The GPU Does NOT Matter

[Shiner]

This whole thread comes down to purchase justification. Just like 90% of the threads in this forum.

OP enjoy your laptop.

I will enjoy mine.

Forget about the name of the computer from here on out. Apple has to maintain profit margin and the only way they can do this is by cutting out features and then offering a lower price. The average consumer, like the OP, will never need the 9600m. Apple knows most consumers have no idea about the components in their laptop. Thus advertise a pro machine for a price cut but under the hood cut off the balls of the machine.

It all comes down to economics. Apple must maintain a large profit margin on their hardware.

 

[173080]

Both graphics cards are great. I suspect that for a lot of people, the 9600 is in the words of my russian friend (but not his awesome accent) "like using lamborghini to go to the grocery store". If they want it, great.

Yes, and what Apple is doing is like Lamborghini building a 4-cylinder car with more cupholders than gears, selling it for $30,000 and still call it a Lamborghini. It might be more practical and affordable, but it would really piss off everyone who bought a Murciélago.

 

[MBPro2009]

I know very little about GPUs but I've been using Photoshop CS4 on a mac mini with the 9400M for several months and the performance is very good. The only significant waiting occurs when I open or save files. Zooming, rotating and cropping and all very fast even with 4 or 5 25MB+ files open.

 

[Shiner]

To the OP you're completely right, and I've tried to explain that to people. I think in this case though, it's a psychological thing for some people, who have to have the "best". Hey, if they have the cash to blow, better that Apple gets it than some other company I guess. I'm an engineer, so I have the natural engineer's thriftyness about matching the best possible tool for the job for the least amount of money, but not everyone thinks like that.

Both graphics cards are great. I suspect that for a lot of people, the 9600 is in the words of my russian friend (but not his awesome accent) "like using lamborghini to go to the grocery store". If they want it, great.

Only problem with your blind logic is the 9400M is not really a graphics card. I have to add, the 9600 is no lamborghini. More like a honda accord. The 9400M is like a 2 stroke scooter to be fair.

 

[MacLover4491]

pro laptops dont use integrated graphic. You all need to seee this point. Apple try to trick people that they lowered the price but all they really did was introduced a new macbook pro to the line. i dont like the way apple run their business.

 

[uv23]

The thing is people latch on to random statements and complaints without looking at benchmarks and facts, or how it actually will affect them personally. I currently have a 2.33" 15" MBP with a Radeon 1600 and do a lot of photoshop work with no issues. If you look at the benchmarks, the 9400M is more powerful than that card, even though its an integrated solution. I eagerly await my new 13" MBP.

 

[MacModMachine]

Thank you for proving my point: "if you think they are, then you either have no idea what the GPU does,"

The GPU makes no difference in video editing, no difference in photo editing, and no difference in music editing or recording. It makes a big difference in a limited set of engineering programs, like 3D modelling software. So that 0.5/4 areas where discrete is necessary.

Nice try, though.

i can see you understand gpu's well, wait i guess you do....we just buy these high end workstation gpus for nothing..

sigh...

adobe cs4 seems to be running better on my 9600...wait it does...

 

[Dwalls90]

Relax guy. No reason to get all crazy. You use your mac for very easy and playful things like word, email, and surfing the internet. That is great, apple made you a great laptop. They also sell a little better laptop that has ALL of your features plus a better graphics card. Maybe some people will play a game or two. Hell maybe I will actually use my macbook pro to help fold proteins for my job. Either way, you buy your macbook and I will buy mine.

I'm not crazy, but elitists that don't even understand the full capabilities and costs of the hardware they are using, is nothing but obnoxious to observe.

Although I agree about the complaining what you say is technically not true. For example Aperture uses the GPU and you will get a speed boost in that program with the faster GPU. Additionally in Snow Leopard you will see a speed boost in more programs because of the GPU that will have CPU tasks offloaded to it.

Says Who? Apple has made a claim that Snow Leopard is paving the way for such technology - but at the time, their roadmap shows no promises of what this technology promises. By the time OpenCL is used, you'll be buying a different Mac.

And you're right, allowing Aperture to rotate your picture 10-20% faster or allowing the pixels to populate faster must really have warranted a $300 add-on.

The hardware itself should be different in a Plastic vs. Aluminum kind of way.

Why do you feel the need to be better than everyone else? Who cares what it's called? Calling it a "Pro" doesn't enhance it's performance. You are the same people that fall for all of those shallow marketing ploys.

I'm not against Apple offering affordable computers, in fact I think that's great. What I am against is Apple passing off affordable computers as their top of the line models which negatively impacts the brand image for those who paid twice as much.

And so what separates the 13" MBP from the 17" MBP? Oh, that's right, one lousy card slot and a slightly improved GPU.

To the OP you're completely right, and I've tried to explain that to people. I think in this case though, it's a psychological thing for some people, who have to have the "best". Hey, if they have the cash to blow, better that Apple gets it than some other company I guess. I'm an engineer, so I have the natural engineer's thriftyness about matching the best possible tool for the job for the least amount of money, but not everyone thinks like that.

Yep.

This is simply not true. Aperture is GPU accelerated. Motion relies heavily on the GPU. FXPlug plugins in Final Cut often use the GPU. Color is largely GPU-based. There are a fair number of GPU-accelerated operations in Photoshop CS4 now. And OpenCL means a lot more software will probably be leveraging the GPU in the future.

Key word being, future. A very, very distant future.

 

[maflynn]

The 9400 still isn't worthy of the Pro name, because its not among the best. Even the 9600 is debatable.

Oh please that's one ignorant statement. I use Aperture quite heavily, my library is > 75gig (yeah I know I need to split it up) and I've found the performance of the 9400m GPU more then adequate for this so much so, if I had known this before buying my MBP last october, I would have gotten the MB and saved my self a bunch of $$$

Hardware never dictated what a "pro" level machine by apple, the marketing department did. True professionals didn't choose the MacBook PRO because it had those three letters at the end but rather the machine suited their needs Likewise I know a number of professional photographers that used the old polycarbonate MacBook with its anemic intel integrated GPU. They're pros but they didn't buy a machine with the word pro in it.

Its all marketing, people buy computers based on need, well most pros do

 

[173080]

Why do you feel the need to be better than everyone else? Who cares what it's called? Calling it a "Pro" doesn't enhance it's performance.

And so what separates the 13" MBP from the 17" MBP? Oh, that's right, one lousy card slot and a slightly improved GPU.

What entitles me to have a better notebook with higher build quality, performance, priority service, and exclusive design and label?

Well the answer to that is pretty simple: because I paid more. And people who pay more deserve more, it's pretty straightforward.

 

[knownikko]

Damn you Apple! What were you THINKING giving people a CHOICE in the matter by creating a lower entry-level price point and giving it perfectly adequate integrated graphics!

And then you go and put a "pro" sticker on it, causing irreparable harm to the REAL "pro" users who know that in order for a machine to be called "pro" it must be "pro"hibitively expensive and elite!

Guess what? Last week you had one choice. This week you have two. Those with the need (real or perceived) for discrete graphics can still buy a 15" MBP for the SAME price it was available at last week, with a bunch of improvements included for free.

Those that don't have that need (real or perceived) can now get one of the best 15" laptops on the market at a lower price and in a configuration that better suits their workload.

Win-win. What's the issue again? Oh yes, it offends elitist poseurs who get a sense of entitlement from carrying around an expensive piece of consumer electronics whose capabilities they rarely use and often don't understand.

Whaa.

 

[picklesmand]

Oh please that's one ignorant statement. I use Aperture quite heavily, my library is > 75gig (yeah I know I need to split it up) and I've found the performance of the 9400m GPU more then adequate for this so much so, if I had known this before buying my MBP last october, I would have gotten the MB and saved my self a bunch of $$$

Hardware never dictated what a "pro" level machine by apple, the marketing department did. True professionals didn't choose the MacBook PRO because it had those three letters at the end but rather the machine suited their needs Likewise I know a number of professional photographers that used the old polycarbonate MacBook with its anemic intel integrated GPU. They're pros but they didn't buy a machine with the word pro in it.

Its all marketing, people buy computers based on need, well most pros do

yes. I would be willing to bet that 90% of the whiners about "pro" this and "pro" that are only "pro" in their own minds. a real pro would laugh at them.

 

[Philflow]

Instead of this yes-no game, does anyone have benchmarks of the 9600M vs. 9400M in CS4?

I'd like to know how substantial the difference is.

 

[rawdawg]

(Calmness please, I am not arguing, I am asking...)

I just bought a new 17" MBP. Originally I only wanted the 15" since it had the 9600 but jumped the additional $$ to get ExpressCard in case I need that in the future.

I do HD video work in FCS2--including Motion and Color. I have a Canon 5Dmark2 (which has 30MB RAW files) and process them in Lightroom & Photoshop. In addition I'm starting to do a lot of TimeLapse rendering with the huge files from my 5Dmark2.

I really needed an upgrade. Literally everything I read stressed the importance of a discreet GPU. Every professional recommendation, every software's Hardware requirements. On my previous machine I couldn't even open Motion or Color because my Mac didn't support OpenGL.

...you either have no idea what the GPU does.... The GPU makes no difference in video editing, no difference in photo editing, and no difference in music editing or recording...

You are right, I have no idea exactly what the GPU does! I don't have the time to learn every possible detail I want. But how come literally everyone either highly recommends it or straight up says it requires it!

I'm seriously asking because I would have LOVED to save $1000.... Especially on a 13" since I already have a 24" Dell at home. (That's another thing I told was absolutely necessary to have discreet graphics for)

I understand marketing and trying to get a consumer to purchase something better than what they need. But you are outright saying these claims are LIES! Are they? And please know I'm not arguing. I really want to know why there is so much importance placed on discreet graphics in video/photography.

I do absolutely no gaming at all. I bought the 512MB - 9600 for editing because I was told I had to.

 

[173080]

Damn you Apple! What were you THINKING giving people a CHOICE in the matter by creating a lower entry-level price point and giving it perfectly adequate integrated graphics!

And then you go and put a "pro" sticker on it, causing irreparable harm to the REAL "pro" users who know that in order for a machine to be called "pro" it must be "pro"hibitively expensive and elite!

Guess what? Last week you had one choice. This week you have two. Those with the need (real or perceived) for discrete graphics can still buy a 15" MBP for the SAME price it was available at last week, with a bunch of improvements included for free.

Those that don't have that need (real or perceived) can now get one of the best 15" laptops on the market at a lower price and in a configuration that better suits their workload.

Win-win. What's the issue again? Oh yes, it offends elitist poseurs who get a sense of entitlement from carrying around an expensive piece of consumer electronics.

Whaa.

It would be a win-win if the new affordable models were branded differently. Putting them on the same page with the Pro notebooks is where Apple screwed up. Although it seems to be working for them, there are some people out there who just bought a $1200 computer and genuinely think they have a Pro laptop.

 

[MacModMachine]

(Calmness please, I am not arguing, I am asking...)

I just bought a new 17" MBP. Originally I only wanted the 15" since it had the 9600 but jumped the additional $$ to get ExpressCard in case I need that in the future.

I do HD video work in FCS2--including Motion and Color. I have a Canon 5Dmark2 (which has 30MB RAW files) and process them in Lightroom & Photoshop. In addition I'm starting to do a lot of TimeLapse rendering with the huge files from my 5Dmark2.

I really needed an upgrade. Literally everything I read stressed the importance of a discreet GPU. Every professional recommendation, every software's Hardware requirements. On my previous machine I couldn't even open Motion or Color because my Mac didn't support OpenGL.



You are right, I have no idea exactly what the GPU does! I don't have the time to learn every possible detail I want. But how come literally everyone either highly recommends it or straight up says it requires it!

I'm seriously asking because I would have LOVED to save $1000.... Especially on a 13" since I already have a 24" Dell at home. (That's another thing I told was absolutely necessary to have discreet graphics for)

I understand marketing and trying to get a consumer to purchase something better than what they need. But you are outright saying these claims are LIES! Are they? And please know I'm not arguing. I really want to know why there is so much importance placed on discreet graphics in video/photography.

I do absolutely no gaming at all. I bought the 512MB - 9600 for editing because I was told I had to.

you are right...colleges and universities REQUIRE Discreet Graphics it makes a big diffrence when pushing 1080p and high resolutions on external monitors,

 

[richard371]

gawd

Sucks I can't even read these posts fast enough because of the slow 9400m. Come on people I find the Macbook 13 pro to be very pro. if you don't like it then go by a plastic piece of junk Dell. BTW the 9400m is 5x faster the the x3100 so i would say its not bad. Its faster then a lot of older MBPs.

I love the quality and screen of this thing.

Damn you Apple! What were you THINKING giving people a CHOICE in the matter by creating a lower entry-level price point and giving it perfectly adequate integrated graphics!

And then you go and put a "pro" sticker on it, causing irreparable harm to the REAL "pro" users who know that in order for a machine to be called "pro" it must be "pro"hibitively expensive and elite!

Guess what? Last week you had one choice. This week you have two. Those with the need (real or perceived) for discrete graphics can still buy a 15" MBP for the SAME price it was available at last week, with a bunch of improvements included for free.

Those that don't have that need (real or perceived) can now get one of the best 15" laptops on the market at a lower price and in a configuration that better suits their workload.

Win-win. What's the issue again? Oh yes, it offends elitist poseurs who get a sense of entitlement from carrying around an expensive piece of consumer electronics.

Whaa.

 

[Dwalls90]

(Calmness please, I am not arguing, I am asking...)

I just bought a new 17" MBP. Originally I only wanted the 15" since it had the 9600 but jumped the additional $$ to get ExpressCard in case I need that in the future.

I do HD video work in FCS2--including Motion and Color. I have a Canon 5Dmark2 (which has 30MB RAW files) and process them in Lightroom & Photoshop. In addition I'm starting to do a lot of TimeLapse rendering with the huge files from my 5Dmark2.

I really needed an upgrade. Literally everything I read stressed the importance of a discreet GPU. Every professional recommendation, every software's Hardware requirements. On my previous machine I couldn't even open Motion or Color because my Mac didn't support OpenGL.



You are right, I have no idea exactly what the GPU does! I don't have the time to learn every possible detail I want. But how come literally everyone either highly recommends it or straight up says it requires it!

I'm seriously asking because I would have LOVED to save $1000.... Especially on a 13" since I already have a 24" Dell at home. (That's another thing I told was absolutely necessary to have discreet graphics for)

I understand marketing and trying to get a consumer to purchase something better than what they need. But you are outright saying these claims are LIES! Are they? And please know I'm not arguing. I really want to know why there is so much importance placed on discreet graphics in video/photography.

I do absolutely no gaming at all. I bought the 512MB - 9600 for editing because I was told I had to.

I'm glad you posted, you're evidence that this entire GPU confusion is only generating Apple more sales on higher end laptops - when the user does not need a GPU.

 

[CTechKid]

There are a lot of assumptions being made in this thread with regards to OpenCL and how often and how early it's going to have a direct effect on machine performance. Perhaps those people making said claims can provide us with developer feedback that says as much?

 

[PDE]

It really doesn't make much of a difference! I use Aperture a lot and I can't even be bothered switching to the dedicated GPU. The 9400m is more than enough for all my needs and I get significantly better battery life as a bonus.

Now that the 13" has firewire and a good quality screen, that's the portable I want...

 

[Dwalls90]

you are right...colleges and universities REQUIRE Discreet Graphics it makes a big diffrence when pushing 1080p and high resolutions on external monitors,

Can 9600GT's push true 1080P? And when would this be a requirement?

 

[Ploki]

try to hook up a 22" display.
yes i said 22".
and try it with both cards.
its more than marginal performance, and its only 22".
and then again, i have 4gigabytes in my laptop. i like the fact that theyre not hogged by the GPU when i need all of them.
and yes, i do need ALL 4 of them...
try to actually DO something with your computer before you rant

 

[knownikko]

It would be a win-win if the new affordable models were branded differently. Putting them on the same page with the Pro notebooks is where Apple screwed up. Although it seems to be working for them, there are some people out there who just bought a $1200 computer and genuinely think they have a Pro laptop.

Guess what? "Pro" is a marketing gimmick. It means nothing.

Let's face it, you're not the least bit worried about these poor paupers being duped into thinking they got a "professional" level laptop. You're upset because now people can get access to your special club for a lot less than you paid, and that dilutes your image of self importance.

It's a computer. Not a lifestyle.

 

[ltldrummerboy]

To me it's just a three letter word tacked on the end. Sure, they may be taking the work "pro" out of context, but it's still just a computer at a certain price. If they'd called the low-end 15" w/9400m a MacBook then nobody would have made such a stink about it.

That said, I ordered the 2.8Ghz model w/9600m GT. Nearly anything is better than the X3100.

 

[MacModMachine]

hook up a 24" display and try doing any editing....

SLOW SLOW SLOW on the 9400m