I agree 100%. I keep thinking [even now] that Apple will bring us a beautifully competent new MP <sigh>. To be fair, the Studio is the beautiful solution for the likes of me, and I now watch the MP out of nostalgia. And perhaps part of the issue is that the Mac computing world just changed away for the better from the old modular towers that were so convenient, IDK.
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MP All Models The Mac Pro is Dead, This is the End?
- Thread starter MoonCakeTropics
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It’s been this way with the enterprise many core processors forever.
Xeons have always clocked lower than the smaller parts and are always lagging the process tech used in consumer. Because as above, the bugs in the process and cpu design get shaken out in consumer lower end parts first.
Ditto for the amd epyc CPUs I have in the cluster at work. 32 core, 3.7ghz.
No, they got to there by employing business practices that were frequently criminal at the time they were done, and are increasingly being criminalised for harming markets and consumers.
So as long as you don't consider committing crimes to be mismanagement, you are correct.
It’s not just the Mac world.
The Mac is the first but large unified memory is the future. Because copying memory from pool to pool is inefficient and slow. And memory bandwidth is difficult to scale; in the past 30 years we’ve seen CPU clock start at the same as memory clock speed and progressively the multiplier has increased and cache has increased. Because memory can’t keep up.
PC will follow suit and you can already see the start of it with amd strix point.
Just like math co processors, audio processing, etc., graphics will move into the SOC or maybe even into the memory itself.
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We fully disagree. My background includes an MBA from perhaps the most liberal of the top tier unis, my political leanings are liberal and I pay attention to corporate ethics but I strongly disagree with commentary about Apple saying that "they got to there by employing business practices that were frequently criminal at the time they were done."
Apple is a convicted antitrust violator from when they lead a conspiracy of publishers to fix the price of eBooks. They were convicted and fined over labor hire practices when they engaged in illegal agreements with competitors to not poach staff from each other, they have been repeatedly convicted of illegal practices with regards to executive remuneration, employee retaliation in labour relations conflicts, etc. One of their senior executives is likely going to trial soon for bribing public officials in order to obtain concealed weapons permits for Apple security staff. Then you can get to the entire binders full of environmental law violations, operating illegal silicon foundries in residential neighbourhoods, improper industrial hazardous waste storage and disposal etc etc.
Then there is their fundamental business model being brought into question, and found to be counter to local laws in multiple jurisdictions all around the world.
If you want to disagree with reality, that's up to you, but when a company repeatedly breaks the law, when it has a giant in-house legal department whose sole purpose is to know what the law is, then the only reasonable conclusion to draw is that the company's strategy is to act in an illegal fashion.
My first 2019 Mac Pro was a 16 core 3.2ghz which would turbo-boost to 4.4ghz. I upgraded it to a 28 core W3275M Xeon 2.5ghz which also had the same turbo-boost 4.4ghz.
In my real world use, the 28 core is much faster. Then I got another 28 core 2.5ghz 28 core Mac Pro fitted with a pair of W6800X Duos. Both of them run great, I have no need to replace them yet. For all the things Apple does badly, the 2019 Mac Pro was beautifully built and easy to work on. The CPU upgrade was so easy.
If I do sell them, whoever buys them will get absolutely perfectly looked after computers. I'm very obsessive about avoiding scratches, marks or any other blemishes on my computers. I've seen some for sale with dings, deep scratches, bent feet and I wonder what the hell the previous owner was doing - it's an expensive bit of equipment, for goodness sake take care of it.
It sounds like you take very good care of them. I would if I paid that much money because they were ridiculously expensive. Of course, in a business setting, they are bought with corporate funds and are treated just like in the other tool. Employees use them don’t necessarily like their computer or having any attachment to it. Is the equivalent of buying the janitor, a really nice broom and it gets abused.
This would be cool for hobbyists and home users. Most businesses won’t touch pirated software and unsupported hardware even if it is slightly better performing. It’s pretty cool we still have people enthusiastic enough to do things like that though.
Business always requires the most efficient solutions . And better solutions are always the enemy of good solutions . Why do you say that something is pirated when it is not true ? On this computer you can install any software that you legally bought. And the most important thing is that it works as on the original Mac .
Sorry about the confusion. I was referring to macOS when it comes to pirated software. When it comes to big companies or companies in general, they want legally licensed software. They’re not going to touch anything like that. I’m sure some small businesses out there are doing things like this, but I’m talking about businesses that have a payroll and accountants are not going to do that.
I’m no goodie two shoes because I grew up during the time of Napster. I’m not saying I downloaded pirated music because I’m not going to confess that online, but it is possible since I grew up in that timeline.
Here in the EU you can legally install macOS for yourself even on a microwave oven so the law says ) On the other hand, looking for an alternative to MacPro is not a bad thing as long as you don't pack your hardware into a Mac case with the apple logo. Hackintosh is not a regular PC and it is not a Mac. It's a combination of PC hardware and macOS which gives you a new quality. We are creating a new quality and not making copies of Macs. Those who want to have a MacPro will buy a MacPro . If you want something more you build a hackintosh .
It’s weird that the EU would allow people to ignore software licensing requirements, but that doesn’t really surprise me. I’m not against individuals doing it because it doesn’t cause harm to Apple and gets people interested in the Apple ecosystem. Even in the USA I don’t think Apple cares people do this unless they’re making a profit off of it. They probably don’t want the bad publicity like Microsoft got when they sent some guy to prison for selling Windows CDs along with recycled computers.
I would do it if I could find some interest as in why or how would I like this but I’ve never managed to figure that out. Maybe if I couldn’t afford a Mac I would make one. With the low price of the Mac mini I would have to be really hurting to not be able to come up with the money.
The biggest thing I like about a Mac isn’t there on a Hacintosh. I like my Mac because it’s fully supported by Apple so if I have any problems, I can take it into the Apple Store and they will fix it. I can’t do that with a Hacintosh. Well, I could take it in there, but they would probably laugh and tell me to go away lol.
If I want to make a computer to tinker with as a hobbyist I would load Linux on it. It’s open source and so much more customizable than macOS. I have a Linux desktop that I can spend hours messing around with and still feel a little bit lost. It’s OK though because it makes me think and figure things out which I really love.
I’m sure the Hacintosh fits into someone’s workflow, but I just can’t find a place for it in mine. Maybe that could change in the future though.
Well, that's what you don't understand about the hackintosh. If you break something in it, any PC service will fix what it is for a small amount or you will do it yourself by replacing some broken component. Silicon mac computers are basically unrepairable ie disposable.
And basically building a hackintosh today is I am going to say it “plain dumb” if rely on it. I say this as basically kicking the can down the road. Intel MacOS has a short shelf life left.
There is going to come a point where MacOS in the not too distant future where no longer supports the Intel hardware. They ditched PowerPC Macs fairly quickly 3 years after the last Intel Mac completed the transition. So with a 2023 transition to all Mx Apple Silicon then could be looking at June 2026, early 2027 if follows the 3 years.
So essentially people should have in place NOW the strategy for either going Silicon or moving off MacOS, whether it be Windows/Linux with Nvidia GPU and lower end Mac for other, ot just move off MacOS altogether.
Most Hackintosh sites acknowledge then”golden age” of hackintosh is over and basically a ticking clock till apple drops Intel support.
True, I can take it to a PC repair place but at least in the USA you don’t get the same level of service at some random PC repair shop as you do at Apple. It’s not even close. Many people that mess around at this level are doing their own technical support.
I wouldn’t say Apple Silicon computers are unrepairable, but they are less repairable than a desktop PC. The key with that is AppleCare. If it breaks, I want it fixed. If they have to replace the whole computer, then they have to replace the whole computer. That becomes Apple‘s problem, not mine.
I suspect you are right with the Apple Silicon being required for future versions of macOS. I wonder if computers with Qualcomm ARM Processors will be able to run the Apple Silicon version of macOS.
Even when they drop compatibility for Apple Silicon that doesn’t mean people will stop with the Hackintosh hobby. People will just run older versions of macOS. Even on Mac hardware you have people that are stubborn and don’t want to upgrade the OS. I’m absolutely certain you have quite a few people out there still running macOS Big Sur. I’m talking about on Apple hardware not Hacintosh computers.
I really think the majority of people running macOS on non-Apple hardware are just tinkerers and hobbyists. They’re not trying to get serious work (work they’re getting paid to do) done, but just doing something because they can do it. It’s kind of like putting a Ford 5.0 engine into a Toyota Prius. Most people with a vehicle that has a 5.0 and most Prius drivers wouldn’t do this. It’s something to do because it’s interesting. Before anyone says something I’m not comparing macOS, Apple hardware or non-Apple hardware to a Toyota Prius or Ford engine. I’m just discussing the concept of doing something that’s not normally done by most people and requires a bit of extra effort that most don’t want to deal with. That’s why it’s a hobbyist thing.
That golden age is already gone with the need to still use old GPUs from the Radeon 6000 series (or older). Hence why I wouldn’t bother with hackintosh.
If you could run W7900 Radeon Pro - that would be helpful, but we can’t. And nobody has any idea of how to “hack” support into macOS for it.
Currently it is Silicon Mac that has lost compatibility with Windows and practically with Linux )
Hackintosh continues to be fully compatible with these systems . This is the current state and it is difficult to predict what will be in some years. If you think that the last buyers of Intel Mac Pro who spent a fortune on this computer in 2023 will soon lose support is not good .
Think that for one macPro you will buy four hackintoshes with similar capabilities. And then after four or five years will you regret that you did not spend four times as much on MacPro ? And you should know that just moments after you leave the apple store your mac loses 20% of its value.
And after a year another 20% and so on. Of course, PCs also lose value over time. But in this case your loss is much smaller and you are ahead because you spent less money. And you can always then decide whether to switch to Windows or buy a new Mac.
As you can see buying a new computer is not an investment it is always a loss .That is why you buy here and now what is most profitable and not what will be in a few years.
Hackintosh continues to be fully compatible with these systems . This is the current state and it is difficult to predict what will be in some years. If you think that the last buyers of Intel Mac Pro who spent a fortune on this computer in 2023 will soon lose support is not good .
Think that for one macPro you will buy four hackintoshes with similar capabilities. And then after four or five years will you regret that you did not spend four times as much on MacPro ? And you should know that just moments after you leave the apple store your mac loses 20% of its value.
And after a year another 20% and so on. Of course, PCs also lose value over time. But in this case your loss is much smaller and you are ahead because you spent less money. And you can always then decide whether to switch to Windows or buy a new Mac.
As you can see buying a new computer is not an investment it is always a loss .That is why you buy here and now what is most profitable and not what will be in a few years.
The compatibility with windows is on Microsoft due to their contract with Qualcomm. That’s not Apple’s fault. Also Linux compatibility is on whoever makes that Linux distro. There is I know at least one that is compatible, but I haven’t tried it.
If you bought an Intel Mac in 2023 that wasn’t strictly for business as in a business right off you need counseling. At that point, the writing was on the wall for at least three years so no one should’ve been buying Intel Mac anything. Not for a personal computer. Businesses don’t care because they can buy it and just write it off.
I feel like the part I highlighted contradicts what you’re saying in the rest of it. It doesn’t matter if as soon as I walk out of the Apple Store it’s only worth $1. It’s not an investment so I don’t care what the depreciation is. My only concern is I spend X money and get X use of a product in return. If I spend $2000 for a MacBook that I enjoyed for five years then to me that was well worth it. I recently bought a car that probably depreciated $40k after I bought it. I don’t care in the least bit. I am enjoying driving that car every day. If I buy stock and it drops way down then that bothers me because I’m not getting any enjoyment from owning stock. If I buy a physical item, then I’m trading in that depreciation value for my enjoyment. Think about buying food and how much that depreciates. I don’t think anyone would buy the food after my body is done with it 😂
I kind of of what you’re saying about if you buy a non Apple brand computer it’s going to cost less so you’ll be out less money. If that product does the same thing for you and you’re happy with it then that’s the smart choice. The question is do you get the same amount of enjoyment from the Hackintosh versus the Mac? If your answer is yes, then that’s an easy decision. I don’t think my answer would be yes, because part of my enjoyment is knowing that I get support for the hardware and OS I’m using. I have an Apple Store close enough that I can go to and that might not apply to everyone. For me, I think owning the Apple brand is worth the extra cost because it provides me an extra feeling of security. It may not be worth it for everyone else though.
I don’t understand, then. Does every ARM-based chip have its own specific restrictions on what software it can even comprehend?
Holy ****, you’re still talking about that obvious hoax where Amazon did what Apple was accused of?
Business need things to work reliably and hackintosh is a pain in the balls.
Never mind the legality.
I feel much more secure having a hackintosh. The modular design of the PC simplifies everything. For example, a disk or memory failure in a mac mini - the computer goes to the service and you wait a week or more . In hackintosh the matter is trivial , you replace the disk with another one (I have several of them) or buy a ridiculously cheap memory and go on. That is , you fully control the computer and also your business . This is especially important after the warranty . It is easy to prove that the cost of repairing a Mac can be up to 10 times more than the same defect in a PC.
My level of satisfaction with using macOS is probably exactly the same as on the original Mac. In case of some problems with macOS (exactly the same as on the original mac) I use the same forums as Mac users . Contrary to appearances, these are not some separate worlds ) But I know what you are writing about because using Apple support you don't have to worry about the rest. You don't need to know what's inside because it's a only matter of service.
The idea of hackintosh was always the possibility of choice . Apple currently no longer gives you any choice ; every component must be “made by Apple” . And the lack of choice is a monopoly and all the disadvantages that come with it.
Um, it's not a hoax, Apple was convicted, appealed as high as the courts allowed, and the conviction was confirmed.
They were guilty. They lead a criminal conspiracy with publishing companies, with a full email trail in which senior executives literally said what they were doing, engaging in cartel behaviour between companies who are competitors, to conspire across an industry and set minimum retail floor prices for eBooks, which had the effect of raising prices for consumers.
It. Was. Illegal.
It. Was. A. Crime.
More like every ARM-based computer - beyond sharing the Arm64 instruction set - has different hardware and firmware that requires custom drivers, installers etc. so an operating system has to actively support that platform. All PCs started from a hardware/firmware clone of the original IBM PC and adhered to a bunch of de-facto industry standards as they evolved (including the Intel Macs - which was why BootCamp was possible). ARM systems will possibly converge eventually and ARM inc. have some standards, but Apple Silicon systems are pretty proprietary (descended from iPad/iPhone rather than PC) and different from the MS/Qualcomm “copilot+” platform.
Virtualisation apps like Parallels and UTM can emulate an ARM platform that supports Windows and/or implement simple drivers that provide an interface between Windows and the host’s MacOS drivers.
Apple isn’t blocking anyone (there’s already a native Linux distro for Apple Silicon) There’s just no native version of windows available to buy yet - and that’s not going to happen unless Microsoft choose to make it happen… MS have every reason not to do that while they are trying to establish their own Qualcomm-based platform that can be cloned by HPDelnovo (in its current form, Copilot+ PCs would struggle against Apple Silicon if the latter could run native windows). So if anybody is blocking it it is possibly Microsoft.
You’re right that the system you picked is more repairable. Apple is giving you a choice though. You don’t have to buy from Apple or even use macOS. Technically they don’t give you the choice to do what you’re doing, but they don’t care so you have that choice too. One company doesn’t have to make products for everyone. For example, if I make sports cars, you could say I’m not giving people the choice that want to drive pickup trucks. The thing is you have the choice to go out and buy a pickup truck from someone else. Apple makes products that their customers want.