in Spain as well and the señoritas in Spain are often so beautiful so I ain't.. I mean *back from dreaming* I will not complain. Sorry for these dry dry jokes if you can even call them that.

BTW, I'm not sure about how to separate dollar from cent's etc so I just used dots because I think the US do it like that? So none gets confused.

Swedish prices are including taxes since everything sold to consumers needs to include them in price but I can't imagine that you pay even near what I'm paying in the end?

Anyway so to actually get back to topic.

I do 3D modeling as a hobby, sure it would be fun to have a work doing it but I can't imagine doing it for 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
I prefer it more as a skill that I can use at times among having lots of other duties but none really would hire me or even let me if the need occurred because in Sweden there's a culture of looking down at people that have skills and can help people with a degree in that area (I have no degree or even courses behind me since I'm self taught, doing it mostly for 3D modelling parts that I need and have use for. I make no money on my 3D modelling), I'm hoping to find a new employer that actually values my broad range of skills (that are often not that deep but deep enough to educate me further if a need occurs and sadly most skills in IT which I hate working in).

Thing is, I don't need Windows, I mostly make music in Logic Pro (I feel like leaving it and finding a new DAW but as it occurs I haven't stumbled on any DAW I feel is better, haven't tried that many yet though but might actually do so when I've got time) and most of the software I used that probably will not be ported to Apple Silicon was lost when I updated to Catalina. Ihad big issues with High Sierra and Mojave, computer randomly restarted itself and Apple never helped even though I talked to them about it over 30 times, Swedish Apple Support is kids that have been told. by their parents they are the best and they can do anything but in reality they are just spoiled idiots that can't take critics / someone telling them "I've already tried that several times, is there something else I can try or someone else I could talk to about this issue?")

So...
- No Windows-support needed
- Not having much software that will be obsolete with Apple Silicon (due to already losing them with Catalina that I had to get because I wanted / "needed" some software/function) but I will have to wait for some software to update and sadly the software and hardware companies I've asked about AS-support replies with "no info about Apple Silicon yet, check back on our website later" which isn't helping me much right now.
- Currently working in Logic Pro X.
- Not having a broken computer but rather a breaking computer (it will break if I don't get the battery fixed, unless I'm just worrying about this all in vein.
- a) Actually not making much money with my computer (also the laws in Sweden forbid people using their own stuff for company work, unless that stuff is bought on your own company and your a consultant of course and my company is "paused". These laws are just to protect the employees and put the responsibility on the employer to provide the tools you need to do your work.
b) I guess want to make money with my computer but am in a bit of a "bad place" right now (not sure how it's said in English, sort of writers block but with everything in my life, so not getting much done and not finishing the stuff I need to finish to actually make the money (talking mostly about music).
I make some money of off my music but it's the music I made and published about 10 years ago soon and if I can make almost $1000 a year then I could be a millionaire if I just got my **** together and started working with finishing my track again, feels like I need a boss that makes me do what I should do, setting my own deadlines just doesn't work because I've got too little respect for myself to follow through but I do want to start being productive again and I've got so many ideas for it that would demand a stable and fast computer (but we're not talking getting the 10-core for the few extra %...).

Makes a few good points towards Apple Silicon and I understand it might be the "smartest" choice.

If I can get the now expected Macbook with the same power as the current 2020 iMac I might go for it, especially if it has a few TB4 ports and very good cooling if it even needs cooling... I just don't feel like I can wait like 8 months for an Apple Silicon Mac that will work fine and then maybe realise that some software doesn't work as I expected it or work at all. I don't know whenever Fusion 360 comes to Apple Silicon, if at all (I think I read some vague answer that it probably will though) and I can of course start using something else but it took me a long while to even get my workflow up to speed with Fusion 360 but well, it's not a deal breaker.

But what about the pro's going with the iMac 27" 2020

- Pretty much know what you get
- Coming from a 2,5 GHz MBP 15" from 2015 the performance increase should be enormous
- I really wanted to get that iMac for so long now and the need is obviously bigger now than a year ago
- It will last me over the first few generations of AS, I guess it will be a big increase in stability, quality and performance from gen 1 to gen 2 to gen 3 and maybe that's when I should get on board and get one
- Don't know what the prices of AS will be for what you want or need

I also think if I also get myself an iPad Pro I could probably kind of eat and still have the cake, I hoped for it to be updated again now next week

Also I feel that the longer I wait trying to decide the less obvious it is to get an Intel iMac when I don't need Win-support.
I'm hoping that I can get an iMac with 1 TB space, maybe it will increase resell value and I guess if you're patience someone will come and want to buy it even if most people want the new and shiny silicon, as long as I get sort of 2/3 back of what I paid I can live with it even if I move to AS within 2 years from now.


Need to stop writing now otherwise I'll go on and on and on. Sorry if it was very confusing with me going on about really unrelated things, mostly wanted to point out how unfair Apple prices their products in Sweden, I guess they either don't care / too small market or it's something that I'm missing but I know that most of us here in Europe pay more than people do in the US, just so weird that it's the case now because when I got my first MacBook Pro it costed me about $2 000 / 20 000 and that was really really lots of money to spend on a single computer at least for me. Back then it usually was 10 SEK=1 USD and now when the SEK vs USD difference is less (to the SEK's advantages, meaning I get more USD even if I pay the same amount of SEK), so it's just odd but I know Tim Apple is greedy and everything beautiful Apple actually stands for seems to only be market PR for him.


No! I'm sorry, I'm stopping here. Sorry! Should really set a stop clock for 10 min so that I don't end up writing walls of text like these, it's like competing with the bible. Sorry.

 

[Paratriplel]

1TB minimum. Offers more bandwidth too. Better resell value (if there will be any....)

What do you mean by "offers more bandwidth too"?


Also a question if you can answer this one as well, if you were here during the PowerPC times, what happened to the PowerPC's after the first Intel Mac's had gone on sale? Did people completely stop buying them? Huge price drops etc?

I'm actually very scared to be left with my Intel Mac when it can no longer be used with what I plan to use it with, sure software won't stop work but new interesting functions etc will of course be absent. I at the same time feel like it would be amazing to have such a powerful computer even if I don't get any new functions (that I rarely tend to learn how to use for years anyway) and worst case I'm stuck with it but maybe still get one of the lower priced mac's until I save up enough money for the one I really want.

 

[pldelisle]

What do you mean by "offers more bandwidth too"?

More transfert speed. Sorry, it might be the wrong term.

what happened to the PowerPC's after the first Intel Mac's had gone on sale

It died.
Pretty quickly.

2 years after first release of Mac Intel macOS dropped support for PowerPC.

But the user base was far less than today's. I don't think Apple could do this today.

 

[Paratriplel]

I guess my dilemma is

will the first AS Mac (or maybe even the second) be as powerful or have about the same performance as the current iMac 27” top tier and that it will be totally fine to use for “simpler” 3D-modeling and music production I’m fine waiting for it.
I know that mine knows outside Apple but you (someone that is very well informed) can make educational guesses based on fact and what we do know and fill in the blanks if they aren’t too many blanks.

If it is the case maybe I should just sell the 32 GB of RAM I have and decide to wait but I’m willing to take a chance the other way as well but I would want to be able to use the back to school discount and also get the free AirPods then, guess I could wait to the last minute and order then but I feel it’s a bit shady to do so but Apple being so vague about what to expect might also be a bit shady, trying to fool people buying Intel Mac’s and being vague about how long they will support them (“for years!”, which could be 2-10 years) etc. but they are in this to make a profit after all but I’m not sure if I consider it fair play to make the machines so unrepairable as they have and a lot more...

Well, I keep going back and forth about this but I hope to be able to decide very soon, I have to, otherwise time decides for me.

 

[pldelisle]

I guess my dilemma is

will the first AS Mac be as powerful or have about the same performance as the current iMac 27" top tier

No. Second, yes.

it will be totally fine to use for “simpler” 3D-modeling and music production

Probably.


If you need it now, buy it.

If you don't, wait. But know you are going to wait until next fall at least (might not be in the Back to school too).

All laptops will be on AS way before the desktops will. Expect a small, 12 inch MacBook with passively cooled AS. Then, MacBook Air, with a 15w AS. Then MBP 13 with 25w AS. Then MBP16 with 35-40w AS. Then Mac mini. Then iMac 27". Then Mac Pro (June 2022 WWDC announcement, December 2022 release). iMac Pro somewhere if ever Apple want to keep it which I doubt.

 

[Paratriplel]

Hmm so you mean that the 1TB SSD is faster / lower latency than the 512 GB?
Or do you actually mean bandwidth (speed is the same but instead of transferring.. say 10 GB per second you can transfer 15 GB per second? Or if we’re talked speed that the 10 GB doesn’t transfer in 1 second but instead in 0,75 seconds?).
I mostly meant I was surprised that there was any difference at all and couldn’t understand why really since I’d have though the only difference was the storage size.


I also wonder about waiting until next fall thing, do you really believe that something with the performance like the MacBook Pro 16” will be so far off?

Is it that unlikely that they release a Apple Silicon MBP 16” without any throttling and without fan noise in maybe Mars 2021? A date such as that I can wait for but “end of summer 2021” I do not feel I can wait for.

And I mean I don’t mind a laptop at all I just don’t need portability right now but I do need a new computer fairly soon and the sole reason I had my eyes on an iMac was first of all the fewer of the issues with MBP 16” TB bit also to get more power for less money.

I do feel that everything as powerful as the 16”, probably even lower end would be enough for me id it throttled a bit less and had less fan noise/airplane soundFX (it is nice with some headroom though).

I don’t know how long my computer has to live but it would be so frustrating if it died just a month or two before the first Apple Silicon.

Wish we had some more rumors about AS, saw something today but I have no idea what it means.Total of 12 cores where as 8 of them is performance cores, 4 efficiency cores yadayada, anyone that has maybe a current product to compare it to for comparison? Of course we don’t know anything about how powerful and so forth but when you read something like that what does your instinct tell you?
I seriously didn’t know what the hell intel meant about thise i3,i5,i7 and i9’s until maybe two years ago and I have never had a good understanding about CPU’s or GPU’s, just that more GHz (is MHz back in the day) is better. Just making a point about why I have a hard time judging if their new AS Mac will be like a new version of the MacBook also in performance or if Apple is going for a knock out by making their first AS more powerful than everything other than their Mac Pro.

Also to be Clear. I wouldn’t get an iMac it wasn’t for the sheer fact that they don’t make any other alternative. Since I can’t afford the Mac Pro any more, or the iMac Pro and don’t need that much “power” and Apple does not make any other tower or mid computer and he Mac mini seems to be a a bit of a femme if it’s enough and besides it has no dedicate GPU and it’s almost as expensive as the iMac so seems like a bad deal, sadly.

 

[Paratriplel]

All laptops will be on AS way before the desktops will. Expect a small, 12 inch MacBook with passively cooled AS. Then, MacBook Air, with a 15w AS. Then MBP 13 with 25w AS. Then MBP16 with 35-40w AS. Then Mac mini. Then iMac 27". Then Mac Pro (June 2022 WWDC announcement, December 2022 release). iMac Pro somewhere if ever Apple want to keep it which I doubt.

That’s a timeline at least but when would you guess that the MBP16 with 35-40w comes out? Or screw it even the 13/14” could be interesting if powerful enough.

I mean Apple did those demos in WWDC, they seemed extremely promising didn’t they? Was it ever mentioned if it was Developer kit they used? I mean if A12Z is that powerful the best chip should do me fine and I could just get myself whatever monitor I want for the rest of the cash I have left.

 

[pldelisle]

Hmm so you mean that the 1TB SSD is faster / lower latency than the 512 GB?

Not lower frequency but higher transfert speed in MB/second.

(speed is the same but instead of transferring.. say 10 GB per second you can transfer 15 GB per second? Or if we’re talked speed that the 10 GB doesn’t transfer in 1 second but instead in 0,75 seconds?).

This all mean the exact same thing ..................

I also wonder about waiting until next fall thing, do you really believe that something with the performance like the MacBook Pro 16” will be so far off?

Not before Q3 2021.

Is it that unlikely that they release a Apple Silicon MBP 16” without any throttling and without fan noise in maybe Mars 2021? A date such as that I can wait for but “end of summer 2021” I do not feel I can wait for.

I think so. Very unlikely to see an AS with this performance level by 2H2021. There is no severe throttling in current 16 MBP. Will be inexistant with AS.

I don’t know how long my computer has to live but it would be so frustrating if it died just a month or two before the first Apple Silicon.

Sudden death of a computer is quite rare. My battery is swelling in my MBP 2013 since march, the computer is still my daily driver.

Of course we don’t know anything about how powerful and so forth but when you read something like that what does your instinct tell you?

Everything's possible and I really don't like to speculate. Nearly 75% of what the iMac should have been is not there in 2020 so ... Seriously I don't like to waste time on speculate.

just that more GHz (is MHz back in the day) is better.

False.


Don't touch to Mac mini. The mini will shine only with AS.

when would you guess that the MBP16 with 35-40w comes out?

2H 2021.

I mean if A12Z is that powerful the best chip should do me fine and I could just get myself whatever monitor I want for the rest of the cash I have left.

A12Z is a test chip in DTK. It's what Apple can get without even trying (- Federighi). It performs just as well as an iPad Pro. It does the job well, but it's still a 5W tablet CPU. For macOS it's too limiting. You cannot have this kind of chip in a production Mac, ever. They will need to scale out to at least a 50W CPU to be on par with Intel 95W TDP chips in current iMac, and a 100W CPU with something like ... 20 cores to rival Intel Xeon.


BTW, your posts are way too long. Concision is an art. Nobody will read your posts if they are too long. Bullet points are your friend. We are not here to read your monologue, we are here to help you help you on precise concerns you have. We don't have to know that Sweden had been hit hard by coronavirus ........ And nobody are could ever make you take a decision to buy it or not.

So if you need an iMac, get it. If you don't, wait. This sentence will always be the same. No need to make 100 lines paragraphs to understand it.

 

[filmgirl]

So if you need an iMac, get it. If you don't wait. This sentence will always be the same.

This. If you need a computer, you need a computer. If you’re *that* worried, you can always buy something used to try to hedge your bets.

For me, for what I do, I need Intel and feel extremely confident that AS software support (to say nothing of Apple’s configurations for hardware) won’t be in a place to replicate what I want for at least 18 months. I needed/wanted a new computer now, so I got the 2020 iMac.

For someone who has a system that is performing adequately now or who doesn’t have the same software complications that I do, I would recommend waiting. I’m not convinced that the speeds we see outside of benchmarks are going to be that impressive, at least compared to high-end x86 stuff, on the first AS machines, but waiting gives you time to assess.

But something newer/better is always around the corner. This is why, first generations not withstanding (and who am I kidding, I’m an early adopter too, even though it burns me), I tend to buy Apple stuff at the beginning of the release cycle as a way to maximize my perceived value. But the truth is, if you need a computer, you need a computer. Same goes for a phone or something else.