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The new macbook pro: Unfixable, unhackable, untenable
- Thread starter pragmatous
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It's a good article read it.
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Missing the point ...
Thank you for the informative post. I was not aware that the Macbook Pro was unrepairable!
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Missing the point ...
Meh, it's really blown out of proportion. The majority of MacBook users will never care to upgrade it. Considering it comes with an SSD and a minimum of 8GB ram, you're already pretty much sorted. It'll take several years before 8GB ram is considered too little.
So what did you think of the article? (which is the point)
Thanks.
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Well the guy (author) makes an interesting point. Are we the consumer making a choice here by choosing this path? I've seen PC's with similar configs. Is the future of electronics a defined life span. Ie after 3 years we have to buy new instead of having the ability to fix them?
Thanks.
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Well the guy (author) makes an interesting point. Are we the consumer making a choice here by choosing this path? I've seen PC's with similar configs. Is the future of electronics a defined life span. Ie after 3 years we have to buy new instead of having the ability to fix them?
I think that just like the Author says it's a choice. I think that the vast majority of computer users do not upgrade their machines nor do they fix them themselves. A lot of them probably get a whole new computer every couple of years because the old one is slow or the hard drive fails. Apple gives those people the choice of getting a machine that's thin and light and will make them happier over that time span. Would the iPad be a better product for most people if it had a big plate on the back with a RAM slot inside?
The display and battery haven't been "user serviceable" parts on Apple laptops for a while now. The CPU, GPU, and anything else on the logic board could fail and make you replace the entire board. That's also nothing new.
About the only thing that will probably effect most users is the battery, which hasn't been 'user replaceable' since 2009. Apple charges $199 to replace the battery in the Retina Macbook Pro, which is probably a pretty good deal since they do all the work for you.
They will most likely replace the whole topcase + battery assembly. Your old one will go back to be reconditioned, the old battery recycled, and a new battery glued in, and become someone else's replacement.
The same thing happens with iPads, except they replace your whole iPad and send it back to be reconditioned.
Doesn't seem like a terribly unfriendly or wasteful process to me.
The display and battery haven't been "user serviceable" parts on Apple laptops for a while now. The CPU, GPU, and anything else on the logic board could fail and make you replace the entire board. That's also nothing new.
About the only thing that will probably effect most users is the battery, which hasn't been 'user replaceable' since 2009. Apple charges $199 to replace the battery in the Retina Macbook Pro, which is probably a pretty good deal since they do all the work for you.
They will most likely replace the whole topcase + battery assembly. Your old one will go back to be reconditioned, the old battery recycled, and a new battery glued in, and become someone else's replacement.
The same thing happens with iPads, except they replace your whole iPad and send it back to be reconditioned.
Doesn't seem like a terribly unfriendly or wasteful process to me.
I don't see why you couldn't use the Retina comfortably five years from now. Where did this three year figure come from?
Ie means "for example".
Well the argument the author is stating is that we're making a consumerist choice by buying non-upgradeable/difficult to repair devices. Consequently due to the popularity of said devices the next gen will be even more proprietary. Is this the future of electronics? Have we become complacent to this and have we accepted the idea of replacing our devices every 3 years?
What do you think of his article?
Well the argument the author is stating is that we're making a consumerist choice by buying non-upgradeable/difficult to repair devices. Consequently due to the popularity of said devices the next gen will be even more proprietary. Is this the future of electronics? Have we become complacent to this and have we accepted the idea of replacing our devices every 3 years?
What do you think of his article?
Well the author is implying that it is choice now and depending on what consumers choose that will be the future of electronics. Meaning the choice is now made and that is what you get.
I understand that people don't upgrade or service their equipment themselves. They can take it some where to get it serviced though and that's the point. The argument that's being made is do we want serviceable/upgradeable devices but it's an extra quarter of an inch thicker or do we want to sacrifice function over form? Do we want thinness over the ability to service/upgrade the device?
I think options are good. I hope the industry decides to keep options and not make a choice of one side to the other. Some people don't mind some bulky while others want thin and don't care about wanting to upgrade it.
It's a fascinating article. What's going on is important to everyone that cares about their electronics and how they use it in their daily lives.
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It's not about it being "new" information. It's about what is being discussed in the article. If you had half a brain you would comprehend that.
I thought Mac users were intellectual but judging by the negativity in this forum I was dead wrong.
I understand that people don't upgrade or service their equipment themselves. They can take it some where to get it serviced though and that's the point. The argument that's being made is do we want serviceable/upgradeable devices but it's an extra quarter of an inch thicker or do we want to sacrifice function over form? Do we want thinness over the ability to service/upgrade the device?
I think options are good. I hope the industry decides to keep options and not make a choice of one side to the other. Some people don't mind some bulky while others want thin and don't care about wanting to upgrade it.
It's a fascinating article. What's going on is important to everyone that cares about their electronics and how they use it in their daily lives.
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It's not about it being "new" information. It's about what is being discussed in the article. If you had half a brain you would comprehend that.
I thought Mac users were intellectual but judging by the negativity in this forum I was dead wrong.
Maybe if you had half a brain, you'd quote information from the article that isn't the same stuff that has been regurgitated this entire week. I don't see why yet another thread is required on the same subject.
P.S. In the other threads on the same exact subject, I've said the same thing that the author is saying. Basically, Apple is creating what people are buying and willing to buy. The minority that whines, complains, etc will either have to eventually follow or go another path.
Exactly negativity ... that's what you understand. You can't comprehend the pragmatic approach to discourse.
"unfixable, unhackable, untenable"
not exactly pragmatic discourse.
while the retina mbp may not suit your needs, it suits mine very well.
not exactly pragmatic discourse.
while the retina mbp may not suit your needs, it suits mine very well.
Umm ok, sure.
Maybe you need a tutorial on how to link to an article properly.
The MR article linking to the iFixit info is a great example:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1385858/
First you pick out a few specific quotes that are relevant and add something new to the discussion. Then you write your own thoughts. Then you link to the article.
Hope that helps.
Maybe you need a tutorial on how to link to an article properly.
The MR article linking to the iFixit info is a great example:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1385858/
First you pick out a few specific quotes that are relevant and add something new to the discussion. Then you write your own thoughts. Then you link to the article.
Hope that helps.
The biggest problem is what state the battery is in 3 years. This can be replaced by Apple for $200. The next biggest issue is the HD, this will (probably) eventually be user replaceable by a 3rd party vendor. Any other issue is a matter of how the user utilizes his/her computer. If they need the power, they would have upgraded the computer regardless of how it was designed in a few years anyway. If they plan on using it for more than 3 years, there is nothing stopping them from doing so outside of problems that could affect any kind of laptop (motherboard failures).
All Apple is doing now is forcing you to make that choice over commitment now rather than later. If you want to try to ride this out for 3+ years, it's probably in your best interests to max out the ram (unless you're a really casual user, in which case, I'm not sure what you're doing buying this computer...). If not, it would have made little difference how the computer was built because you would have replaced the machine within 3 years anyway.
As long as Apple allows the HD to be user replaceable, and replaces batteries, I don't have a personal issue with this. There are other problems that are more important that need to be addressed in my view.
I did that on purpose to kind of simulate a block quote. I thought it was a cool innovative idea!
My approach was "here's a fascinating article tell me what you think of it". You tell me what you think and then I tell you what I think.
It's basic communication.
My approach was "here's a fascinating article tell me what you think of it". You tell me what you think and then I tell you what I think.
It's basic communication.
Umm ok, sure.
Maybe you need a tutorial on how to link to an article properly.
The MR article linking to the iFixit info is a great example:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1385858/
First you pick out a few specific quotes that are relevant and add something new to the discussion. Then you write your own thoughts. Then you link to the article.
Hope that helps.
No it does not. i.e. is id est, latin for "that is", "which means", "in other words"...
e.g. is exempli gratia "for example".
If you are going to use latin abbreviations, at least know what they mean.
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i.e means Id est and not "for example". e.g means example given and might be what you are looking for.
If all else fails The oatmeal is a great reference
Also, I agree that this has been blown out of proportions. I love to tinker with my laptops, and hate that it is constantly being made harder for people to have fun with their own hardware. But thats completely different from whether I will be able to use and make money with my soon to be bought RMBP.
On other forums I frequent, it is considered bad form (both the creating new thread on same topic and creating a thread with just a link). Maybe it is normal practice here.
the problem with the service idea is that its misleading.
there are only 2 parts in the macbooks that you can upgrade and service, RAM and the HDD.
The ODD can be swapped out, true. I rarely see people that do it in a enterprise class machine with bay adapters ready at the gate, I cant even imagine how high the adoption rate for this ''feature'' would be in such a consumer class laptop.
Yes apple laptops are all consumer class equipment. They aint professional for a quite while. That doesnt mean that you cant use professionally. Yes we can! I do it.
The paramount idea of a professional pc is that its serviceable by your IT dept or yourself, neither you can really do with apple. They dont ship you the parts, try to order a mobo. They have to be not only serviceable, but easily done.
I can and will say that the back cover is easy enough for you to reach the parts that you can upgrade, I did swap the RAM and the HDD. However when you get to a real pro pc, like the elitebook 8560w, there is a whole different picture.
You can upgrade your gpu, cpu, ram, hdd, swap the ODD for a HDD (earlier you could change it for another battery, in the thinkpads you can still do it), service the LCD panel, change the chassis, change the mobo by actually ordering one and swapping yourself.
and have you tried to dismantle completely a macbook? its not for the faint of heart with so many flimsy cables.
Not to mention that they also come with better gpus, the mbp 17 can be considered a more pro model, with a richer display, the 8760w has a better display, and a much more powerful gpu, that can be upgraded to another much more powerful gpu.
There are other benefits like a tech that will go to your place armed with tools and spare parts and fix the laptop for you.
I clearly understand the outrage of the MBA and the RMBP, however I dont see many people that service a 3+ year old laptop, they buy a new one. It stop making monetary sense after awhile to pay for the repairs, and the subsquent longer downtime since hunting for the parts is also troublesome.
there are only 2 parts in the macbooks that you can upgrade and service, RAM and the HDD.
The ODD can be swapped out, true. I rarely see people that do it in a enterprise class machine with bay adapters ready at the gate, I cant even imagine how high the adoption rate for this ''feature'' would be in such a consumer class laptop.
Yes apple laptops are all consumer class equipment. They aint professional for a quite while. That doesnt mean that you cant use professionally. Yes we can! I do it.
The paramount idea of a professional pc is that its serviceable by your IT dept or yourself, neither you can really do with apple. They dont ship you the parts, try to order a mobo. They have to be not only serviceable, but easily done.
I can and will say that the back cover is easy enough for you to reach the parts that you can upgrade, I did swap the RAM and the HDD. However when you get to a real pro pc, like the elitebook 8560w, there is a whole different picture.
You can upgrade your gpu, cpu, ram, hdd, swap the ODD for a HDD (earlier you could change it for another battery, in the thinkpads you can still do it), service the LCD panel, change the chassis, change the mobo by actually ordering one and swapping yourself.
and have you tried to dismantle completely a macbook? its not for the faint of heart with so many flimsy cables.
Not to mention that they also come with better gpus, the mbp 17 can be considered a more pro model, with a richer display, the 8760w has a better display, and a much more powerful gpu, that can be upgraded to another much more powerful gpu.
There are other benefits like a tech that will go to your place armed with tools and spare parts and fix the laptop for you.
I clearly understand the outrage of the MBA and the RMBP, however I dont see many people that service a 3+ year old laptop, they buy a new one. It stop making monetary sense after awhile to pay for the repairs, and the subsquent longer downtime since hunting for the parts is also troublesome.
The guy writing the article? Care to elaborate that? What are your thoughts?
I think there's a valid point but at the same time I think the industry will stick with options; However, it may be viewed as more profitable to choose a side than to have options.
So here the author refers to the choice of "short-lived laptop" vs "robust thicker model" as values.
Like I viewed about 15 different windows PC brands before I bought my mac. A good lump of the brands I looked at were going towards integration, thinness, and unserviceable. Some brands the RAM was integrated but they also provided a RAM slot for example. Some brands the SSDs weren't removable. Believe it or not that Macbook pro (non-retina) was the only thin powerful laptop that did not have integrated parts.
The industry doesn't know how to make thinness in their devices without integration. With the popularity in light & thin you're going to see more of this. Especially as the tech industry sees the popularity in the macbook pro retina.
The author is saying you're looking at the death of freedom. The freedom to upgrade your computer and hack it as you see fit.
So it matters a lot because what you buy now determines the products you use 3 years from now. We're at that cross road of what technology will look like in the future.
I think there's a valid point but at the same time I think the industry will stick with options; However, it may be viewed as more profitable to choose a side than to have options.
So here the author refers to the choice of "short-lived laptop" vs "robust thicker model" as values.
Like I viewed about 15 different windows PC brands before I bought my mac. A good lump of the brands I looked at were going towards integration, thinness, and unserviceable. Some brands the RAM was integrated but they also provided a RAM slot for example. Some brands the SSDs weren't removable. Believe it or not that Macbook pro (non-retina) was the only thin powerful laptop that did not have integrated parts.
The industry doesn't know how to make thinness in their devices without integration. With the popularity in light & thin you're going to see more of this. Especially as the tech industry sees the popularity in the macbook pro retina.
The author is saying you're looking at the death of freedom. The freedom to upgrade your computer and hack it as you see fit.
So it matters a lot because what you buy now determines the products you use 3 years from now. We're at that cross road of what technology will look like in the future.