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The New MBPs explained

chrmjenkins said:
Please see smiddlehurst's post.

Additionally, highlighted are the chips being used in the 15 and 17 inch MBPs.

arrn.png




I'm not defending Apple. I'm explaining there choices. If I owned my own laptop ( I don't), it wouldn't be an apple.
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Interesting post although as I'm sure you know TDP is a very inaccurate measure of power consumption. i5's are quoted as 35w as opposed to 25w for C2D. However many tests have clearly shown that the i3/i5 manage their power consumption far better than CD2's. If they can fit a 2.53ghz CD2 inside the 13" then I doubt an i5-540 would be a problem let alone an i3.
A P8700 consumes 31.7W's at peak in reality whilst an i5-540 hits around 32.5W. There's very little in this. The i5-540 is the model replacement effectively for the C2D 2.53ghz. It also boosts CPU performance by 11-40%.

I'm pretty sure the issue is one purely to do with the limitations placed by the enclosure design with regard to a dedicated GPU. Arrandale forces a more limited integrated graphics solution and given the limited space and increase in thermal footprint clearly a second dedicated GPU requires a considerable redesign. I have a bit of sympathy for Apple, strictly Intel playing hard ball with nVidia is the real cause.

It's a real shame and as much as we want to put a brave face on it, Apple today are selling a 'new' 13" MBP with an increased price (at least in the UK, £999 up from £849 a couple of months ago) with 4+ year old CPU design. Not great for a Pro machine however much we want to hype up the new graphics solution.

It's also the reason why the battery life and graphics are being highlighted although an i3/i5 with Intel HD/nVidia 330 dedicated sacrifices very little in battery life or thermal envelope and is a far superiour configuration particularly with Optimus.

It will be interesting to see where Apple go from here, luckily for them the MBP is a lovely design object as well as a great laptop and most consumers couldn't care less. CD2???? i5??? What are they again?

Sandybridge does seem an awfully long way away though, Jan 2011 at the moment so realistic supply and integration we could be looking at a 12 month wait?
 
alphaod said:
Because the 25W i7 processor runs at a base of 1.067GHz to 1.2GHz; then it's would be horrifying, not only on paper, but in usage.
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I think those are 18W ULVs, LV versions run at 2.0Ghz and 2.13Ghz

BTW Arrandales have an integrated graphic chip with a 10W TDP, so CPUs are only 25W

wrightc23 said:
I'm pretty sure the issue is one purely to do with the limitations placed by the enclosure design with regard to a dedicated GPU. Arrandale forces a more limited integrated graphics solution and given the limited space and increase in thermal footprint clearly a second dedicated GPU requires a considerable redesign. I have a bit of sympathy for Apple, strictly Intel playing hard ball with nVidia is the real cause.
Click to expand...
I agree.
Anyone knows when Intel will stop production of the Core2Duo line?
 
wrightc23 said:
Interesting post although as I'm sure you know TDP is a very inaccurate measure of power consumption. i5's are quoted as 35w as opposed to 25w for C2D. However many tests have clearly shown that the i3/i5 manage their power consumption far better than CD2's. If they can fit a 2.53ghz CD2 inside the 13" then I doubt an i5-540 would be a problem let alone an i3.
A P8700 consumes 31.7W's at peak in reality whilst an i5-540 hits around 32.5W. There's very little in this. The i5-540 is the model replacement effectively for the C2D 2.53ghz. It also boosts CPU performance by 11-40%.

I'm pretty sure the issue is one purely to do with the limitations placed by the enclosure design with regard to a dedicated GPU. Arrandale forces a more limited integrated graphics solution and given the limited space and increase in thermal footprint clearly a second dedicated GPU requires a considerable redesign. I have a bit of sympathy for Apple, strictly Intel playing hard ball with nVidia is the real cause.

It's a real shame and as much as we want to put a brave face on it, Apple today are selling a 'new' 13" MBP with an increased price (at least in the UK, £999 up from £849 a couple of months ago) with 4+ year old CPU design. Not great for a Pro machine however much we want to hype up the new graphics solution.

It's also the reason why the battery life and graphics are being highlighted although an i3/i5 with Intel HD/nVidia 330 dedicated sacrifices very little in battery life or thermal envelope and is a far superiour configuration particularly with Optimus.

It will be interesting to see where Apple go from here, luckily for them the MBP is a lovely design object as well as a great laptop and most consumers couldn't care less. CD2???? i5??? What are they again?

Sandybridge does seem an awfully long way away though, Jan 2011 at the moment so realistic supply and integration we could be looking at a 12 month wait?
Click to expand...

Very true, but AFAIK, TDPs are still the driver in cooling solution designs.
 
I'm thinking of getting a new 15" MBP, for just photo editing, will the i5 vs i7 really make a difference? I'm thinking of getting the slower processor but the higher res screen.
 
I'm alright with the 13" not having an iX CPU. I know some can argue that this update is due to the lack of iX's Apple was able to get, but I really think it's because of the battery life IMO. Selling a 13" with a bit of punch and a 10 hr approximate battery life is pretty damn good considering other UL notebooks and netbooks on the market. As a portable device with some performance no matter how old the CPU may seem to others (must have came from the Alu.MB), it's still pretty good.

It's nice to see a thread like this after seeing all of the flames against the 13" recently.
 
m.level said:
I think those are 18W ULVs, LV versions run at 2.0Ghz and 2.13Ghz

BTW Arrandales have an integrated graphic chip with a 10W TDP, so CPUs are only 25W


I agree.
Anyone knows when Intel will stop production of the Core2Duo line?
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Never. Apple asked Intel to keep producing them for 10 more years. :D
 
Ok so, according to the OP Apple didn't go with a 5830 because it was a few measly watts too hot and Apple can't design a notebook that won't melt with one inside, so why not a 57XX card? There are 5XXX series cards that are faster than the 330M and cooler than it too.

Any idea??
 
Yixian said:
Ok so, according to the OP Apple didn't go with a 5830 because it was a few measly watts too hot and Apple can't design a notebook that won't melt with one inside, so why not a 57XX card? There are 5XXX series cards that are faster than the 330M and cooler than it too.

Any idea??
Click to expand...

No, that's the least of the reasons. Staying with Nvidia is more about keeping a supplier relationship as well as the seamless GPU switching that they've developed with Nvidia. On top of that, they got Nvidia to produce a custom card just for the 13" Source.
 
Best thread ever.
But there will be always people whining and complaining when you speak about Apple ;)
 
LucidPsychosis said:
Care to explain the lack of 7200 RPM HDDs in the 13"? If that sounded overly venomous, I'm sorry. I'm honestly curious why this isn't an option.

EDIT: Also, if I remember correctly, didn't Jobs say that this year would revolutionize the MBPs or something? How exactly did they accomplish that?
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You can do by yourself, but do you think you are going to see a noticeable difference going from 5400 to 7200 rpm? There are 5400 rpm's hdd faster than some 7200 rpm hdd (like WD Scorpio Blue)
 
chrmjenkins said:
No, that's the least of the reasons. Staying with Nvidia is more about keeping a supplier relationship as well as the seamless GPU switching that they've developed with Nvidia. On top of that, they got Nvidia to produce a custom card just for the 13" Source.
Click to expand...

Supplier relationship.. urghhh, not a good idea in the GPU world.

Besides, Nvidia said that the seamless switching was nothing to do with their tech and a creation of Apple alone.
 
Yixian said:
Besides, Nvidia said that the seamless switching was nothing to do with their tech and a creation of Apple alone.
Click to expand...

Source? From what I've read, it was Apple's creation, but it did not say that Nvidia played no part in making the tech possible. I assume they had some role since they were willing to create the 320M for Apple.
 
chrmjenkins, very good job writing this article, we should have this as a Sticky in the MBP forums. I'm very glad to see atleast someone else gets it damn straight.
 
I don't see any obvious evidence that the GPU switching thing couldn't have been done with ATI parts.

I do agree that they're probably sticking with nVidia to get lower prices.

Which is why I would not complain if they either:
1. Offered a decent (ATI, at this point) low-TDP GPU at a large markup.
2. Stopped charging quite such a price premium for a mediocre GPU.

I'm fine with them deciding that they need to save a few bucks so they're gonna go with nVidia, even though the chip is either way weaker than it should be for its TDP, or producing a lot more heat than it should be for its power. I just think that, if they're gonna do that, they should come out and say "nVidia gave us a deal, so we went with a weaker GPU even though there were better chips out there that used less power."

Instead of pretending that this was an awesome GPU; that's the big thing I object to, really.
 
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