The "general" Mac User: My Opinion

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by WeeManFoo, Jul 15, 2008.

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  1. WeeManFoo macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2008
    I am an aspiring computer geek looking to expand my views on the personal computer through my purchase of a Macbook very soon. I have never used a Mac longer than a few hours, but I think that I will enjoy the switch because I have been working in Linux for the past few months, getting used to a non-Windows environment. The biggest obstacle for my switch hasn't been the price, the lack of software, or anything else most people have problems with.

    I have a problem with the "general" Mac community.

    I honestly don't think I have ever found a group of people who are more smug than the Mac community. I have 14 close friends that use Macs and all of them are the same. They ALL believe that because they use a Mac, they are a better human being than the rest of the computing world. Let me rephrase that, they think that they are more worthy than other computer users. I honestly don't care about brand loyalty. I like what is good and I try to stay away from things I don't like. I like Vista, OSX, and Linux all in a different way. I have observed that the difference between me and the "average" Mac user is that Mac users look down on other "PC" users because, in their opinion, they chose wrong by using Windows. I have often witnessed my Mac friend making arrogant remarks about their OS of choice. "Look, they are using a Mac" as my friend tells another during a movie. "Let me show you this, it lets me search all of the files on my computer. Windows can't do that" as my friend tries to sell OSX to me without ever using Vista's search. "Well, you do know Macs are better" after I made a silly joke about Macs...The list goes on with remarks that make all other PC users look like a different race of people, not qualified to use a computer in critical situations because they don’t use a Mac. On the surface, I look like a Microsoft fanboy. I have a botched together Windows PC using Vista Ultimate 64bit with an nVidia 8800 and a flashy LED gaming keyboard. I own an Xbox and an Xbox 360 Elite. I also have an original Zune that I begged for as an early Christmas gift. In reality, I use Linux DAILY, I like OSX for its innovations and ease of use, I am seriously considering getting an iPhone, and I’m not a “hard core” gamer. Even though I don't consider myself a fanboy of any kind, I am generally categorized as one. My Mac friends don't take me seriously when I talk about computers, even though I am more educated about computers than any of them. That brings me to my next point.

    In my experience, my Mac friends are LESS EDUCATED about computers and software than I am. Out of the 14 friends I told you about, I would consider 4 of them as true Mac "geniuses". These people have used computers for a long time, they have run Windows and OSX, and they know a lot about Mac computers. Out of the four, NONE of them have ever even tried Linux. Out of the four, NONE of them have used Vista for longer than 10 min because they trust Lord Jobs when He says Vista is terrible. Out of the four, NONE of them can tell me what the "free" in free software means. Even though these "geniuses" look down on PC users like me as inferior, they never researched any other alternatives to Windows besides getting a Mac. They switched to OSX because it wasn't Windows, not because they knew what they were doing. This is similar to what the Germans did when they supported the Nazi party. They may have been different, but they surely weren’t better. These "geniuses" also don't understand what the hardware in their computer does. I bet that NONE of them can tell me what 3mb of L2 cache means and how it works. This is my personal experience and I know that there are Mac users who know more than I do, I have just noticed a lack of educated Mac users in my life. I really hate that they assume that I am less educated about computers when I have learned so much more than they ever tried to.

    This all ties into my last compliant about the Mac community, and that is the BLINDNESS to anything that doesn't have an Apple logo on it. This is a trait that I have found more recently on the web, particularly youtube. I hope that if you are reading this, that you are not a subscriber to emeek77 on youtube. If you are, I apologize, but I think that he gives the Mac community a TERRIBLE name. I have never seen him talk about a problem with Apple. He has never said a good thing about Microsoft. He THREATENS and DEMONIZES people who challenge his views. He has never really used Linux. Finally, he LIES about Windows to make Macs look better. He has numerous videos about Windows "ruining" computers. He has NO reference to back up his accusations. He has videos about hardware viruses and how Windows doesn't stop them. The article he referenced was written in 1998, long before Microsoft cracked down on security holes and the release of XP and Vista. I challenged emeek when he did a video on how iPhones are the best and "Blackberry's ****ing suck". I cited the lack of video recording, 3g music downloads, and MMS. He responded by bashing me and then saying that the iPhone has video recording, has iTunes in your pocket, and that "MMS isn't a big deal". He looks past its lack of features and basically says that the features it lacks are ok because Apple says they are ok...

    So what? Why should I care about emeek77? In my opinion, emeek isn't the real problem. The problem is the acceptance of the Mac community to emeek and people like him. I always see comments like "keep up the good work, you are right about those viruses" and "Yeah, microsoft sux. OSX OR DIE". If emeek and his thousands of followers are an indication of the Mac community as a whole, then I NEVER want to consider myself a part of that "great" community.

    In closing, it sucks that I have chosen this path. I really like the Macbook, and the price with all of the free goodies for students is just too good to pass up. Sadly, I have no community that I can call my own. Linux users have most of the same feelings I do toward Mac users, so I don’t fit in there if I use OSX. My two best friends are actually Windows fanboys who will categorize me in the same group that emeek is in. Finally, with this declaration, I don’t think I have a place with the general Mac community. Sorry guys, but I really don’t like you at all. If you share my view on the Mac community and thus feel left out, please comment. I think it would be cool if we started our own website together. The “I Cheat on my Mac Forum” where we can discuss our love for everything about computers and can all just get along no matter what hardware or software we use. Someday, I hope that people like emeek and my die hard Windows friends can get along. In the mean time, I am going to revert back to snail mail instead of email, carrier pidgins instead of AIM, and a typewriter instead of a word processor in the hope that the future of computing can be as peaceful as the non-computing days.
  2. Jak3 macrumors regular

    Jul 11, 2008
    Hey man, we are a lot alike (except I don't know what 3MB of L2 cache does...other than it's part of the CPU and it's somehow used by your processor to accomplish tasks faster...see, pretty vague understanding, if correct at all... :D )

    I currently have computer running XP for my games, I'm also looking into a MB (not sure why, but something about it, or OS X is enticing me...) and if I do get a MB I plan on installing Linux on the computer I have in my bedroom (since the MB will be replacing it...poor old bugger :D )

    I haven't really seen that much elitism in computers, yet, but as a PS3 owner I do know what it can be like (I know a guy who got bullied because he owned a PS3 instead of a Xbox 360, the guys who did it are jerks...)

    On the console front, I don't plan on getting a 360 (not many games interest me, nor do I have the money...but if I did, I'm sure it would be much more interesting lol) The Wii is looking quite good, but as well, for the few games it has that I want, I can't justify purchasing one at the moment either...

    I think the elitist are a small minority thought...they are just louder than the masses because the masses are being quiet since they are happy.

    Elitists I think arise from people who, as you mention, make an uniformed decision and are discontented with the product after listening to all the hype and therefore feel the need to defend the piece of crud (in their view) that they are now stuck with, taking out their anger of misinformed decision by making other people make misinformed decisions by spreading lies and untruths, or exagerating an instance into something that is widespread throughout a product.

    But I think you know what you're doing and know what each product is meant for, so I think you can consider yourself a universal citizen who fits in with everyone, even though you don't agree with any, a Jack-of-all-trades!

    Not sure what my initial point to this post was, other than I'm currently having a hard time falling asleep so I came onto macrumors and found this thread and felt like posting in it....:confused: :D
  3. edesignuk Moderator emeritus


    Mar 25, 2002
    London, England
    Problem is people, especially on the internet, are full of s*** and confidence brought about by anonymity. Added to that a lot are teenagers which are already loud, opinionated and generally ill-informed/experienced at the best of times [sorry sensible teenagers of the world].

    You do what you want to do, use what you want to use. Those that blindly bash anything they have no idea about plainly aren't worth wasting your time listening too.
  4. WeeManFoo thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2008

    I don't feel like condensing all of that and it really isn't worth much if you don't read it all. I guess you could just read the last paragraph and get most of what I am trying to say.
  5. chaosbunny macrumors 68000


    Mar 11, 2005
    down to earth, far away from any clouds
    Well I switched to a Cube in 2001 during graphic design college and only bought macs ever since. I even liked OS 9 better than Windows 98 when I got the Cube. A few moments on a PC, or the small Windows Partition I have on my iMac for gaming are enough to remind me why I dislike this OS.

    I have found an environment for my work & spare time on my computers that I enjoy and I'll stay with it as long as it gives me a reason to think in another direction.

    But, and this is the thing that annoys me, I won't state my opinion and experiences as general facts, like a lot of people on this and other forums do. Imo statements like "OS X never crashed on my computer it's so stable" or "Windows Explorer is so much better than Finder because I can do X feature that I use every day" are a plain waste of time to read.

    Don't conclude from yourself to the millions of other computer users. The "OS X never crashed" thing is a good example. Whenever someone writes something about a problem and that the machine crashed there is at least one reply "Well OS X never crashed on my machine" ... what's that got to do with the problem at hand?

    These were just examples but I guess you know what I mean. And it's not only a thing of the Mac platform but many internet forums.

    For the record I'm 28 and have 2 system admin friends who build their own pcs and like windows. And guess what, we get along really well. I understand that it's their job and they like it, it's better for gaming and a little cheaper, and they understand that I like my platform for my gfx design work and for the design. And when we play WoW together it doesn't matter what machine is running what. :)
  6. dukebound85 macrumors P6


    Jul 17, 2005
    5045 feet above sea level
    nobody i know cares what computers one uses. in fact, computers never get brought up amoung my friends as it is not important

    people that judge me by what computer i prefer are not my friends so it doesnt matter lol
  7. BlakTornado Guest


    Apr 24, 2007
    Washington, OH
    Honestly, last year when I was saving up for my Mac, I found myself blindly defending Macs, even though I had never used one for over an hour at a time. I was a fanboy, even though I didn't own the product.
    I argued with PC users about Macs, and basically lost a LOT of respect on a forum that I visited regularly because of it. (So much so that I don't really go there anymore, although there are other factors in my decision as well)
    But when I got my iMac, I sort of shut up about it. There were moments, of course, where me and the other Mac-lovers would occasionally deliberately annoy the PC users by posting stuff about Macs (Like we copied and pasted a huge chunk of text about Snow Lopeard, but changed the first sentence with each post) but it was nowhere near as much as it was when I didn't have a Mac.

    Maybe it was just that I had learnt from my mistakes, I don't know, but the point is, there are a number of people who go around praising OS X all the time but have barely used it, like I did.
    Of course, a lot of people are generally just fanboys and will praise anything because they can, but a lot of people aren't.

    And as far as the whole "bashing PC users, making them seem like a different race of people", well, yes :p that does happen. But not in a serious way.
    I talk to some Mac users and every now and then, the topic of narrow-minded PC Gamers comes up and we say stuff like "Sucks for them, missing out on OS X just so they can waste their lives away playing games". But it's never really meant in a serious way. Honestly, I couldn't care less about what OS people use; it's up to them.

    On your point about the "selling". Well, it's not, really. When I was saving up for my Mac, I used to talk about the features of OS X and stuff all the time to my best friends because they were interested in my switch, and I needed to vent my excitement to them.
    Afterwards I also talked about my iMac because it was new and exciting, and I was desperate to show everyone how awesome it was, and how impressed I was with it.
    Now, the only real times I ever mention Macs now is when the come up in conversation, and even then it's brief. My friends use iTunes, and for example, my friend was trying out Safari for Windows yesterday, so naturally my Mac comes up in conversation about Apple products or computers.

    I would never "sell" a Mac to anyone though unless they were actually seriously interested in getting one. I would of course help my friends or family help pick one that would suit them, since I know about them and what each one does, but I would never try selling them one.

    From the sounds of it, your friends are just interested in their computers, and enjoy talking about them. And it seems their doing it amongst themselves (fellow Mac users) and thus it isn't really a problem. It's only a problem when they start telling everyone they meet to get a Mac.

    Honestly, dude, I wouldn't worry about it. If people judge you because of what computer you use then they shouldn't be your friends. At the end of the day, you support whatever you want to support, and use whatever products you want to use. Don't let the pettiness of some stupid idiots on Youtube put you off your purchase. I'm not going to say "Because it's worth it" or anything, because you can make that decision yourself. But honestly, the Mac community is more than just the fanboys. There's the helpfulness of other users, blogs that let you know about good quality, cheap/free apps, and a group of people who (probably) have reasonably similar interests to you.

    Look around and see for yourself that not everyone here (or on other Mac community sites, etc.) is a stuck-up, self-righteous, Steve Jobs loving sheep.
  8. clevin macrumors G3


    Aug 6, 2006
    Blame apple, it tactically slices and dices the market and puts windows users and OSX users at opposite side. Making fuss over nothing just for its business interests.

    And guess what, also blame SOME mac users, since they actually buy into that crap.

    Apple's PR tactics remind me too much of deceptive political campaigns. Its getting worst. I see backlash around the corner....:p
  9. jackc macrumors 65816


    Oct 19, 2003
    Sounds like your friends are losers.

    And did you just write,
    Way to make assumptions, and why do you have the need to be in a "community" anyway? Most of us are just interested in Macs, that's all. And you'll find plenty of Apple-bashing here too.
  10. kabunaru Guest

    Jan 28, 2008
    The world would be a better place if a person won't be judged on the OS he/she uses.

    OP, I understand what you are trying to say. I guess it's just the nature of some Mac users to be that way.
    My friend uses Windows Vista and Linux and he still likes Mac. I like OS X a lot, like to use Linux once in a while (my friend's computer has a separate account for me) and Windows at my friend's house for gaming.
    Even though I have a bigger preference for OS X, I still like Linux and Windows. Each serve a purpose of their own.
  11. Sky Blue Guest

    Sky Blue

    Jan 8, 2005
  12. aloofman macrumors 68020


    Dec 17, 2002
    Yes, there are some jerks out there within the Mac community. Nothing new there. Then again, there are a lot of Windows users who don't realize there are alternatives, accept whatever crap Microsoft offers them, and don't know how to use their own computers. So it's not like Mac users have a monopoly on blindness or smugness.

    If I may digress....

    Fourteen close friends? Just among Mac users? Really? How close can they be if there are that many? How can you spend enough time with that many different people to consider them close? I guess it's just a different definition of "close friend" than mine.

    And why are you friends with most of these people? It sounds like they don't respect your opinion and you don't respect theirs. That's not what friends do. Not only do you not seem to want to be in this community, it sounds like maybe you don't want to be in that one either.
  13. MrSmith macrumors 68040


    Nov 27, 2003
    Nice articulate post, WeeManFoo. Allow me to be inarticulate. Firstly, remember there are a***holes wherever you go (though remember that's a relative concept). I'm not a geek by any stretch of the imagination, but I have sang the praises of Macs. I find myself wondering when I hear, say, a mother who just wants to use her computer to get a job done and she's talking about the problems she's having with Vista, why she doesn't just use a Fisher-Price Mac. "You use that confusing piece of crap because that's all you saw in the shop. Think for yourself and shop like you would for anything else" kind of thing. In short, "Are you mad?" It's not an elitist thing, but I think the computer market is unique with only two kinds of computer you can buy and 95% buy something that gives them pain. Where else would that happen? That's just my take on it. But, sure, anyone who thinks they're on a crusade needs a whippin'... Or a lay.
  14. WeeManFoo thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2008
    Just to clarify a few things: My friends are my friends no matter what. My 2 best friends, while hardcore Windows guys, will still be my best friends. I just think it is funny that through their experience with the "general" Mac user, they have the same opinion that I do. They just don't like Mac users when they talk about their computers. It is annoying to be belittled by Mac users who think that their choice is the only choice. Most of my Mac friends try to make everybody switch through uneducated propaganda promoted by Apple and people like emeek.

    Again, this is MY opinion that I have made after MY experiences with Mac users in my life and on the web. I have never found a group of people that are so full of themselves for no reason than the "general" Mac community. I know I am being harsh, and I speak to the group as a whole, not the individuals. I know there are good people out there. There were good people in Nazi Germany. This is more of a call to anybody who feels the same way that I do, not a way for me to hate on Mac users.

    PS. I consider my 14 close friends close because most of them are childhood friends that I have had for years, or are fraternity brothers in Kappa Kappa Psi. It may seem like alot, but I really consider these people close.
  15. edesignuk Moderator emeritus


    Mar 25, 2002
    London, England
    Then your friends are idiots, along with all the other over zealous idiots found everywhere. Your blanket assumptions and statements don't make you much better quite frankly. I'm quickly losing sympathy.

  16. chagla macrumors 6502a


    Mar 21, 2008
    i fully agree with the thread opener. i have never seen snob users like mac folks. how can they be so BLINDLY supportive of apple? i think if apple packed crap in a bag and stuck a logo on it, everyone will buy and praise it as the best thing in the world.

    i only have pity for them.
    general attitude (fanboys and fangirls are excluded)
    mac - ew, you use a pc? u must be poor. look at me, i'm a mac user so i'm better than you.
    linux - learn how to code noobs. its geek exclusive, go back to your windows (or mac)
    windows - ah what the hell. who cares.

    generally windows users are not blind supporters. nobody worships bill gates or microsoft. if there were something better at a good price, people will ditch windows and get that. but fact is there is nothing. no matter what you say.
  17. WeeManFoo thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2008
    This is the first time on any forum that I have been chastised by a moderator. This is exactly what I am talking about.
  18. arkitect macrumors 603


    Sep 5, 2005
    Bath, United Kingdom
    That is called ART.
    At least in the UK it is… ;)
  19. MrSmith macrumors 68040


    Nov 27, 2003
    Now there's a considered post...
  20. edesignuk Moderator emeritus


    Mar 25, 2002
    London, England
    uh huh.
  21. WeeManFoo thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jun 3, 2008
    Yeah, and you are a moderator. You should keep the flames down, not add to the fire. Again, this is exactly what I am talking about.
  22. DeaconGraves macrumors 65816


    Apr 25, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    If we mac users are what we say you are then the moderator would have likely locked and banned you already. Quit over-generalizing people.
  23. MrSmith macrumors 68040


    Nov 27, 2003
    I'm a Mac user and I'm not offended. The OP is just trying to enter into a dialogue. As I've already said, if he was trying to troll he would have made a far shorter first post. Let's be reasonable.
  24. edesignuk Moderator emeritus


    Mar 25, 2002
    London, England
    My being a moderator doesn't mean I can't express my opinion right back at you.

    You come here to blanket everyone as being a bunch off stuffy up tight snobbish smug arseholes, proclaiming not to like any any of "us" and you expect me (and anyone else) to just sit here and nod along?

    There are zealots, of course there are. PC mod forums aren't much different. They will slag off Macs for a whole bunch of stupid cliché reasons. Doesn't mean that every PC user on earth is a moron, does it?
  25. bandaros macrumors member

    Jun 21, 2008

    It is true that there are PC "fanboys" who bash the Apple without having ever even touched a Mac in their lives. I agree.

    It is also true that there are Apple "fanboys" who bash the Windows PC's without having ever even touched one in their lives. I agree with that also.

    However, I have to say, that during my short time as a member of these forums (macrumors), I have come to notice that certain mac-enthusiasts within these forums are perhaps a little too incisive with their comments regarding the supposed inferiority of 'alternative' computer and computer operating systems.

    Obviously I cannot say that I have met every single PC user and every single Mac user, because I have not. Therefore, it is impossible for me to make a comprehensive appraisal of the actual state of affairs to which this discussion pertains, but I can speak from my own experience.

    To summarise, it sometimes makes me raise my eyebrows when certain forum members make disparaging remarks about 'alternative' computer and computer operating systems. While PC users do make similarly-themed comments about computer and computer operating systems alternative to theirs, I have never come across such... incisiveness. It seems to me to be a tone of voice befitting the label of "snobbishness", whereas a PC user might simply be branded "coarse".

    All of this is, of course, my own highly-biased opinion, based on my extremely limited experiences with members of both parties.
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