ChildOL said:
then they deserve what they get if they don't do secuirty updates.
that is shooting yourself in the foot
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The First Mac OS X Virus?
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then they deserve what they get if they don't do secuirty updates.
that is shooting yourself in the foot
Empower, Educate, and learn the truth for Yourself
Security in a connect world is something we should ALL be educated about, but it seems that most OSX users are confused (thanks to Microsoft) as to what they can actually do in regards to their computer security. Some things are true and actually should be done, like using anti-malware software, yes, even on your Mac, which would not only to help keep known bad files from getting on your system but also to help keep from spreading them to others even if all it does is display a message on the screen...
Read the following sites... Empower, Educate, and learn the truth for Yourself:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/security/
http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/02/20/security.html
http://developer.apple.com/internet/security/securityintro.html
http://www.princeton.edu/~psg/unix/osx/osxsecurity.html
Oh and many people saying XP is more secure than OSX because it has been patched so much already, but this falsely presumes OS X is like XP which it's NOT (Windows XP is just a HUGE band-aid on top of other band-aides).
Windows (except version 3.x and earlier which is actually an operating environment not an OS) is based off an old crappy system called QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) which isn't even Microsoft's creation (like always MS looks for the quick solution without doing it right the first time, this will be their downfall). Until MS redesigns windows from the ground up totally from scratch or base it on BSD (which is the smart thing to do, but they won't because they are a monopoly and want to own everything) their OS will be insecure and just plain crappy and problematic.
Security in a connect world is something we should ALL be educated about, but it seems that most OSX users are confused (thanks to Microsoft) as to what they can actually do in regards to their computer security. Some things are true and actually should be done, like using anti-malware software, yes, even on your Mac, which would not only to help keep known bad files from getting on your system but also to help keep from spreading them to others even if all it does is display a message on the screen...
Read the following sites... Empower, Educate, and learn the truth for Yourself:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/security/
http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/02/20/security.html
http://developer.apple.com/internet/security/securityintro.html
http://www.princeton.edu/~psg/unix/osx/osxsecurity.html
Oh and many people saying XP is more secure than OSX because it has been patched so much already, but this falsely presumes OS X is like XP which it's NOT (Windows XP is just a HUGE band-aid on top of other band-aides).
Windows (except version 3.x and earlier which is actually an operating environment not an OS) is based off an old crappy system called QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) which isn't even Microsoft's creation (like always MS looks for the quick solution without doing it right the first time, this will be their downfall). Until MS redesigns windows from the ground up totally from scratch or base it on BSD (which is the smart thing to do, but they won't because they are a monopoly and want to own everything) their OS will be insecure and just plain crappy and problematic.
The Empire Strikes Back...
OK who else thinks this virus/trojan was written by Microsoft? I mean what the virus does is totally out of the norm for normal virus creators. This bad press for apple is just what microsoft needs right now, proof that OS-X can be just as vulnerable as Windows. Of course the problem with Windows is not it's Vulnerability but the fact the it is basically a bad copy of OS-9, completely unstable, but most of the population doesn't know that. But this will be all over the news and Miscrosoft could spend billions of dollars in advertising and never get this much good press out of it.
Bill Gates is totally evil and he has and will do whatever it takes to keep control the PC market. ie. anyone know what happened to the Microsoft Anti-trust lawsuit?
No Matter what apple says they will release OS-X for PC's. No company is going to turn down the kind of money and power that would grant apple. Not to mention some else will come up with a way to do it if Apple won't. If Apple doesn't release it themselves they stand to lose alot of money in sales or rather the the lack of sales.
Steve just wants to keep Microsoft off balance, and unprepared for OS-X to compete directly with Windows, so Steve lies about not making OS-X available to PC users. This tactic obviously isn't working. Microsoft is scared to death about the thought that they would have to compete against a completely better OS (One they steal from every release, take look at Vista if you need proof!) These kind of underhanded attacks is basically all Microsoft has left in it's arsenal to compete with Apple. Except of course releasing a OS that works correctly, but why would they do that?
Creating a virus is much easier and cheaper. I am sure they have a workforce hidden away in some thrid world country working around the clock looking for ways to make Apple look bad before Apple can release OS-X for Pc's. Not to mention it is exactly what I would do if I was Bill Gates. Yeah so I might be evil to if I was facing the loss of billions, and incredibile power.
I mean you think Xbox would be anything more then a bad Saga release, if it were not for the popularity of Windows? This attack takes Apple down a peg, which with the power of iTunes and alot of the tech. industry rooting for Apple, since MS. has been such a controlling monoply. Bill gates is starting to realize that Apple can finally win this thing in the late third decade of PC's
-Hart
OK who else thinks this virus/trojan was written by Microsoft? I mean what the virus does is totally out of the norm for normal virus creators. This bad press for apple is just what microsoft needs right now, proof that OS-X can be just as vulnerable as Windows. Of course the problem with Windows is not it's Vulnerability but the fact the it is basically a bad copy of OS-9, completely unstable, but most of the population doesn't know that. But this will be all over the news and Miscrosoft could spend billions of dollars in advertising and never get this much good press out of it.
Bill Gates is totally evil and he has and will do whatever it takes to keep control the PC market. ie. anyone know what happened to the Microsoft Anti-trust lawsuit?
No Matter what apple says they will release OS-X for PC's. No company is going to turn down the kind of money and power that would grant apple. Not to mention some else will come up with a way to do it if Apple won't. If Apple doesn't release it themselves they stand to lose alot of money in sales or rather the the lack of sales.
Steve just wants to keep Microsoft off balance, and unprepared for OS-X to compete directly with Windows, so Steve lies about not making OS-X available to PC users. This tactic obviously isn't working. Microsoft is scared to death about the thought that they would have to compete against a completely better OS (One they steal from every release, take look at Vista if you need proof!) These kind of underhanded attacks is basically all Microsoft has left in it's arsenal to compete with Apple. Except of course releasing a OS that works correctly, but why would they do that?
Creating a virus is much easier and cheaper. I am sure they have a workforce hidden away in some thrid world country working around the clock looking for ways to make Apple look bad before Apple can release OS-X for Pc's. Not to mention it is exactly what I would do if I was Bill Gates. Yeah so I might be evil to if I was facing the loss of billions, and incredibile power.
I mean you think Xbox would be anything more then a bad Saga release, if it were not for the popularity of Windows? This attack takes Apple down a peg, which with the power of iTunes and alot of the tech. industry rooting for Apple, since MS. has been such a controlling monoply. Bill gates is starting to realize that Apple can finally win this thing in the late third decade of PC's
-Hart
How good a programmer is Bill? Oompa Loompa has some sloppy programming errors. Maybe that's a sign that it IS from Microsoft. They really oughta beta test these things more thoroughly, don't you think?Harthansen said:
ChildOL said:
Windows XP has as much relationship to QDOS as OS X has to OS 9 - i.e. almost none. Despite what you think XP isn't a direct descendant of Windows 95/QDOS, it is descended from Windows NT which goes back though to OS/2 - it is a fully preemptive multi-tasking OS with security and networking built in and not bolted on and has been since 1990Link. Remind me again when the Mac got that
Of course you will probably argue OS X is a better designed system, well it should be it is considerably newer - But no matter how good your software is at the start, over time you will find problems - these problems will require patches and because they often have to do things not orginally considered they can make the nice clean design go awol
. But one really strange thing about software, often the most reliable software is the hardest to fix - why the programmers don't spend any time fixing it so don't have a good idea how it works when they need to - often in a hurryNow one of the reasons XP has a problem with security is not because it doesn't have any (it can be locked down pretty well) - but because by default the users were created as admin, does that sound familiar it should from the responses above - but by far the biggest problem is that a lot of software will not run on a locked down PC - bad application programming which was often designed purely for Windows 95/98. Where Apple have been happy to kill off the x% of the old software on new OS releases - MS have always done their level best to ensure it still works - one of the reasons they got in the lead I suspect, if you had to update hardware and software at the same time it gets very expensive.
If you contine you be blinkered about Windows then you will never learn the security lessons from it. And I suspect you might be in for a rough ride soon, switching to Intel could open a new avenue of attack on the Mac - some of these hackers (and I don't mean the script kiddies that generate most Windows malware) will find their tools for hacking X86 boxes might work on OS X, but they will have cheap access to OS X.
It has been amusing to watch debates on the "Virus" - it just proves that the weakest point in any security is the USER
Kelmon said:
it had no file extension. you only had to go into info to see that. under name and extension it said latestpics and that was all, no .jpg, no .app nothing.
this might have already been answered, but if so take this as a confirmation.
Harthansen said:
Best post ever, this has to be one long joke correct? or did I miss something? Or wait, did you miss something?
No one thinks this virus was written by microsoft but you. After all, what would writing a virus and wrisking billions of dollars in business to put a stop to 3% sales of the "DESKTOP" computing market and like .005% of the server market accomplish? (hey you probably don't even realize that servers make up the majority of computer sales - also, PC stands for Personal Computer, is an Apple not owned personally and computed on - or is like a space box that mathutates things?? lol) Anyways besides all that I have a rant of my own, yah a real cover up job by no one other than - SUN.
Solaris is down the tubes, lets get a virii out to scare that small group of mac people into switching o/s's! Maybe even divert some from buying it cause a virus was released.
I hope you all find my post as patchetic as the one I quoted.
Besides that - with such a dominate Operating System that OS X is, and such a threat that is posses to microsoft, why does apple rely on hardware sales and not selling the O/S to everyone and liberate some of these people not wanting to run windows. Sorry - you have to buy your way into the club by first buying our overpriced x86 PC equipment!
Dood your so going to get a dell. Mac's got viriizzz! AND COMING soon APPLE's Y-BOX?
Y? Cause you can't afford it and it won't run any decent games!
Please help! I have a question: When I went to my Symantec widget today, it told me about the OSX/Inqtana.A worm. I clicked on the link given within the widget that took me to the Symantec Security Response page. As I was reading about this worm, Norton popped up and said that it had quarantined the OSX/Inqtana.A worm, which was found in my cache of Safari. After doing some research, that message only popped every time I visited the Symantec page regarding the OSX/Inqtana.A worm. Why is this happening? Can someone people help me? What is going on? When I look in the quarantined list, there are cache files there that have been isolated.
Thank you.
Worried Jason...
Thank you.
Worried Jason...
MeatBiProduct said:
First of all, there is no way servers make up a majority of computer sales- NO WAY ON EARTH!
Second, PC is used to describe what used to be IBM compatible- you even see it used on video game cases for computing- There is often some sort of PC logo and Mac logo if Mac compatible. (BTW I use a game console- not my Mac.)
third, Mac has more than 3% of the market- not much more, but more. All of those new users are from the PC...er I mean Window's market with fed up users.
Fourth, You ask why Apple relies on Hardware sales- yes, they do for income, however more importantly they do it so they can control the quality of every piece of computing hardware that runs their OS so people don't have to deal with so many hardware issues due to lack of quality. NOt that Mac's don't ever have hardware problems, but it is very limited when compared to the PC world. So I have never thought that Apple stuff is really overpriced- personally I have never ever had a hardware issue with the eight or so Mac's I have owned or used in my place of work over a 14 year time period. And no, I have not bought a new mac every two years- just had lots of places I use macs and had multiple mac's at home.
Apple would never ( I hope) provide OSX to run on the everyday PC hardware that people have purchased for $400 or whatever- they have a business model right now that is one of the best in the industry and they would suffer if they put their OS on cheaply made PC hardware.
So I'm correct in reading that Apple has *not* released any sort of patch for this, correct? Seems like if we don't accept transfers from iChat we'll be fine...considering the short range of BT I'm sure we're all OK in that category.
flyfish29 said:
sales doesn't = # of units shipped, it = # of $ made from product.
When a users home computer costs $500-$2000 and 1 server costs, $10,000-$100,000-$250,000-$500,000-$1,000,000 etc. etc etc. you can see how SERVER SALES make up a larger PORTION of MONEY MADE or in lamens terms, SALES. I have worked in purchasing single machines that use up to 64 distributed processors, and server clusters of over 50 machines totaling in around $4,000,000.00 worth of equipment - this was just for hosting app servers at a telco with over 150,000 employees. How much have you and your neighbors within 5 miles spent in the last 10 years? Even near a million?
Yes it makes up the majority of sales. 1 data center could have 100 to 1000+ servers there. Look up the numbers. Get your facts straight.
For the record, 1 decent X-Serve w/ backup unit costs as much as 10-20 desktop's/laptops.
They don't really need to, apple already does it themselves - ever heard of mac mini?
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...CT301x2DnbqR/0.SLID?nclm=Macmini&mco=45974843
Do you think apple is putting $1000 worth of quality hardware into a $499 machine with their O/S?
We would all love to think so, but you get what you pay for. Windows/Linux runs just as crappy on the $400 "PC" hardware. That's an argument from ignorance. Besides that, if someone who could only afford a $400 computer wants to run OS X - that is their business, not yours or apples. They will be the ones dealing with the issues related to such cheap hardware. Most likely anyone wanting to get into OS X would have built their own machine from high quality parts.
It's like saying you think that anyone that owns a sports car should only put the highest octane fuel in it created only by the car company they purchased it from. Even though this exact same car would also operate fine on regular gas from any gas station. It's just corporate greed, nothing more, nothing less.
MeatBiProduct said:
Sales does not necessarily mean dollars- when you talk about dollars it is called revenue or profit- depending on if you apply expenses to the figure. Sales can be reflected in units or dollars. The dictionary defines sales as quantity or amount sold. However, I would agree with you that in dollars I could see where servers would account for more revenue to manufacturers. So there was a misunderstanding there between us.
Yes, heard of mac mini- I was talking about the $400 PC's that have monitor, printer, cpu, side of beef, etc. that you see at walmart, online, on tv, etc. Apple doesn't even put much more than a $1,000 in parts into an iMac and that is including a monitor, camera and more. So I woudln't expect them to, but I don't expect (or want them) to put $200 worth of hardware in a PC set up like I described above because it would suck.
Yes, apple actually does (and has every right to) care if their OS is on crappy stuff. I see it like this- you wouldn't take a porche engine and put it into a VW frame and chassis...oh wait, they did that in the early 80's and the cars sucked! No one every called them a VW- they always called them a Porche...although it was basically a kit car. It gave Porche a bad name when my old 1968 Delta 88 with the 454 engine wipped it for dessert on the strip.
Apple sees the computing market different than M$. Apple wants to produce the entire product where m$ only wants parts of it- in a sense they are simply a supplier (and an after-market producer.)
flyfish29 said:
Wanting something and needing something are seperate.
Apple WANTS you to use it's hardware for quality control reasons.
The industry NEEDS it on their own hardware for more reasons than could be listed in this post.
In life and humanity NEED > WANT.
I can't really compare cars, cause branding isn't something I really care for. When I make a purchase I read the consumer review and product specs and make the purchase accordingly. Like millions of other intellegent people around the world - I don't need someone to shop for me - k thanks.
As far as people putting OS X on a Wal-Mart computer, this is a paradox.
First, wal-mart makes up 0.000000001% of computer sales worldwide - they are not even a contender in the real picture, your just using some lame cop out statement to associate the crapiness of wal-mart with PC's, which for the record they sell HP and Compaq - not wal-mart brand computers. Second, a person who is dumb enough to purchase a computer at wal-mart wouldn't be smart enough to install OS X on it, or even know OS X is available or what it is. The people wanting to run it on their own hardware NOW are obviously smart enough to sercumvent Apple's protection and I would assume smart enough to build their own machines. Anyone that has used a pc for more than a play toy should be able to do this.
What apple is betting is that you're to big of a dumb arse to read if your hardware is compatible with the O/S. On the otherside of the coin, the software shouldn't be so buggy and propriatary that it has 0 portability - which we all know that this isn't true since the O/S already runs on PC hardware.
MeatBiProduct said:
I am sorry- did I sayWalmart makes computers- ummmm NO. I also said like Walmart, on TV, online, etc. See those commas? That means I am about many more companies than walmart here...understand? What I meant by that entire statement was the cheap computers like you see AT Walmart, online, advertised on tv (ie. dell for $499), etc. For clarification purposes, the etc. in that series means other similar types of places.
As far as the want-need goes- It doesn't matter what the "industry" needs, unless you come up with a reason Apple is breaking the law by not allowing their OS on other machines then nothing can be done.
Funny you talk about quality control- that IS how companies make brands...and that is how one usually purchases things that are quality- like you say you do. It is usually done by researching brand names although at times products within a brand are different quality so thr. I don't get where I am telling you what to buy? Please explain. because last time I checked I didn't tell you to buy a mac- I might have said if you want Mac OSx buy a Mac, but I relate that to telling someone if you want a boxer engine in your car then buy a subaru...that is how you get that particular engine.
You can buy what you want- buy a mac with a great OS or buy a PC with another OS. Your choice- I don't care which you buy- just buy what is offered by our free market!
I think I am done- don't like being off topic any more.
OSX Virus!
Simmer down, it's really not a threat to anyone who can, you know, read...
(link moved down, didn't realize this post was moved to this thread)
Simmer down, it's really not a threat to anyone who can, you know, read...
(link moved down, didn't realize this post was moved to this thread)
CNN posted an article on this (but didn't mention the board, bastards). View it here. Promise the previous link is both safe and friendly (just search CNN's "technology" section if you don't trust it).
This may have been posted already, but given the length of this thread, some of you may not have seen it. MacWorld did an interesting test of the virus and found some strange ways in which it works.
As one poster already stated, the real key to most virus/malware are user related.
MacWorld article is here: http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02/17/leapafollow/index.php
As one poster already stated, the real key to most virus/malware are user related.
MacWorld article is here: http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02/17/leapafollow/index.php
More reading for those showing up late in the game.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/17/macintosh_osx_worm_meets_preparedness/
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/17/macintosh_osx_worm_meets_preparedness/
Here is my litte Trojan, Virus, what ever...
If you click on this link:
Don't do that
with Safari (and in your Prefs you allow Safari to automatically open "Save files") a small shell script gets started, printing "Hallo Welt". There is no warning.
What's interesting: If the shell script starts with "#! /bin/bash" there will be a warning. If it starts with "# /bin/bash" (no "!") there is no warning.
If you click on this link:
Don't do that
with Safari (and in your Prefs you allow Safari to automatically open "Save files") a small shell script gets started, printing "Hallo Welt". There is no warning.
What's interesting: If the shell script starts with "#! /bin/bash" there will be a warning. If it starts with "# /bin/bash" (no "!") there is no warning.
I have an OS X virus. (not iChat version) This is what I experience:
It penetrated a security whole in either iTunes, Quicktime, or Firefox, while running Doorstop X firewall and Who's There firewall monitor. I was never asked for permission to download any file. I save the log. A corrupt tiff file was aimed at my ip address which caused an error in my firewall, and then "flushed all rules" and disabled logging. I have amassed a catalogue of files and screen shots of this virus in action. Contact me and I'll post them on a university server. Let me say this is not the iChat virus we've been reading about. I have never once used iChat nor downloaded a compressed file of pics of any type.
After somebody was able to exploit a security hole, the code went to work. I replicated itself as unix daemons that are needed for critical os operation: Configd, and Lookupd, and a host of other files were modified. It immediately changed the rules for net-manager, and made itself the superuser. It installed extra unix executable scripts for a plethora of functions:scripts to clean up logs; to take screen shots; to enable Voiceover, and many, many other unix commands. I found a hidden folder in the /etc/ folder containing screen shots, logs of my user information, including my financial information and a few pictures of my wife taken from her iPhoto folder.
When I burn a CD or DVD, there is a hidden "session" containing var, etc, and tmp folders.
I reformatted my drive and zeroed the data at the university computer lab with the assistance of a mac technician. He assured me this would do the trick. After booting and turning on the firewall, then creating a non-admin user, the virus was still there, took control of the root, disabled the firewall (even though the firewall said it was active), and did it's thing. If I wasn't looking for the virus, I wouldn't know it was there unless I looked at my logs and used a utility to see pouring in and out of my computer. It can disabled Little Snitch.
When I watch the logs I notice it installs firmware for my airport card repeatedly, when not connected to the internet. It may also install other firmware.
I have flattened, zeroed, both computer drives, reset the pram on the motherboard, booted from the Apple Tiger disk -without a hardrive attached to the machine - then watch the logs, there is a process running trying to send a page out to a network, causing network errors to be logged. When I then attach the computer to the internet, the logs show I get hit with a bot, that fingerprints the computer, finds no drive, and reports this. When booted from a DiskWarrior emergency CD toolkit, it creates two RamDisks on the desktop with var/etc/tmp fils.
I ran disk utilities and after zeroing my home drive, I did a checksum. I found there were multiple invisible partitions tittled "AppleHFS_untitled_1" , 2,3, and so on. My iBook has 3 invisible partitions, my home drive has 9 (not talking about the drivers).
I called Apple yesterday. I paid them 50 dollars, to explain the situation. I spoke with several people. Finally, I was walked through the process of zeroing my drive and told to install the software. Afterward, I said "let's do a checksum," The Apple tech agreed. I read the information about these invisible partitions. She immediately gave me a case number, told me I was not seeing what I was seeing, and then quickly got off the phone.
I recently gave a data CD to a Mac friend. He now has the same virus. He never was asked for permission. My home mac got the virus on a limited privileges account. Never booted on the Admin account.
This virus does not act like the one (now two, the Bluetooth version), that I have been reading about. It must have taken a team of engineers to create this bug.
It penetrated a security whole in either iTunes, Quicktime, or Firefox, while running Doorstop X firewall and Who's There firewall monitor. I was never asked for permission to download any file. I save the log. A corrupt tiff file was aimed at my ip address which caused an error in my firewall, and then "flushed all rules" and disabled logging. I have amassed a catalogue of files and screen shots of this virus in action. Contact me and I'll post them on a university server. Let me say this is not the iChat virus we've been reading about. I have never once used iChat nor downloaded a compressed file of pics of any type.
After somebody was able to exploit a security hole, the code went to work. I replicated itself as unix daemons that are needed for critical os operation: Configd, and Lookupd, and a host of other files were modified. It immediately changed the rules for net-manager, and made itself the superuser. It installed extra unix executable scripts for a plethora of functions:scripts to clean up logs; to take screen shots; to enable Voiceover, and many, many other unix commands. I found a hidden folder in the /etc/ folder containing screen shots, logs of my user information, including my financial information and a few pictures of my wife taken from her iPhoto folder.
When I burn a CD or DVD, there is a hidden "session" containing var, etc, and tmp folders.
I reformatted my drive and zeroed the data at the university computer lab with the assistance of a mac technician. He assured me this would do the trick. After booting and turning on the firewall, then creating a non-admin user, the virus was still there, took control of the root, disabled the firewall (even though the firewall said it was active), and did it's thing. If I wasn't looking for the virus, I wouldn't know it was there unless I looked at my logs and used a utility to see pouring in and out of my computer. It can disabled Little Snitch.
When I watch the logs I notice it installs firmware for my airport card repeatedly, when not connected to the internet. It may also install other firmware.
I have flattened, zeroed, both computer drives, reset the pram on the motherboard, booted from the Apple Tiger disk -without a hardrive attached to the machine - then watch the logs, there is a process running trying to send a page out to a network, causing network errors to be logged. When I then attach the computer to the internet, the logs show I get hit with a bot, that fingerprints the computer, finds no drive, and reports this. When booted from a DiskWarrior emergency CD toolkit, it creates two RamDisks on the desktop with var/etc/tmp fils.
I ran disk utilities and after zeroing my home drive, I did a checksum. I found there were multiple invisible partitions tittled "AppleHFS_untitled_1" , 2,3, and so on. My iBook has 3 invisible partitions, my home drive has 9 (not talking about the drivers).
I called Apple yesterday. I paid them 50 dollars, to explain the situation. I spoke with several people. Finally, I was walked through the process of zeroing my drive and told to install the software. Afterward, I said "let's do a checksum," The Apple tech agreed. I read the information about these invisible partitions. She immediately gave me a case number, told me I was not seeing what I was seeing, and then quickly got off the phone.
I recently gave a data CD to a Mac friend. He now has the same virus. He never was asked for permission. My home mac got the virus on a limited privileges account. Never booted on the Admin account.
This virus does not act like the one (now two, the Bluetooth version), that I have been reading about. It must have taken a team of engineers to create this bug.
this story was on cnn(on TV) did not say much other ''then malware is attacking Apple's Mac OSX which is odd becuz the normal attack MS's Window''