The Holy Grail of IDE Hard Drives

[eyoungren]

But Seagate bought out Maxtor and Maxtor purchased Quantum's hard drive stuff... I would think Seagate would be experienced?
What about WD? Are they better than seagate?
What is the best one?

Maxtor used to be great too. I swore by them, but then they went downhill too. Quantum seems to be decent, but IDK. I've got a couple of dead Quantum drives at work.

My personal preference is WD. I cannot say they are the best, but it's what has lasted the longest for me. Almost all of the HDs I have here at home are WD.

 

[bunnspecial]

Seagate used to the drive you'd find in the G4s.

Most of the OEM drives I've pulled out of Graphite-cased G4s have been Deathstars...I don't recall seeing OEM Seagate drives in anything earlier than an MDD(save for some mid-90s SCSI drives, although Apple seemed to prefer Quantum in those days from what I've seen)

G3s and earlier seemed to have either WD, Maxtor, or Quantum depending which model exactly.

I'm just commenting based on observation(and also looking at OEM drives with an Apple on the sticker)...I've certainly not seen or handled all Macs from that era, or even as many as many of the folks on here have, but have seen a fair share of them.

 

[eyoungren]

Most of the OEM drives I've pulled out of Graphite-cased G4s have been Deathstars...I don't recall seeing OEM Seagate drives in anything earlier than an MDD(save for some mid-90s SCSI drives, although Apple seemed to prefer Quantum in those days from what I've seen)

G3s and earlier seemed to have either WD, Maxtor, or Quantum depending which model exactly.

I'm just commenting based on observation(and also looking at OEM drives with an Apple on the sticker)...I've certainly not seen or handled all Macs from that era, or even as many as many of the folks on here have, but have seen a fair share of them.

Well, I won't argue with that because until 2003 I really was NOT paying any attention to what was original or not as I was a PC person until then. But, in most of the jobs I've held, if a drive died and I had to pull it out, it was a Seagate. Perhaps the original drive had died and been replaced.

I will however say this. There is one 100GB HD drive at work that IS a Seagate and was in one of the G4's when I got there. That was 10 years ago and it's still in the G4 and spinning. Been on 24/7 for 10 years and God knows how long before that.

 

[bunnspecial]

bunn, i've had good luck in moving files around on an old ipod via firewire.

I have a couple of FW400 externals that are handy for moving files(and the fastest way to do so, short of target disk mode or gigabit ethernet), but it doesn't help much if the destination computer doesn't have firewire or even the ability to accept a firewire card.

Most every Mac made from about 1988 to 1998 had an external SCSI port, and I can connect an external SCSI ZIP drive to those. It's even handier if they have an internal ZIP drive.

A classic example of where I've made extensive use of ZIPs is when I've downloaded old OSs off of Apple's website. Everything up to System 7.5 is available, but all the downloads are in the form of floppy disk images. The only way I know of to actually do anything with a floppy disk image requires the use of a computer with a built-in floppy(not an external USB, although I have tried) and a pre-OSX operating system.

In those situations, I use a newer computer-anything from the Quicksilver I'm on now on up to my 2011 Macbook Pro-to download the images. I then dump them all onto a ZIP disk(for computers without one built in, I have a handy bus-powered USB drive). I then fire up my beige G3 into OS 9, pop the ZIP disk in its built in ZIP drive, and use Disk Copy to turn the images into physical floppy disks.

Of course, I could put a USB and Firewire card in the G3(I just got a second beige G3 this past week, and it came with a USB card installed-I also have a firewire card or two lying around) but using the ZIP disk is just as convenient.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Why do you hate Seagate? Is something wrong with their quality? I thought they were the top hard drive manufacturer.

I have always had issues with Seagate drives failing. I have no idea what Apple even uses them sometimes. We have just had so many issues with the darn things. Hitachi drives are some of the best. The only other thing I can think of that is as bad as Seagate is Toshiba. I still can never forgive them for the HDs they landed into iBooks and PowerBooks.

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Maxtor used to be great too. I swore by them, but then they went downhill too. Quantum seems to be decent, but IDK. I've got a couple of dead Quantum drives at work.

My personal preference is WD. I cannot say they are the best, but it's what has lasted the longest for me. Almost all of the HDs I have here at home are WD.

My personal favorite is Hitachi---Those drives are rock-solid. Seagate is just horrible beyond belief. And speaking of hard drives: For some reason my MDD freezes intermittently if I have a second hard drive in it. Do you know what could be the cause? Does it have anything to do with the "spin hard disks down" option? It would be cool to stick these two 500GB Seagate IDE drives into it, but not if it's gonna act up again like before. (I know it's Seagate, but better to put them to use, or at least have them sit inside a computer instead of have them sit inside a drawer).

 

[weckart]

My problem is that I actually use the zip drive in my Quicksilver from time to time so don't want to give it up

I play with old Macs enough that Zip disks remain a really handy medium for transferring files around. Even when you're working with a computer that has USB ports, an IDE Zip drive is often faster than using a flash drive over USB 1.1. Plus, it lets you transfer files to pre-USB computers.

I really just need to get a SATA card and throw a couple of big SATA drives in my Quicksilver just for storage...

Heh. I have the 1st gen 250MB usb version. I used it twice. The first time in a library. I was appalled by the racket. One of the noisiest accessories ever. It is one of the few usb peripherals that works with Windows NT4, however. I thought that was cool at the time. No hot plugging, however. I think I forsook it for an LS120. Need to dig that out and see if it is Mac friendly.

I recently acquired the 100MB usb version thrown in with some computers I bought along with a ton of disks. I sort of feel obliged to use them but since even my 5300ce and Wallstreet will boot from a cardbus mounted Compact Flash I would be using them for the sake of using them.

If you have a 2002 Quicksilver, don't bother flashing the sil3112 SATA card. It doesn't seem to like most Quicksilvers. Try one of the other numbers that works.

 

[Altemose]

I've had absolute horrible luck with WD. Seagate is the most solid drive for me, and don't even mention Toshiba. Those drives are total crap and fail left and right.

I have found Western Digital to be the most reliable, but also some of the loudest. I have two USB 2.0 externals by them and they are extremely loud but in good condition. I also have a Seagate USB 2.0 portable external that is going well and has had some bumps along the road but still works fine and finally a Maxtor FireWire 400 drive that is loud but in good shape. I had a Toshiba drive both destroy the platters (giant scratches) and one fully seize. It did not make a grinding noise at all, just one day the computer shut down and I could not get the drive to spin freely when I took it apart.

 

[MagicBoy]

But Seagate bought out Maxtor and Maxtor purchased Quantum's hard drive stuff... I would think Seagate would be experienced?
What about WD? Are they better than seagate?
What is the best one?

The backblaze stats make interesting reading : https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/

This being the internet any mention of backblaze usually gets the hard drive brand fanbois out in force. I'm my experience working in IT for a corporate size organisation that their results hold water.

Seagate's quality has historically been excellent, but has really taken a nosedive in the last couple of years with the 7200.10 and later. On the flipside the IBM "Deathstars" that had the internet spitting feathers ten years ago are now history - the modern Hitachi/Toshiba 3.5" drives from the last 5 years are very reliable.

 

[bunnspecial]

The backblaze stats make interesting reading : https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/On the flipside the IBM "Deathstars" that had the internet spitting feathers ten years ago are now history - the modern Hitachi/Toshiba 3.5" drives from the last 5 years are very reliable.

That's been my experience as well. I'd have no hesitation about using a modern Deskstar for anything, although I have a preference(call it brand loyalty) for Western Digital.

On the 2.5" side of things, I'm pretty sure that the 7200 RPM drive in my DLSD Powerbook is a Deskstar with a fairly recent manufacture date(although I'd have to double check, as I didn't put it in myself and have only had the case top off once and was working on other things). It's been fine, but is loud as heck and sort of bothersome since it sits right under the trackpad.

10 years ago, though, I don't think that the "Deathstar" nickname was at all unwarranted. When I troubleshoot turn-of-the-century Apple products and determine that I'm dealing with a dead hard drive, my experience is that the drive is almost certainly going to be one of these.

 

[eyoungren]

I have always had issues with Seagate drives failing. I have no idea what Apple even uses them sometimes. We have just had so many issues with the darn things. Hitachi drives are some of the best. The only other thing I can think of that is as bad as Seagate is Toshiba. I still can never forgive them for the HDs they landed into iBooks and PowerBooks.

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My personal favorite is Hitachi---Those drives are rock-solid. Seagate is just horrible beyond belief. And speaking of hard drives: For some reason my MDD freezes intermittently if I have a second hard drive in it. Do you know what could be the cause? Does it have anything to do with the "spin hard disks down" option? It would be cool to stick these two 500GB Seagate IDE drives into it, but not if it's gonna act up again like before. (I know it's Seagate, but better to put them to use, or at least have them sit inside a computer instead of have them sit inside a drawer).

Well, I guess this just proves that everyone's experience is different as my own with Hitachi has been horrible.

In any case, the spinning down option could be the issue. I have an Applescript that creates launch daemons that periodically access the drives I set so that those drives never have the chance to spin down. You can turn off the option in Settings, but most drives are hardwired to spin down after a certain amount of use. This script prevents that.

I've mentioned it here before. It's on MacUpdate. Look for Keep Drive Spinning.

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If you have a 2002 Quicksilver, don't bother flashing the sil3112 SATA card. It doesn't seem to like most Quicksilvers. Try one of the other numbers that works.

Really? I ask because I followed the flashing guide here for that. I have the 2001 QS and I've had zero problems. Boots right off the card and everything. Two 1TB drives.

 

[MagicBoy]

Well, I guess this just proves that everyone's experience is different as my own with Hitachi has been horrible.

If you go back to OEM drives in QS era machines then IBM/Hitachi were just dragging themselves out of the bad patch. A Seagate Barracuda IV was a much better choice.

 

[weckart]

On the 2.5" side of things, I'm pretty sure that the 7200 RPM drive in my DLSD Powerbook is a Deskstar with a fairly recent manufacture date(although I'd have to double check, as I didn't put it in myself and have only had the case top off once and was working on other things). It's been fine, but is loud as heck and sort of bothersome since it sits right under the trackpad.

I have never checked the names properly but I always assumed that notebook drives carried the Travelstar moniker, because, well DESKstar. You learn something new every day.

I bought two IBM Deathstars that expired promptly within days of each other. I could not return them as I had lost the receipt. I was furious - the amount of work resurrecting those data they caused me.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Well, I guess this just proves that everyone's experience is different as my own with Hitachi has been horrible.

In any case, the spinning down option could be the issue. I have an Applescript that creates launch daemons that periodically access the drives I set so that those drives never have the chance to spin down. You can turn off the option in Settings, but most drives are hardwired to spin down after a certain amount of use. This script prevents that.

I've mentioned it here before. It's on MacUpdate. Look for Keep Drive Spinning.

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Really? I ask because I followed the flashing guide here for that. I have the 2001 QS and I've had zero problems. Boots right off the card and everything. Two 1TB drives.

I found it. However, wouldn't the "spin HD down" option, if turned off, just be fine by itself? I hear of many people running more than one HD in their MDDs without a problem, and I doubt they all have this program.

 

[cube]

I didn't know anyone made a 750gb...I thought that they topped out at 500. That's good information to know.

Even so, I was very happy to get this one!

I have a Seagate DB35 750GB IDE consumer electronics hard drive in my Cube, which I chose because of the heat and noise constraints.

This is a video oriented drive. I think the Barracuda could be quite faster for this.

If you want something bigger, you need some SATA conversion solution.

 

[weckart]

Really? I ask because I followed the flashing guide here for that. I have the 2001 QS and I've had zero problems. Boots right off the card and everything. Two 1TB drives.

Ah. Harry said someone got it working. Looks like whatever Apple did to the 2002 model killed it. I am not the only one with problems with that card, apparently. My QS will not boot with the card installed in any slot.

 

[eyoungren]

I found it. However, wouldn't the "spin HD down" option, if turned off, just be fine by itself? I hear of many people running more than one HD in their MDDs without a problem, and I doubt they all have this program.

It would. From an OS/software perspective. But doing that won't defeat any hardcoded hardware programming.

 

[cocacolakid]

Maxtor used to be great too. I swore by them, but then they went downhill too. Quantum seems to be decent, but IDK. I've got a couple of dead Quantum drives at work.

My personal preference is WD. I cannot say they are the best, but it's what has lasted the longest for me. Almost all of the HDs I have here at home are WD.

I've had the best luck with WD also. Maxtor's used to be very good. And Seagate SATA's have been good for me since they had that 1TB high failure rate a few years ago. For some reason every Hitachi drive I've ever owned died within a year. Every one. WD bought Hitachi in the last year or two.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Most of my oldest drives are Seagates, and all of them work with the exception of a 500GB SATA drive I bought about 6 years ago. It failed after a few months and I used it as a target at a gun range...at 25 yards the platters actually stopped a 12-gauge slug from penetrating the drive, which surprised be a little.

I have two IBM/Hitachi Deskstar 250GB SATA drives from c. 2006 and they have been dead reliable. Never used an ATA IBM/Hitachi drive though I know their reputation was not the best.

I think the the 230MB drive in my c. 1993 Quadra 610 is a Quantum, and that that drive still runs well. It has a peculiar sound on spin-up that I associate with computing in the mid 1990s.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Awww yeah

Put those two 500GB IDE HDs in my PMG4 MDD. A fourth HD was freezing the machine, so for now it's left at this. But no matter---that's 1080GB total of HD space.

 

[catzilla]

I just pulled a 250GB Maxtor QuickVIEW from my old DirecTvIo, formatted it with a IDE/USB adapter. I'm thinking of using it in my G4 iMac. I have a pair of WD 200GB HD's in my MDD already. I remember buying them at CompUSA for $400 each before a $200x2 rebate. I thought I would never need more storage...

 

[bunnspecial]

Most of my oldest drives are Seagates, and all of them work with the exception of a 500GB SATA drive I bought about 6 years ago. It failed after a few months and I used it as a target at a gun range...at 25 yards the platters actually stopped a 12-gauge slug from penetrating the drive, which surprised be a little.

You've got a few things working against you. A slug does have a lot of kinetic energy, but it's heavy and relatively low velocity(~1300-1500fps at the muzzle). The big diameter of a 12 gauge slug(~.72, depending on how tight of a choke you were using) leads to low sectional density, which works against penetration. Velocity drops off quickly with slugs, too, which also works against. Just for example, Federal shows their 1 oz. Forster-type slugs that give 1300fps at the muzzle drop off to about 1150fps by 25 yards.

I shot up some hard drives earlier this week, and rifles really were the key to punching through the platters neatly. 30-06(USGI M2 Ball), 8mm Mauser(German surplus steel-core) and 7.62x54r(Soviet surplus) all did about equally well. Magnum handguns-in particular the 357 magnum-as well as high velocity handguns(32-20 and my "magnumized" 45 Colt handloads) did decent. I'm picking up a 327 Magnum this week that I've had on order since the summer, and I'll be interested to see what a 100gr .312 caliber bullet moving at 1500fps can do to a hard drive.

 

[eyoungren]

Put those two 500GB IDE HDs in my PMG4 MDD. A fourth HD was freezing the machine, so for now it's left at this. But no matter---that's 1080GB total of HD space.

I saw your post on that yesterday, but I have no answer for you so I did not respond.

I do find it curious though that when my QS was up at one point I had five drives running internally with no issues. Two SATA, two on the main IDE bus and one in the ZIP drive slot. Technically, that only amounts to three on the bus (not four like in yours) but other than my heat issues I didn't have any problems.

Wonder what the problem with having four is. There have been other users here with six drives on an MDD and no issues so I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You've got a few things working against you...

All true. Still, it was a saboted slug in a 3 inch magnum shell, I thought it might have done a bit better. And a slug will blow a drop forged padlock to pieces instead of just putting a hole in it (like a rifle will), so they are useful. A 7.62x39mm round went through the same drive like a hot knife through butter. If you want penetration, a rifle is always the way to go. I have some 1947 Turk 8mm Mauser ammo that is pushing 3000fps; it will put a hole in a manhole cover pretty much every time at 100yds.

An hilarious digression.

Remember kids, don't try this at home! (or at least make sure you use a broken drive, there is no point wasting a good vintage Mac-compatible drive at the gun range.)

 

[robertdsc]

My MDD in action:

5 of the six drives are intact. The sixth drive is partitioned to store the OS on one side and free space on the other.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

I saw your post on that yesterday, but I have no answer for you so I did not respond.

I do find it curious though that when my QS was up at one point I had five drives running internally with no issues. Two SATA, two on the main IDE bus and one in the ZIP drive slot. Technically, that only amounts to three on the bus (not four like in yours) but other than my heat issues I didn't have any problems.

Wonder what the problem with having four is. There have been other users here with six drives on an MDD and no issues so I don't know what to tell you.

I was thinking it could be SOME kind of problem with the jumpers. However, I know for sure that one of them was on cable select, and the other was on slave or something.