The EU Wants All Phones to Work With Interoperable Chargers, Here’s What That Means for Apple's Lightning Port

[Michael Scrip]

You can't shrink it any further with USB-C port.

The lightning port can allow the device to be thinner than MOTO Z.

Lots of people are asking for a thinner iPhone 12.

Shrink it further?

Apple's thinnest iPhone ever was 6.9mm... they've got a looong way to go to beat the Moto Z at 5.2mm...

There might be such a thing as too thin, though.

We expect big batteries, multiple cameras, face recognition sensors, wireless charging, and all sorts of other stuff in our phones today.

I understand what you're saying regarding what might be possible with Lightning. You're right... you could make an extremely thin phone with Lightning.

But Apple isn't chasing the "thinness crown" anymore if you haven't noticed.

Apple has been making iPhones between 7mm-8mm for a while now. So they can surely put a USB-C port in a phone at that thickness.


This may clarify my position:

People keep saying the USB-C port is too big to make an ultra-thin phone.

Yet Motorola made one of the thinnest phones ever at 5.2mm... with a USB-C port.

Do you see how the 2nd statement contradicts the 1st statement?


I don't think Apple will ever attempt to make a 5.2mm phone anyway. But if they did... Motorola proved that you can put a USB-C port in a phone that thin.

 

[deeddawg]

I don't think Apple will ever attempt to make a 5.2mm phone anyway. But if they did... Motorola proved that you can put a USB-C port in a phone that thin.

Point of information(*) - the USB C port on the 5.2mm thick Moto Z was under a bezel and not under the display -- which likely allowed for more interior space than if it were under the display. The current (?) Moto Z4 with minimal bezel is 7.35mm thick albeit I don't know if that's the camera bump or rest of the casing.

(*) just pointing out a possibly relevant detail, I have no position in the "too thin for USBC" debate.

 

[trainwrecka]

You are aware that without the government, companies will end up hurting workers, the environment and customers? They’re only in the game to make a profit.

Everyone - and I mean EVERYONE - is in the game to make a profit. Even you. The difference of what you think of profit and me is probably the issue. You are probably thinking of Scrooge McDuck swimming in money. I'm thinking of people making money to sustain their business and keep people employed - making money for themselves and those involved - while bringing costs down for the consumer.

 

[weckart]

Lots of people are asking for a thinner iPhone 12.

Lots of people are wrong, then.

 

[hagar]

Everyone - and I mean EVERYONE - is in the game to make a profit. Even you. The difference of what you think of profit and me is probably the issue. You are probably thinking of Scrooge McDuck swimming in money. I'm thinking of people making money to sustain their business and keep people employed - making money for themselves and those involved - while bringing costs down for the consumer.

It’s nice you believe in fairy tales. Many corporations don’t care about their workers, the environment and the customer. As long as they make a profit they do anything. And the only thing stopping them is legislation.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

And yet my MBP loses its power connection a hundred times a day if I move my laptop an inch one direction or another. From any of its four ports.

Honestly, I'd take it to a genius bar, or just get a replacement power cable. That doesn't sound normal at all.

 

[cmaier]

Honestly, I'd take it to a genius bar, or just get a replacement power cable. That doesn't sound normal at all.

It's not the cable. It's *all* cables. That's the point. The contacts in usb-c devices are in the socket, while for lightning they are on the cable. In one case you must fix by replacing the socket, in the other you fix by replacing the cable.

And given that the machine is now out of Apple care, it's not practical to have it fixed.

Over time, it will happen to lots of people with usb-c devices. The first wave of problems has just recently started.

 

[brucewayne]

All current MBP and Retina MBA, as well as iPad Pro, are USB-C only.

Doesn't seem like a stretch to make the iPhone USB-C?

I have no problem with Apple switching the iPhone to USB-C - in all likelihood it is already planned for the next generartion of iPhones.

I do have a problem with a EU law forcing Apple to do so.

 

[cmaier]

I have no problem with Apple switching the iPhone to USB-C - in all likelihood it is already planned for the next generartion of iPhones.

I do have a problem with a EU law forcing Apple to do so.

Very well said. You, sir(?), win the thread.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

It's not the cable. It's *all* cables. That's the point. The contacts in usb-c devices are in the socket, while for lightning they are on the cable. In one case you must fix by replacing the socket, in the other you fix by replacing the cable.

There are electrical contacts in the cable connector and the device socket in ANY system.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Point of information(*) - the USB C port on the 5.2mm thick Moto Z was under a bezel and not under the display -- which likely allowed for more interior space than if it were under the display. The current (?) Moto Z4 with minimal bezel is 7.35mm thick albeit I don't know if that's the camera bump or rest of the casing.

(*) just pointing out a possibly relevant detail, I have no position in the "too thin for USBC" debate.

Good point... thanks for the info!

Yes you definitely have to design a phone to fit a USB-C port... just like any other component.

But since almost all phones made today have USB-C ports... and hardly anyone is making ultra-thin <6mm phones anymore (including Apple!)... I don't see how the USB-C port size would be an issue for Apple.

If Apple wanted to put USB-C in a future iPhone... they could.

But I think their reluctance is due to wanting to keep their Lightning licensing rather than the size of the USB-C port itself.

And for the record... I'm actually neutral on this whole topic. I like the Lightning port in iPhones. But it wouldn't bother me if iPhones had USB-C. I'd have to buy a few new cables... but that's fine.

I'm just sick of all the "OMG USB-C iPhone AHHHH" comments lately.

But at least we're not arguing about headphone jacks anymore...

 

[deeddawg]

I'm actually neutral on this whole topic. I like the Lightning port in iPhones. But it wouldn't bother me if iPhones had USB-C.

Likewise. I’d need to add a couple cables but it really won’t make a real difference beyond the extra cables. I’ll have other lighting port stuff for a while yet, and also can’t seem to shake the micro-B stuff quite yet.

I just think it isn’t something government needs to be regulating. Let the market decide: those who want a USBC enough can vote with their wallets and buy USBC phones.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Likewise. I’d need to add a couple cables but it really won’t make a real difference beyond the extra cables. I’ll have other lighting port stuff for a while yet, and also can’t seem to shake the micro-B stuff quite yet.

Yep!

I do video production... so I basically carry every cable imaginable!

Between camera gear, lighting, and sound... I need USB-C, Micro-USB, and Mini-USB... full-size HDMI, Mini-HDMI, and Micro-HDMI... it's maddening!

That's why phone cables aren't that big a deal to me...

As long as I have a phone charging cable in my car, at my desk, and in my travel kit... I'm covered. No matter what that cable is.

 

[Brandhouse]

Yes they do. As a manufacturer you are required to fit a fused 3-pin plug for UK domestic mains appliances, to give just one example.

I feel that's a different situation.

 

[cocoua]

well, there are some facts

pros USB-C
-everyone have or would have eventually an USB-C cable at home, so taht would be great.
-USB-C means super speed data transfer (lighting still USB 2!!) they now and that's why iPad Pro is already there.
-iPhones are already thicker than 2016, and would be like there as battery tech dont improve very fast. And Android Phones are same size adn some have even more hardware inside, so please…
-iPad Pro is already there (0.59cm vs .81cm iPhone 11 PRo!!!!)
-people is tired of having 2-3 tipes of calbes (micro USB, USB-C, Lighting)
-lighting is thinner but far inferior to USB-C

Cons
-Apple is making some extra good money with Lighting and all the adapters and cables they sell, as they made a lot of money with old iPod connector, they like to control what you connect to their devices



Apple is a bit lost right now, some devices have lighting, some USB-C, there is no order, no zen philosophy, no balance….

 

[deeddawg]

Apple is a bit lost right now, some devices have lighting, some USB-C, there is no order, no zen philosophy, no balance….

Sure there is.

"Client" devices are equipped with Lightning. "Host" devices are equipped with USBC, including the latest ipad pro given the new capabilities of ipadOS.

Granted, this distinction is a bit fuzzy, but from a general sense there is a clear delineation. Phones, ipods, airpods, older ipads are all lightning. Laptops, desktops, and the ipad Pro are USBC.

 

[HandITOVER]

well, there are some facts

pros USB-C
-everyone have or would have eventually an USB-C cable at home, so taht would be great.
-USB-C means super speed data transfer (lighting still USB 2!!) they now and that's why iPad Pro is already there.
-iPhones are already thicker than 2016, and would be like there as battery tech dont improve very fast. And Android Phones are same size adn some have even more hardware inside, so please…
-iPad Pro is already there (0.59cm vs .81cm iPhone 11 PRo!!!!)
-people is tired of having 2-3 tipes of calbes (micro USB, USB-C, Lighting)
-lighting is thinner but far inferior to USB-C

Cons
-Apple is making some extra good money with Lighting and all the adapters and cables they sell, as they made a lot of money with old iPod connector, they like to control what you connect to their devices



Apple is a bit lost right now, some devices have lighting, some USB-C, there is no order, no zen philosophy, no balance….

Lightning is not exactly inferior in any way and USB-C is just a connector. It will be great if USB-C 2 can be as small as a Lightning connector.

 

[I7guy]

well, there are some facts

pros USB-C
-everyone have or would have eventually an USB-C cable at home, so taht would be great.
-USB-C means super speed data transfer (lighting still USB 2!!) they now and that's why iPad Pro is already there.
-iPhones are already thicker than 2016, and would be like there as battery tech dont improve very fast. And Android Phones are same size adn some have even more hardware inside, so please…
-iPad Pro is already there (0.59cm vs .81cm iPhone 11 PRo!!!!)
-people is tired of having 2-3 tipes of calbes (micro USB, USB-C, Lighting)
-lighting is thinner but far inferior to USB-C

Cons
-Apple is making some extra good money with Lighting and all the adapters and cables they sell, as they made a lot of money with old iPod connector, they like to control what you connect to their devices



Apple is a bit lost right now, some devices have lighting, some USB-C, there is no order, no zen philosophy, no balance….

I don’t agree with these “facts”:

- I have multiple cables as I own multiple suits. One size does not fit all.
- it doesn’t bother me that I have multiple cables.
- it’s a plus that Apple is able to make some money from its cables.

 

[deeddawg]

well, there are some facts

opinions, sure. facts? not entirely.

pros USB-C
-USB-C means super speed data transfer (lighting still USB 2!!)

False.

Many USBC cables are USB2.0 speeds. Typically you find this with charging cables.

-people is tired of having 2-3 tipes of calbes (micro USB, USB-C, Lighting)

You imply that this would reduce # of cable - maybe among kids with just a phone and a computer.

Folks with a variety of legacy gear will be maintaining these various cables for years to come regardless of whether their phone uses Lightning or USBC.

-lighting is thinner but far inferior to USB-C

Opinion, not "fact" as you claim. Remember - "better" depends on exactly what you're comparing. Above you talk about data transfer speeds -- those are irrelevant for a charging port you don't transfer data over.

-Apple is making some extra good money with Lighting and all the adapters and cables they sell, as they made a lot of money with old iPod connector, they like to control what you connect to their devices

#1 - who cares, other than jealous people, socialists, or folks who've invested in AAPL? It's not like Lightning cables are expensive; I can literally have five 1-meter cables delivered tomorrow for $11.

#2 - any control over what you can connect is OS related and switching connector won't magically change that.

 

[NokX]

Wireless charging is very inefficient and needs nearly twice as much energy to charge a device (read costs nearly twice as much and takes nearly twice as long)

It'll only get better and it's universal. Going to a friend's house and they don't have your type of charger isn't the end of the world. Gas stations have them for pennies.

I'd almost guarantee this "push" to have the government (and not standards organizations) choose a "winner" in the connector world is by companies wanting their standard to be the law of the land and we shouldn't grant companies or governments that type of power.

 

[compwiz1202]

It'd be nice if the EU regulations would ban having wireless charging as the only option. This is something idiotic that Apple would likely try to do eventually, given their obsession with eliminating wires. While wireless charging is convenient, it's also inefficient and should never be the ONLY option. Imagine charging with a portable power bank and losing almost half the energy as heat because you can only charge wirelessly.

Definitely need more efficiency, speed, range and public availability before I would even get a wireless only iPhone.

 

[compwiz1202]

It'll only get better and it's universal. Going to a friend's house and they don't have your type of charger isn't the end of the world. Gas stations have them for pennies.

I'd almost guarantee this "push" to have the government (and not standards organizations) choose a "winner" in the connector world is by companies wanting their standard to be the law of the land and we shouldn't grant companies or governments that type of power.

Yes and if I every go anywhere away from home I am never assuming they have the correct or enough chargers for me. I bring my own.
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It’s nice you believe in fairy tales. Many corporations don’t care about their workers, the environment and the customer. As long as they make a profit they do anything. And the only thing stopping them is legislation.

I definitely agree about nearly all corporations being evil, but that doesn't mean all businesses are. Problem is the corporations use their muscle to knock out the good smaller businesses.
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It's not the cable. It's *all* cables. That's the point. The contacts in usb-c devices are in the socket, while for lightning they are on the cable. In one case you must fix by replacing the socket, in the other you fix by replacing the cable.

And given that the machine is now out of Apple care, it's not practical to have it fixed.

Over time, it will happen to lots of people with usb-c devices. The first wave of problems has just recently started.

Exactly I'd rather just use option 2 every time. I can see standardizing chargers and charger end of cables. Those are easily replaceable. Not so easy for everyone to replace devices. But still definitely destroy micro or any other one way connectors already.

 

[deeddawg]

I definitely agree about nearly all corporations being evil, but that doesn't mean all businesses are. Problem is the corporations use their muscle to knock out the good smaller businesses.

... and guess who is a huge proponent of government imposed standards? Big corporations. Because it stifles competition from smaller / new&innovative businesses.

Notice how Walmart called on US Congress to raise the minimum wage? It wasn't for the good of the employees.

 

[ani4ani]

It'll only get better and it's universal. Going to a friend's house and they don't have your type of charger isn't the end of the world. Gas stations have them for pennies.

I'd almost guarantee this "push" to have the government (and not standards organizations) choose a "winner" in the connector world is by companies wanting their standard to be the law of the land and we shouldn't grant companies or governments that type of power.

I agree with you, unfortunately whilst we often blame governments for ill advised policy and legislation, it is the lobbying (and with that, large amounts of money) of the mega-corporations (who can afford it) behind it.

The british (I’m a Brit) often complain about the unelected EU making laws that impact us; little do they realise that many of these laws are a result of unelected big-business lobbying (including British) to get protectionist policies in place.

Notwithstanding the above, on the whole I support this proposal

 

[pianojoe]

In what way has "having the same power plug for all wall outlets" stifled innovation?