3-4 hours. I got about 2 1/2 on an HD movie. It's not awful, but it's always on my mind...
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The "New" MBP 13" vs. MBA Thread
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3-4 hours. I got about 2 1/2 on an HD movie. It's not awful, but it's always on my mind...
roxygal9
macrumors regular
No it isnt and I dont think it is whats so ever. I was talking in relative terms that were being used.
I am opting for the 13 MBP with 256 SSD. I dont think the new MBA will have a 10 hr battery life, and though it is lighter and quite powerful, it is hard to justify it economically. THough I like the thinness/lightweight the battery life and less memory (2gb) is deal breaker.
Perhaps Apple is trying to get consumers to ditch air, and get maybe 13 mbp with ipad?
I am waiting on some benchmarks that compare it to the old 13 and 15 in mbp, and then will pull trigger.
As an owner of a dell XPS, the sleek design of the mbp and the beautiful display/glass trackpad is awesome! Perhaps next go around i can get the revised mba (if its refreshed). Bummer, but again they really gotta look at drpooing the price a little.
Scottsdale
Suspended
I agree... the new MBA will have a slightly better battery, and it might even get marketed to 7 hours. I suspect Apple will use the new battery tech that gives it 1000 cycles, and the slightly denser. However, they cannot do what they did with the MBPs/MBs, because it started in the MBA. Apple already saved space by not using removable batteries. It cannot go too dense or add any weight at all. The whole purpose of the MBA is to keep it at 3 lb.
I would be disgusted to keep the same shape/case of the MBA but add even a 1/2 lb to gain double the battery life. We all have to realize that the weight demands determines we are stuck with four to five hours... or at least we all SHOULD realize that the weight we want AND THE POWER AND PERFORMANCE LIMITATIONS OF THAT WEIGHT, is right at the limit of 3 lb. To go lightweight we have to give some power and performance and some battery too.
I will prefer keeping low voltage CPUs and Nvidia GPUs over ultra low voltage Core i7 and sole use of Intel's GMA IGP. We all have to think about what Apple wants to offer us. I hope we can get an extra hour by using a slightly larger battery or better battery tech without adding weight or mass at all.
blesscheese
macrumors 6502a
MBA vs. 13 inch MBP
I was comparing the MBA vs. the 13 inch MBP, and chose the MBA. I had wanted to upgrade over a year ago, but did not like the current models then. I then used a "hackintosh" for over a year (an MSI Wind), and found out (again) how enjoyable having the lightest computer was, compared to lugging around huge, heavy (6 pounds or greater) machines.
Using the netbook also convinced me that optical drives are basically irrelevant.
In any event, for my purposes, the MBA was the clear winner. I have a home desktop, and my business requires me to travel, and provides me with a (blech) Lenovo T61. For me, I just wanted to thinnest and lightest laptop, because I have to lug around 2.
My MBA does everything I need, even with a "paltry" 2GB of RAM and a 128SSD. (My hackintosh did 90% of what I needed to do, with only an Atom processor!) At the expense of being long winded, I can't wait for Apple to ditch the optical drives from the laptops! What a waste of space and weight. When Steve Jobs ditched the floppy, I was there like, OMG how could he? Now, I want to push him to get rid of the optical drive...pretty soon I'll be replacing my desktop with a Mac Mini that will be hooked up to the TV to stream hulu and Netflix & iTunes. That can me my server. In this scenario, a lot more people would find a MBA could fit their needs, and it really would not be such a niche product.
To end this, if there was no MBA, I would probably do what the others on this thread are talking about: go with a 13 inch MBP and put an SSD in it. But if there is a choice, I would always go with the MBA. Since most people with home theater setups will have a desktop server of some sort, I really can see (and hope) that the MBA form factor will live on.
I was comparing the MBA vs. the 13 inch MBP, and chose the MBA. I had wanted to upgrade over a year ago, but did not like the current models then. I then used a "hackintosh" for over a year (an MSI Wind), and found out (again) how enjoyable having the lightest computer was, compared to lugging around huge, heavy (6 pounds or greater) machines.
Using the netbook also convinced me that optical drives are basically irrelevant.
In any event, for my purposes, the MBA was the clear winner. I have a home desktop, and my business requires me to travel, and provides me with a (blech) Lenovo T61. For me, I just wanted to thinnest and lightest laptop, because I have to lug around 2.
My MBA does everything I need, even with a "paltry" 2GB of RAM and a 128SSD. (My hackintosh did 90% of what I needed to do, with only an Atom processor!) At the expense of being long winded, I can't wait for Apple to ditch the optical drives from the laptops! What a waste of space and weight. When Steve Jobs ditched the floppy, I was there like, OMG how could he? Now, I want to push him to get rid of the optical drive...pretty soon I'll be replacing my desktop with a Mac Mini that will be hooked up to the TV to stream hulu and Netflix & iTunes. That can me my server. In this scenario, a lot more people would find a MBA could fit their needs, and it really would not be such a niche product.
To end this, if there was no MBA, I would probably do what the others on this thread are talking about: go with a 13 inch MBP and put an SSD in it. But if there is a choice, I would always go with the MBA. Since most people with home theater setups will have a desktop server of some sort, I really can see (and hope) that the MBA form factor will live on.
Sounds pretty similar to my situation. My work PC (Dell E6400) is locked down and I can't do much on there I want to, so the size of the MBA is a serious plus for me. Then I keep thinking an extra 1 1/2 lbs. isn't that much, especially considering my bag is already about 20 lbs.
I've similar situation too, thinking to go for the MBP or wait. I've tried comparing both in the store. While holding them on each of my hands, I can tell 1.5 lbs could be significant!
I do not agree with this statement in any way. The MBA is not at all like a netbook. Other than weight... they are not remotely comparable.
A net book has a cramped keyboard, and a tiny, low resolution screen. By contrast... the MBA is light and agile laptop that is a joy to use.
/Jim
As I still own a Rev A HDD MBA I have gone to the Apple store many times to make that comparison as I have considered giving up my wait and switching over to the 13" MBP.
The heft test sends me back to my pokey MBA every time.
But my patience is wearing thin for an MBA upgrade.
The 13" MBP is too heavy to be a constant companion, and the MBA makes some odd compromises to achieve its featherweight. I think the ideal portable would be a 12" MBP with the specs of the 13" MBP, minus the optical drive. Keep the MBP ports. (SD reader and FW800 are nice to have!) and at least 6 hr battery life. I would guess that would end up about 1/2lb more than the MBA.
gwsat
macrumors 68000
I agree that the MBA is certainly not a netbook. When Apple failed to refresh the MBA this week, I immediately bought a 16Gb iPad. Despite its impressive display and the best virtual keyboard I have seen yet, the iPad is not an MBA, either. The MBA is a real computer. Thus, if and when Apple introduces a model of the MBA that would allow me to put 6 or 8Gb or RAM in it, I'll be first in line to buy one. Because of its high price, I would expect an MBA to serve as my every day machine. Unfortunately, though, the current MBA won't do that. In order to be an every day machine, I need one that will run Fusion and Windows 7 in Unity mode, which no Mac with only 2Gb of RAM can do adequately.
Scottsdale
Suspended
Agreed. The problem is Apple could have given us 4 GB of RAM and an Nvidia 320m several months ago... so an update by WWDC seems obvious now given Apple's past strategy. However, Apple doesn't do the obvious thing and often disappoints. Why so long? Why not at least give us a 4 GB RAM feature and option to go bigger for the SSD? Apple could even charge more via BTO options and make ridiculous margins on these systems. I don't care if I have to pay for every extra feature, I just want the options to get the MBA I truly want.
This is all I would want -- 4GB of RAM and a good sized SSD would be enough to get me to break out my wallet. It *really* shouldn't be too much to ask for.
blairh
macrumors 604
Seeing that the MBA is an ultra-portable, I'd be using mine a lot of course away from home. Often times when I don't have access to a power outlet. So with that in mind I hope Apple really improves the battery life. Also, please don't touch the screen of the MBA! I love my MBP, but the glass panel from edge to edge is less than wonderful when sunlight comes into the mix in any way.
Are we seriously comparing a 10 Hour Macbook Pro and a 3 Hour MBA? 🙁
After having owned several Rev A and Rev B MBAs, aside from heat, which I got software to control, and lower processing power, which I worked around, the BIG deal breaker was poor battery.
Last years refresh lineup of alu models included the MBA. Hence, it's been left behind this year (what you're still expecting a lonesome MBA only "quite" refresh later this year??) . 🙄
And the MBA will further be left behind once we start seeing iPad cases with integrated hard keyboards. (I know not a "real" computer, but an entry level plastic macbook PLUS an iPad is cheaper than a SINGLE comparable CPU powered MBA.)
The public has now been introduced to that iPad a device that realistically runs 12+ hours, and coming back to a 3+ hour device will be unacceptable for the keepin' it real light crowd.
Apple now doesn't care for one ultra thin and light, it wants you to think of a thin/light iPad added to whatever laptop you choose.
MBA is soon to be EOL, so get your collectors edition now while they last. 😀
gwsat
macrumors 68000
I think that the decision of which ultra lightweight device to chose is more complicated that battery life alone. I have been using an iPad for the past week and have been delighted with its great display, small size, light weight, and impressive battery life. Nevertheless, it has an inadequate browser (no Flash support), limited data storage (64Bb max), and limited application software (you get what Apple deigns to give you through the iPad App Store). In stark contrast, the MBA weighs only three pounds and will run all software apps, even Windows apps, but it has very limited battery life and only 2Gb of RAM. The refreshed 13 inch MBP, as you noted, will do even more that the MBA because it can accommodate 8Gb of RAM and has a 10 hour battery. Unfortunately, though, it weighs 4.5 pounds and so does not qualify as an ultra lightweight, at least not by my definition.
My conclusion from all of the above is that every ultra lightweight device is made up of a series of compromises. Thus, all of them have weaknesses in one place or another. Before buying any them we have to decide which strengths are important enough for us to accept the accompanying weaknesses because there is no free lunch.
Agreed, but it's not up to us to define what or even if an ultra-lightweight stand-alone is needed. I stated it was Apple that seems to no longer care for this category especially since the iPad.
No one is claiming the iPad replaces an MBA. But they're trying real hard at disrupting our buying habits: Buy an iPad PLUS another laptop as the norm. And if that's the case, there is no room left for the MBA.
Scottsdale
Suspended
I don't think the MBA will be EOL because the iPad is here. In fact, I believe Apple can sell more MBAs than it ever has just by upgrading the RAM and drive space options. The market buyer for the MBA just cannot run their necessary apps nor create properly and efficiently on an iPad.
What I do agree with and is a nice strategy is buying a white MacBook and an iPad for a lower price than the MBA. That is a great idea for CONSUMERS. I don't believe the average MBA user, who was the intended market buyer for the MBA, will select an iPad and MB or even just an iPad over the MBA. The person that bought the MBA as a cheap secondary computer for $999 when Apple dumped them, will move to an iPad next because that's all they ever intended to use it for (observation and entertainment viewing).
The MBA target buyer is a business type user. Someone that travels and doesn't need raw power. They do need TRUE computing capabilities and mostly need to type or run applications that need OS X and a capable CPU for. The MBA can replace the capabilities of the iPad. The iPad can replace a couple of the capabilities of the MBA. For the consumer that wants to surf the web, watch a movie (and wants to pay for it via iTunes), or check their email while traveling, the iPad is grand. For someone that is working away from the office, the MBA is the perfect tool.
I don't see the MBA's purpose as going away anytime soon. When the MB/MBP get the MBA case or form factor, the MBA will just become more portable, thinner, and more perfect for the business user on the go. The idea of the MBA is more portability yet same performance as I would NEED from an MB or MBP. There will always be tech getting smaller and smaller.
They've never moved off the shelf as fast as the other units. Of all the notebooks, the MBA models have always stocked the refurb store. Indicating high returns (like my 3) and overstock.
Agreed, but they are far and few between. Why would a $billion company, commited to reducing model numbers, keep such a device. It was introduced for it's "cool factor" status symbol for discrete buyers and that's been replaced now with iPad.
A few months back I was at a trade show, went to a booth that had cutting edge software. Sales team/presentation was slick. When questions were asked, with one hand they pulled out the MBA to demo their product. You can now do that with an iPad.
Another time I was listening to a CEO give a presentation. It went long and had to stop to find the power outlet. You can now do that with an iPad.
For many high level execs, the MBA was their first intro to Mac. They're all closet Dell 10 lb. laptop users. They travel with both units, keep the Dell in the hotel room and using the MBA on the show floor. You can now do that with an iPad.
These are just some of the real world use cases for the "business type user" you mention.
Do I miss my MBA? Ofcourse. The best ultraportable I ever owned (when it was hooked to a power supply) 😀
That's wishful thinking on the part of mostly _existing_ users. Would it become a better machine? Ofcourse. But Apple is trying to train the market that up-specking is irrelevant. That the use case for machines are far more important (ie. Steve Jobs: 13" MBP 10 Hour battery life more important than faster i3/i5 processor) The iPad will sell _more_ b/c it doesn't have a USB, hard drive space, and RAM. And so far the public and professionals are listening/buying.
gwsat
macrumors 68000
You may very well be right that, in a sort of roundabout way, the iPad could pressage the end of the MBA. As indicated in an earlier post, my iPad has proved to be capable and useful, despite it's limitations. It is a lot more than a giant iPhone but a lot less than an MBA or any other full fledged computer. Thus, I could end up living with the iPad and my still perfectly serviceable MBP for awhile longer and then buying an updated MBP next year. All of that said, my bet is that Apple will refresh the MBA sometime during the next few months, probably before the end of the year.
Well, I ended up switching for a 2.4 base MBP. While I absolutely loved the MBA, I just had too many concerns (primarily battery life and the RAM). Seems the MBA would serve my needs for the next year or two, but not much beyond that (especially if I upgrade my camera and end up with 15 MB RAW files). I suspect I may end up with another if/when there is a revision, but I think the MBP is just a better value at this time.
Thanks for all your comments and advice. Apple was very accommodating. I was in Saturday (day 29) and the employee told me he would be in on Monday (day 31) if I still wanted to exchange it. I went in last night and it was quick and seamless. No restocking fee. At the same time, I purchased a second MBP for my wife.
gwsat
macrumors 68000
As long as the 4.5 pound weight of the MBP won't cause too much inconvenience for you, I think going with it instead of the MBA was clearly your best choice. As I have studied the matter, I have concluded that every ultra lightweight, the MBA included, is a series of compromises. In order to achieve its sleek form factor and ultra light weight Apple had to compromise in ways that meant the MBA lacked the battery life, RAM capability, graphics, and sheer horsepower the 13 inch MBP. That just goes to show how much more laptop designers can do when they have 4.5 pounds to work with instead of just 3.
Scottsdale
Suspended
Absolutely. If someone is just as happy with 4.5 lb. as 3 lb., buying an MBA would be stupid. The 13" MBP is so incredibly superior in so many ways right now. The CPU is running full out without throttling at a higher clock speed. The GPU is 80% improvement over the former 13" MBP so probably 100% improvement over the MBA. The RAM capability has a 400% improvement capability. The display is higher quality with better color gamut. The battery easily lasts an extra two hours (although most say nowhere near ten hours). The port selection is better on the 13" MBP with FireWire and two USB ports. It also has a kensington lock slot. In addition, the 13" MBP has the highly useless optical drive that has been outdated for at least three years, but it's there none the less wasting space that could be used for a dedicated graphics chip or even an extra SSD or BluRay. The drive options are so superior on the 13" MBP allowing a full 2.5" drive for incredible options and 4X the SSD drive space option. All around, the 13" MBP is an incredible Mac. At $1199, I would buy the low end model, then upgrade the drive to an Intel 160 GB SSD, and then upgrade the RAM to 8 GB. Then I would be completely happy for a month until the MBA is updated... then I would go right back to the MBA... but for the person happy to carry around 4.5 lb. the MBP is sure joy and incredible value vs. the MBA.
In all honesty, right now people would be crazy to buy an MBA unless they really need ultra-portability, thin, and super lightweight and they couldn't wait for WWDC. I wouldn't buy an MBA right now at all. It is 18 months old. It has been the same price as it was for the same technology 11 months ago.
If I had to buy a notebook right now, I would buy a 13" MBP for $1199 or a 17" MBP for $2299 or a Sony Vaio Z for around $3k for a dream system - depending on my needs. If I had to buy a desktop, I would absolutely be happy yo buy a 27" iMac with C2D refurbished for $1449. If I had to buy a server, I would definitely buy a Mac mini Server for $849 refurbished. If I had to buy a display, I would buy a 24" LED backlit ACD. If I had to buy a router I would buy an AEBS. If I also needed a backup system, I would buy a Time Capsule. If I had to buy an ultraportable device for entertainment or observation, I would buy an iPad. If I had to buy a smartphone, I would buy an HTC Droid Incredible. If I could wait until June for a new smartphone, I would buy an iPhone HD. If I had to buy an MP3 player and wanted to play games too, I would buy an iPod Touch. If I just needed a simple MP3 player, I would buy an iPod Shuffle. If I wanted to buy an entertainment/movie playing system, I would buy an AppleTV or Mac mini.
The point here is there are many Apple products worth buying. Apple is doing a lot of things really right. However, the MBA is the worst value it has been in eleven months. It needs an update so badly, that I wouldn't blame anyone for buying ANY other Apple product rather than the MBA. Even the Mac Pro is older than the MBA, but it's still 100% capable of professional grade computing. The MBA has lost its status as the premier ultraportable that dominated every category/component in the ultraportable market. In addition, the MBA is incapable of doing what the average dual OS user wants to do with it... run Windows 7 in a virtual machine which really needs at least 4 GB of RAM.
If you have to buy right now, DON'T BUY AN MBA! If you get one from work, or get one as a gift, or find one in a local bar with an iPhone 3G cover on it, go ahead and be happy with it. If you have to pay real money for it, the MBA the worst value possible in the last eleven months. Even with a few small updates it would be a good value, but for a Mac that will not be relevant in 12 months let alone three years, there is no reason to pay $1799 plus tax for an MBA. If you can get one for $1349 via the refurbished store it's different if you're happy losing a little bit to upgrade and dump the old one when the new one is released. If you can wait, you will be greatly rewarded or greatly disappointed if the MBA gets EOL'd. Either way, there is no way anyone should spend $1799 plus tax for a current MBA.
gwsat
macrumors 68000
Scottsdale -- I agree with everything you have said. I have became more sanguine about the weaknesses of ultra portable devices than I once was. I finally understand what I have come to call the Dirty Little Secret that all super lightweight computing devices have to have weaknesses or they wouldn't be as small and light as they are. Thus, I bought an iPad for quick, dirty, and highly mobile tasks, understanding that I would still have to use a real computer for serious data input, multitasking, and other such stuff. The iPad has worked out well so far, primarily because I understood going in that there were things it simply couldn't do. Fortunately, my current MBA suits my needs perfectly and is likely to continue to do so until my AppleCare coverage on it ends in not quite a year. Then, but only then, will I buy a new every day laptop. The only thing that might make me buy earlier would be the unlikely possibility that Apple will put two RAM slots in a refreshed MBA.
The iPad really impressed me yesterday. I ran out of reading material and went to a nearby branch of my public library, where I am a frequent patron. They have wi-fi there, so I took the iPad. As I was browsing the stacks for books to checkout, I saw what Amazon's book critics and buyers had to say about each book that I thought might interest me. I was delighted with how well the exercise worked.
The iPad really impressed me yesterday. I ran out of reading material and went to a nearby branch of my public library, where I am a frequent patron. They have wi-fi there, so I took the iPad. As I was browsing the stacks for books to checkout, I saw what Amazon's book critics and buyers had to say about each book that I thought might interest me. I was delighted with how well the exercise worked.
+++ for both Scottsdale and gwsat
Couldn't agree more. And my iPad 3G arrives 4/30 .
All I can say is that after making a machine that has turned out to be exactly what I needed-- actually a revelation given all of the traveling I do, if Apple EOLs the MBA I will be seriously ticked off. Talk about having to go cold turkey from a "gateway drug".
JT
Couldn't agree more. And my iPad 3G arrives 4/30 .
All I can say is that after making a machine that has turned out to be exactly what I needed-- actually a revelation given all of the traveling I do, if Apple EOLs the MBA I will be seriously ticked off. Talk about having to go cold turkey from a "gateway drug".
JT
gwsat
macrumors 68000
JCT -- I think that you will enjoy your iPad. The problem I have with many of the posts concerning the iPad here is that some claim that it is nothing but a crippled dog, while others take the position that it is a viable replacement for a laptop. Both are wrong in my view. The iPad does a wonderful job of providing a large easily readable display, a decent Web browsing experience, and a virtual keyboard that is spectacular by smartphone standards. Its 10 hour battery life is also outstanding. Nevertheless, the browser lacks Flash, so you can't watch Hulu or videos from other sites as well. The email app is clumsy and the virtual keyboard, while impressive in some ways, is inferior to a laptop's conventional keyboard.
Despite its weakness, I have loved the iPad because it is the first ultra portable computing device I have seen that will let you get information from the Web quickly and pleasantly while you are walking around.