The Internet is screwing design.

Discussion in 'Design and Graphics' started by ForesterDesign, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. ForesterDesign macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    #1
    Catchy eh? Hows it going everyone? I'm wondering people's opinions on a certain topic:

    With the wonderful tool that is the internet, what about it's negative impact on the design world of plagiarism, "download" designers that simply read tutorials and feel they are professional and then lowering the worth of actual professionals by offering cheap work, or possibly just the fact that any work can be published now too simply?

    Just seeing what everyone thinks.

    Thanks!
     
  2. r.j.s Moderator emeritus

    r.j.s

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Location:
    Texas
    #2
    While there may be more designers out there, I think when it comes down to it, the ones with real talent and skill will actually shine through. You can tell amateur work from work done by someone with years of experience and education.

    Here's food for thought, what is the difference between teaching yourself through tutorials and taking courses on design if you are learning the same core principles?
     
  3. JNB macrumors 604

    JNB

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Location:
    In a Hell predominately of my own making
    #3
    I had to check the thread wasn't originally posted in 1995. ;) Bad design has been around as long as there have been "tools" to automate or simplify it. Powerpoint is another that has bastardized the concepts and lessons of good design in presentation. FrontPage, Punch Home Designer, any & every consumer- or near-consumer level product has dumbed down the rules and processes that go into the foundation of good design, focussing instead of discrete elements with no thought to the proper means of combining them.

    Hey, I'm as guilty as anyone, but at least I'm aware my results aren't anywhere near trained, professional quality.
     
  4. ForesterDesign thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    #4
    Good point

    I don't necessarily agree...while those of us who went to school and learned principles of design, a tutorial merely teaches a "style", right? Those tutorials are very helpful to achieve what you are looking to do, but they can't teach principle in my opinion. I totally agree with what you say about real design will be timeless, but it does nitch me that we often get undercut by a "designer" who has taught themselves how to use sunbursts and downloaded fonts.
     
  5. AndrewLyle macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2008
    #5
    I think that's a pretty elitist attitude. You should be happy that people are thinking about design. It is something that many people didn't consider as an option until very recently. I personally believe that an understanding art/design is crucial to problem solving in many other fields. Publishing work via the internet is the best way for the most amount of people to exercise that curiosity and excitement.

    If you feel that people are copying your work, be happy, its a compliment
    If you feel your losing money because of it, own the rights to your work, and sue.

    People use tutorials because it is a learning process, not plagiarism

    Dont be mad at the world because its changing. It should inspire you to differentiate yourself from the crowd.

    Kodak didn't kill photography by making cheap, accessible film on plastic rolls, they REVOLUTIONIZED photography and changed the course of history


    (sounds harsh, but it was a one breath reply)
     
  6. ForesterDesign thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    #6
    For sure!

    Many good points, I'm actually writing a paper on this topic, and figured everyone would be able to offer some sort of insight towards it. Thanks for the response!
     
  7. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #7
    • Are you coming to an Internet bulletinboard to complain about the Internet?
    • Are you saying that the Internet is responsible for bad design?
    • Are you saying that the Internet is responsible for plagiarism?
    • Are you saying that only professional designers should be allowed to design products?
    • Just what are you saying?
     
  8. ForesterDesign thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    #8
    Haha

    No, my friend. Just seeing peoples opinion on the internets impact on design. Surely that can't all be wonderful? Or can than they? What are yours?
     
  9. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #9
    Plagiarism is as old as the hills. Frankly, it's how a lot of aspiring artists learn their trade. For example, consider the endless hours of life drawing classes spent trying to precisely 'copy' the subject plonked in front of them. Plagiarizing Mother Nature, no less!

    I do agree that it's too easy to publish any old rubbish nowadays, but the onus still falls on the audience to reject it (in much the same manner as an audience will readily boo a poor stand-up comic). Of course, if the audience doesn't have a smidgin of art education to work from, then it's difficult to tell good from bad. People play safe, keep quiet, and the crap design doesn't get the panning it so roundly deserves. And I think that's the root of the problem: Schools now are too focused on mainstream job-related subjects to the detriment of the arts.
     
  10. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #10
    Good point. The fact is that the "learning process" was previously confined to the art school. Mistakes were never seen outside, let alone published to the world like they are now.
     
  11. r.j.s Moderator emeritus

    r.j.s

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Location:
    Texas
    #11
    Now, they are published for some to laugh at, and others to think, 'Hey, I like that. I need that guy to design something for me.'
     
  12. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #12
    Indeed. And I'm sure they're very happy with the result :rolleyes:
     
  13. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #13
    Lot of elitism in the air round these parts.....
     
  14. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #14
    Nothing wrong with that. How else are standards raised?

    Take the US Marines, for example. Elite? Certainly. Good at their job? The best.
     
  15. ForesterDesign thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    #15
    Is it elitism?

    Not to totally fuel the fire...is the elitism you talk about designers being proud of their education and achievements or is it just the snobby attitude?
     
  16. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #16
    I'm talking about the trash talking about those who design for fun that don't match up to the standards because they havent gone to some design school.
     
  17. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Location:
    Atlanta, USA
    #17
    I took it to mean competent/expert. I know what you mean about the snobby attitude however. They're a minority and I don't have time for them: They're often phoneys or just bad at expressing themselves. They prey on the ignorance of their audience.
     
  18. Milfette macrumors newbie

    Milfette

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Location:
    Canada, igloo street
    #18
    I dont think its an eliteist thought at all. Kodak may have brought us camera's but when did i miss the memo that if you tilt your camera and make the picture black and white its art

    I love that the internet has made it easy for people to know why you cant possibly condone a spinning gif at any time but no blog or content manager has a "that text will be impossible to read, the page has no flow" filter.

    and thats where the trained designers will shine though.
     
  19. AceWilfong macrumors regular

    AceWilfong

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #19
    Don't you think you'd get a much more accurate and informative answer if you were to solicit the advice of an established professional?:cool:
     
  20. ForesterDesign thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    #20
    No Way!

    Hahaha, I love hearing all the different opinions. If anyone is wondering, I am a design student...at a public university (haha, don't worry, I do my best to keep the snob appeal away). This topic has interested me for the longest time and I figured I'd pop in and get the uncensored truth! Yarrrg!
     
  21. junker macrumors 6502

    junker

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Location:
    An obtuse corner of the Triangle
    #21
    I don't think MrMe is trying to be funny - very astute clarifications. And you laughed at him with no answer... you're not participating in this intellectual exercise.

    As I read through this thread, I started to wonder the point of your question - and I suddenly realized your basically trolling with a straw-man argument (the argument that the internet and it's accessability to tools and media are to blame for bad design/low wages).

    Do you really believe that design is somehow lessened by this access to more stuff/education? I mean that is underlying statement.

    Someone made the comment that : (to paraphrase)"...it should encourage you to get better stand out. "

    You offer no real insight or ideas any further than someone spewing anger about outsourcing or illegals taking construction work from "Real Americans". I feel like you had a brain fart thought and wanted to stir up the "masses" for your own entertainment. Sure I get it - it's entertaining, I do it too sometimes - but I had to call you out.

    What are YOU thinking/advocating? Shutting down the internet?
     
  22. ForesterDesign thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    #22
    Thanks for the reply!

    This thread was not a brainfart nor am I trying to stir up the masses...I'm legitimately wondering what people's thoughts are (if any) on the internets role in design. I personally have come to feel slightly negative towards it, but then again, if I state my reasons I now seem elitist. No worries on calling me out, I am just interested in people's responses. I am all for the creative's getting information and furthering themselves with tutorials and tips online, but I can't help but realize how muttled the graphic design industry has become, and I can only add that the internet has a lot to do with that. Am I posting on the internet about this discussion? Yes. However, I know that professionals,creatives, and all others use this site and would be interested in other peoples responses also.
     
  23. ezekielrage_99 macrumors 68040

    ezekielrage_99

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    #23
    Bad design is still bad design with or without the interwebs....

    However I do think the old spec design "contest" are promoting bad practices for the industry as a whole, this promotes nothing more than cheap concept which hurts designers, software companies and the client.

    The internet I mostly think it's been a positive to design, international reach for small companies, new/emerging technology and a wider view of cultural art differences are always good from inspiration.
     
  24. opeter macrumors 65816

    opeter

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Location:
    Slovenia, EU
    #24
    Have to fully agree.

    Here, where I live, we only have about 20-25 minutes/week the so-called "drawing/art" subject in elementary schools. The same goes with "music" class ...

    How can these children - once they grow up - know and tell, what good/bad art is, what the classical value is?

    1.) Yes, it seems so.

    2.) No, but it has a piece in the so called "everyone can be a designer" movement (the same goes for books, etc. - written/made by designers for designer and beyond them)

    3.) For plagiarism? No. But again, it has a negative impact too. It was never so easy to copy/get any type of images/photos/musics/texts etc. as it is in the last 10 years (and counting)

    4.) Maybe. Why can't I play a lawyer or be a doctor in any of the Hospitals if I don't have any of these type of educations/degree?

    5.) I think, the OP is quite clear about what he is trying to say. Or not?
     
  25. stainlessliquid macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    #25
    I find that art forums and being involved with a community is far more valuable than anything learned in school. Tutorials/classes teach you technical skills, a community teaches you whats good and whats bad and most importantly keeps you up to date. All the latest design trends dont start from some book or class, they start in the design community and work their way into professional application. The internet accelerates your growth by allowing you to participate with designers from all over the world and learn things you would never learn in school.
     

Share This Page