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ffakr

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2002
617
0
Chicago
....
I'm paying apple way more than I should for an inferior product hardwarewise. Why?

Buy a Dell. I recommend plenty at work, I just bought one for my Uncle. They're perfectly fine computers.

I, on the other hand, think Macs are well worth what my employer pays for mine :) (and worth what I paid for my mother's).

Ffakr (on my employers 15" Macbook Pro w/ 3GB ram.. Yea work!!)
 

Freyqq

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 13, 2004
4,038
181
yeah..i agree completely

games are very scalable these days and sure..you can run bioshock on an imac. It will run. It won't run well..or as well as a 1500 PC vs your 1500 imac, but it will run.

You can game on an imac.

BUT

it will not approach the gaming of a PC. Not the price and not the performance.
 

Freyqq

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 13, 2004
4,038
181
Buy a Dell. I recommend plenty at work, I just bought one for my Uncle. They're perfectly fine computers.

I, on the other hand, think Macs are well worth what my employer pays for mine :) (and worth what I paid for my mother's).

Ffakr (on my employers 15" Macbook Pro w/ 3GB ram.. Yea work!!)

eh i would build my own..but my mbp is enough for me. I just hook up a 24" monitor and a bluetooth keyboard and a wireless mouse and I'm good to go. It's plenty portable too. I get fine fps in the few pc games i even play. In osx, it can handle anything I've done with it.

mbp 2.2 stock is a good computer
 

CalBoy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2007
7,849
37
apple's share prices are driven marginally by their macs

it is obviously driven more by ipod, iphone, etc sales

take the recent delay of lepoard for example..or the complete neglect of the mac mini......

Ummm...Macs made up 60% of Apple's revenue last quarter. Maybe you need to do some research before you make blanket assumptions. The iPod does well, but Macs have retaken center stage when it comes to revenue and potential growth.

I It really doesn't make much sense for them to cater to that crowd, as there just isn't software available.

Nor are there many PC gamers left. That market is so small, it would cost Apple more to create those machines than it could possibly earn in revenue. Apple is doing the right thing by staying out of it.

Apple's product line is a thing of beauty. It begs people to spend more than they had planned. The steps between models and product lines are small enough to encourage people to bump up their buy. It's really, really well done, and I don't think Apple ever gets enough credit for this. No other computer company makes it so easy or compelling to spend just a little bit more. As a shareholder, I absolutely love this.

I love it too. From a simple consumer standpoint, it represents an easy to follow line. If I'm looking for a portable, there are only six options that progressively add more features. If I want a desktop, the same rule applies. It's easy, it's clean, and it's clear. It's much easier than trying to figure out other PC makers' lines. They have ten digit model numbers with only slight variations between them. Sure, that's much better:rolleyes:
Great post MikeL:)
 

ModestPenguin

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2006
437
0
OKC
Who cares? Buy what you want and shut it up.

P.S. The Mac Pro needs an update. Not video cards specifically before we start assuming.

P.S.S. MikeL, chill with the high and mighty "you aren't there yet" it is the Internet man. Seriously.

Good advice.

P.S. P.S. stands for post script.

P.P.S. P.S.S. stands for post script script.

P.P.P.S. P.P.S. stands for post post script and is what you meant.:D:D:D
 

Freyqq

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 13, 2004
4,038
181
...

again..this was never a..apple is abandoning gamers...rant

good hardware can be used for a lot of other applications

There are people that buy high-end systems that don't game..

furthermore, the better your hardware is when you buy it..the longer the computer should last

desktop components are CHEAPER than laptop components and provide GREATER performance..going back to my imac argument.
 

sndcj1

macrumors member
May 22, 2007
90
2
Chicago
You literally CAN NOT buy a mac pro that has the specs of a good high-end PC. It doesn't matter how much you are willing to pay.

Besides the graphics card, which I think everybody agrees needs a bit of a bump, what part of a mac pro is not in the same league as the PC counter parts? Is it the processors? The 8 cores @ 3ghz that you can not configure on a dell? The 16 gigs of ram limit? I realize that can cramp your style, but since you are saying 1000 bucks is a bit of cash, I don't see you putting in a bunch of fully buffered 2 gig chips into anything you are building. You do realize there is a difference in the woodcrest line of workstation processors, and the standard core 2 duo, right? Newegg sells a single woodcrest 2.66 dual core for $722. A pair of those, and a motherboard to throw them on, runs you almost $1700. No ram yet, no graphics card, no cooling, no case, no power supply, no keyboard, no mouse. Until the Penryn based processors come out, nobody is building a substantially more powerful desktop than the mac pro, and apple will probably update their line at the same time.
HOWEVER, it is an extremely overpriced gaming machine, with a sub-par gaming graphics card. Yes, a 1500 self built machine with a single dual core processor and an 8800 gtx graphics card will probably beat the pants off this machine in clocking frames per second in any game. So what has this exercise proven? Apple doesn't build gaming machines. Hasn't since that powerhouse in gaming market, the Pippin, and probably won't put much effort towards that in the future either.
 

queshy

macrumors 68040
Apr 2, 2005
3,690
4
Apple won't ever release a midrange tower because they love the all-in-one factor - SJ even said that's the better way to go on august 7.
 

ezekielrage_99

macrumors 68040
Oct 12, 2005
3,336
19
There isn't one, its a troll post.

I was waiting for a reply, but it seems as though the trolls can dish out the anti-apple stuff on a mac forum but can't give a reasonable response for a reasonable answer.

It's another one of those Dell vs Apple threads....
 

Freyqq

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 13, 2004
4,038
181
I play games on my iMac and it's pretty darn good, I'm guessing I'm missing the point of the post?

you can play pong pretty darn good on a pentium 100mhz

the point is.....:

yes the imac can play games...it was never my point to say otherwise

but

it can't perform in anything the way a real tower desktop can because it is using expensive laptop parts versus cheap and more powerful desktop parts - yet..you are playing a desktop price for a desktop machine. It makes no sense except for asthetics..which if you read the original post don't really make sense..

you guys have been completely contorting my argument and my points

remember I own an mac too..i'm not some troll that needs to be shunned..i have a pretty solid point. Mac desktops, not laptops, simply not worth it.
 

ezekielrage_99

macrumors 68040
Oct 12, 2005
3,336
19
you can play pong pretty darn good on a pentium 100mhz

the point is.....:

yes the imac can play games...it was never my point to say otherwise

but

it can't perform in anything the way a real tower desktop can because it is using expensive laptop parts versus cheap and more powerful desktop parts - yet..you are playing a desktop price for a desktop machine. It makes no sense except for asthetics..which if you read the original post don't really make sense..

you guys have been completely contorting my argument and my points

remember I own an mac too..i'm not some troll that needs to be shunned..i have a pretty solid point. Mac desktops, not laptops, simply not worth it.

I have a 20" iMac with 3GB RAM and it runs WoW fine, I also play COD2 and few others of the newer games and I have really had no problems.

That's why I question when someone says you can't be a gamer on a mac it puzzles me a little.

I do understand that Apple uses the laptop parts so they can fit everything in without the machine overheating, I know it a practicality thing as well not just for the overall aesthetics of the iMac design.
 

rickag

macrumors regular
Apr 9, 2001
153
0
I love these threads. They speak to a niche market. Apple just doesn't chose to compete for the hardcore gamers. They never have, and likely never will. It really doesn't make much sense for them to cater to that crowd, as there just isn't software available.

This kind of post also shows a lack of sophistication when it comes to marketing. Apple's product line is a thing of beauty. It begs people to spend more than they had planned. The steps between models and product lines are small enough to encourage people to bump up their buy. It's really, really well done, and I don't think Apple ever gets enough credit for this. No other computer company makes it so easy or compelling to spend just a little bit more. As a shareholder, I absolutely love this.

Apple isn't a discount brand. They never will be.
I'm also an Apple shareholder and I disagree with you. First off, the AIO iMac and Mac minis also represent a niche markets. Look around, what % of the market are AIO computers? Very small indeed. The most common desktop computers sold in the US and Worldwide are towers of some form.

You may be right that Apple's line-up is a thing of beauty but it does have a gapping hole in the desktop line-up. These threads occur in virtually every Mac centric bulletin board, why do you think that is?

Saying these posts show "a lack of sophistication when it comes to marketing" is pure arrogance on your part. No one has convinced me, nor the inumberable other posters pointing out this hole in the desktop line-up, that Apple couldn't sell more computers and be just as profitable as they are now.
 

rickag

macrumors regular
Apr 9, 2001
153
0
This argument has been had. At the end of the day, it's always from a gamer, whom Apple really doesn't cater to. Nor should they, if it increases the price I pay.
I'm not a gamer and I contend that there is indeed a gap in Apple's desktop line-up. I'm not alone either.
 

rickag

macrumors regular
Apr 9, 2001
153
0
except its growing faster than any other leading PC retailer. :rolleyes:

Not in desktop sales.

Quarterly Report_______Desktops in 1000s
12/25/04__________________623
3/26/05___________________608
6/25/05___________________687
12/31/05__________________667
4/1/06____________________614
7/1/06____________________529
12/30/06__________________637
3/31/07___________________626
7/25/07___________________634

Apple sold more computers in the 4th fiscal quarter of 2005 and the following 1st fiscal quarter than they have in 2007.
 

rickag

macrumors regular
Apr 9, 2001
153
0
Apple won't ever release a midrange tower because they love the all-in-one factor - SJ even said that's the better way to go on august 7.
Unfortunately, you are spot on here. Apple will probably never offer an mid range Mac tower, ever again.
 

MikeL

macrumors 6502
Jan 22, 2003
297
1
Bloomington, MN
I'm also an Apple shareholder and I disagree with you. First off, the AIO iMac and Mac minis also represent a niche markets. Look around, what % of the market are AIO computers? Very small indeed. The most common desktop computers sold in the US and Worldwide are towers of some form.

Gosh, you're right. The most common desktop computers sold in the US and Worldwide are towers of some form running Windows. Apple is clearly off the mark.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,929
265
Gosh, you're right. The most common desktop computers sold in the US and Worldwide are towers of some form running Windows. Apple is clearly off the mark.

And just how many of those are for high-volume business sales; a market that Apple shows little interest in?
 

CalBoy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2007
7,849
37
I'm also an Apple shareholder and I disagree with you. First off, the AIO iMac and Mac minis also represent a niche markets. Look around, what % of the market are AIO computers? Very small indeed. The most common desktop computers sold in the US and Worldwide are towers of some form.

You may be right that Apple's line-up is a thing of beauty but it does have a gapping hole in the desktop line-up. These threads occur in virtually every Mac centric bulletin board, why do you think that is?

Saying these posts show "a lack of sophistication when it comes to marketing" is pure arrogance on your part. No one has convinced me, nor the inumberable other posters pointing out this hole in the desktop line-up, that Apple couldn't sell more computers and be just as profitable as they are now.

Let's assume Apple develops a tower aimed at the market you're describing. The costs wouldn't be too high for development because the tower that's used for the Mac Pro could be used in a slightly altered form. Now, it would come down to guaging the market.

Apple already sells more notebooks than it does desktops; I believe the ratio has come to nearly 2:1 now. So, we already know that the desktop market is gradually shrinking. Mind you, it will probably level off at some point, but it will probably level off at something around 20% of any company's total sales. Knowing this, why would Apple commit the resources to develop a product whose market is gradually being eaten away? This is one nail in the coffin for your tower.

Now, let's assume that Apple would be able to develop the tower and make enough sales off of it in order to pay off sunk costs like design, marketing, production of the first ten thousand units, etc. Would the product continue to sell in numbers great enough to give Apple it's 25%+ profit margin? Since the iMac starts at $1200, and the Mini ends at $800, Apple would have to somehow convince buyers to forgo the built-in display, and cough up more money for a what is essentially a better Mini. Since $1000 seems to be a good in between marker, let's say that's the entry price for one of these towers. How many consumers do you think, aside from yourself, would go into a store, look at a $1000 machine with no moniter, and then at a $1200 machine with everything built-in, and say, "I want the $1000 machine."? There's a major conflict in terms of price points and features. Granted, the $1000 tower would be more powerful than the iMac, but how many average consumers are going to think about this? For the average computer know-nothing, it's easier to buy everything in a single package. This tower only appeals to those who are going to game, or who need a powerful desktop.

Well, I have good news for you. You can get the powerful desktop, it's called a Mac Pro;)

Not in desktop sales.

Quarterly Report_______Desktops in 1000s
12/25/04__________________623
3/26/05___________________608
6/25/05___________________687
12/31/05__________________667
4/1/06____________________614
7/1/06____________________529
12/30/06__________________637
3/31/07___________________626
7/25/07___________________634

Apple sold more computers in the 4th fiscal quarter of 2005 and the following 1st fiscal quarter than they have in 2007.

No PC maker is doing well in desktop sales, esspecially to home users. By far, most desktops that are sold are sold to the business market.
PS: merge your posts next time by double-quoting.
 

rickag

macrumors regular
Apr 9, 2001
153
0
I was waiting for a reply, but it seems as though the trolls can dish out the anti-apple stuff on a mac forum but can't give a reasonable response for a reasonable answer.

It's another one of those Dell vs Apple threads....
It's not about Dell vs Apple. It's about the hole in Apple's desktop line-up.
 

Rhosfelt

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2007
1,380
1
I don't want to be raped :(
My iMac kicks ass.. Especially in the gaming department, the only cpu I can't beat is the one my friend built himself, which is completely understandable, because he has a 2.5ghz duel core (which i gave him..), and a BFG GeForce 7900GS OC video card.. And yet he barely beats me.

I paid 1900 and when you think about it great deal to me..I don't know what you are talking about. My iMac is seriously one of the fastest computers i have ever used. Aside from my friends G5, and that is barely faster.
 
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