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Here's my relatively modest wish-list, not that I'll be buying a new desktop for a long time. I suspect that software won't make full use of the hardware I've got for 3-6 years, unless Snow Leopard is everything I want it to be and more. But I digress!

Hardware:

1. eSATA ports. I think it's about time we had these. Two would be plenty.
2. Firewire 3200 ports. Now would be a good time to deploy this, if they're ready to go on it.
3. Graphics cards that are no more than half a year old. For example, 4870s right now. Failing that, revision of the Nvidia drivers. Please? These guys are not performing as well as they ought to be on anything pro-app oriented. Also, I guess use of Displayport, since that's the way they appear to be going. I feel like straight Displayport instead of mini may work out well if, say, the upcoming 30" display uses regular displayport.
4. Use SATA on the optical drives instead of pATA. Now that the industry is over pATA, apple can get over it as well. May as well make it standard.
5. More USB ports or memory card readers built-in. I guess this is just greedy on my part because I run out of ports frequently and somehow, various hubs tend to work less than perfectly. Would be nice to just tap memory cards straight off of the motherboard with Apple aesthetics.
6. More efficient power supply unit. I hear this one wastes a fair bit of juice, and is somewhat less than completely cutting edge in its construction.
7. More 3.5" HDD bays is impractical, but...what about the addition of 2.5" bays? They could be used for say, Velociraptor boot drives or solid-state boot drives. Not a likely design choice, but maybe some design wizard could figure something out.

Software:

1. Better video card drivers. Please. Core image in particular. Seriously, guys, the pros could use some love here.
2. Software support for Blu-ray. Heaven knows we've already got a lot of what's needed; all that needs to be done to finish is a DVD player style app for movie playback and support in DVD Studio Pro.
3. Better support for multi-channel audio output through the optical connection. This can be had, after a fashion, with some apps, but it's just not there in say, iTunes. I know there's not a lot of demand for it, but it'd be nice. It'd be nice to monitor surround output from FCP/Soundtrack/DVDSP through that connection without needing a full-on mixing board. I'm just a one-man video shop, but I'm enabled to do so many things through bundled software that I'd enjoy using my hardware to its fullest extent.
4. Snow Leopard looks like it's going to work some serious mojo with existing software, but if it's technically feasible, there's one trick I'd love to see entertained: loading entire applications and projects into physical RAM. My 10 gigs could be used to fit, say, my 4 GB photoshop files (once that goes 64-bit!) straight into memory and be operated upon at lightning speed. By the same token, if I moved an HDV project that encompassed less than 45 minutes of footage, operating it all in memory would be blindingly fast by comparison. Now, I'm no bithead so that may all be nonsense, but it's a nifty idea to toss around.
5. ZFS support, native and boot support. Yes. Eliminate redundancy/reliability problems and use onboard bays to accumulate a large storage pool. I like.

Random others:

-Power button back on keyboards? I kind of liked that.

I could ask for more HDD bays or more PCIe slots - and definitely make use of them - but I think it's an unreasonable request unless we want our Mac Pros monstrously large. It's already quite heavy for a tower, and adding more space for that sort of thing would only make it heavier.
 
FireWire 3200 or 6400. My bet is that they're much faster than USB 3.0 for sustained data transfer despite USB's theoretical bandwidth advantage.
 
Blu -Ray on the MAC????

I'm looking to buy the current Mac tower or wait for the next one.
The guide says Wait....
Product Mac Pro
Recommendation: Don't Buy - Updates soon
Last Release January 08, 2008
Days Since Update 369 (Avg = 217)

OK I'll wait. For a bit, my dual 2k G5 is getting old.
I love this thread, but I'm feeling like I'm in the dark... What did Steve/Apple say about Blu-Ray? Where can I find out more info on that. I'm with LAFCPUG, they haven't mentioned anything. I was at NAB and MacWorld, did'nt hear anything there... Please, what did I miss?

Thanks
 
Pretty darn close to my list as well.

1. Why?
for the extra drive bays, I'm tired of having a loud power hungry external box just to house drives.
2. Not until 2010 for USB 3.0
Sadly true
3. It'd be nice.
It's been available on even the cheapest motherboards on the PC side for years.., but I'm OK with 3rd party cards, just give me enough space and power connectors to get at lease six drives in there, eight would be even better.
4. Eh? It's a TOWER.
Uhm, yeah, and the only solution readily available to ingest XDCAMEX on the tower is a slow ass expensive USB card reader from Sony, given the incredible growth rate in this format (JVC is now using it too) and its inclusion on the MacBook Pro, it comes right after more drive bays on my list. Plus it would buy folks a flexible front side expansion bay, (2 more FW ports, serial port, memory card reader etc.)
5. Not until 2015.
Been doing it on the PC side for more than a year, and btw Encore CS4 is fully capable, spits out a nice image, just needs a burner...
6. It'd be nice.
7. ... huh? Wider? Oh. More of them. Talk to ATI and nVidia.
I hear you here.
8. Don't they?
Not that I'm aware of, Black Magic has a standard def chip set, but not hidef
9. Gainestown Nehalem chips

And please don't forget e-sata ports and quite fans.

I'll write the check today.
 
Here's my relatively modest wish-list, not that I'll be buying a new desktop for a long time. I suspect that software won't make full use of the hardware I've got for 3-6 years, unless Snow Leopard is everything I want it to be and more. But I digress!

Hardware:

1. eSATA ports. I think it's about time we had these. Two would be plenty.
2. Firewire 3200 ports. Now would be a good time to deploy this, if they're ready to go on it.
3. Graphics cards that are no more than half a year old. For example, 4870s right now. Failing that, revision of the Nvidia drivers. Please? These guys are not performing as well as they ought to be on anything pro-app oriented. Also, I guess use of Displayport, since that's the way they appear to be going. I feel like straight Displayport instead of mini may work out well if, say, the upcoming 30" display uses regular displayport.
4. Use SATA on the optical drives instead of pATA. Now that the industry is over pATA, apple can get over it as well. May as well make it standard.
5. More USB ports or memory card readers built-in. I guess this is just greedy on my part because I run out of ports frequently and somehow, various hubs tend to work less than perfectly. Would be nice to just tap memory cards straight off of the motherboard with Apple aesthetics.
6. More efficient power supply unit. I hear this one wastes a fair bit of juice, and is somewhat less than completely cutting edge in its construction.
7. More 3.5" HDD bays is impractical, but...what about the addition of 2.5" bays? They could be used for say, Velociraptor boot drives or solid-state boot drives. Not a likely design choice, but maybe some design wizard could figure something out.

Software:

1. Better video card drivers. Please. Core image in particular. Seriously, guys, the pros could use some love here.
2. Software support for Blu-ray. Heaven knows we've already got a lot of what's needed; all that needs to be done to finish is a DVD player style app for movie playback and support in DVD Studio Pro.
3. Better support for multi-channel audio output through the optical connection. This can be had, after a fashion, with some apps, but it's just not there in say, iTunes. I know there's not a lot of demand for it, but it'd be nice. It'd be nice to monitor surround output from FCP/Soundtrack/DVDSP through that connection without needing a full-on mixing board. I'm just a one-man video shop, but I'm enabled to do so many things through bundled software that I'd enjoy using my hardware to its fullest extent.
4. Snow Leopard looks like it's going to work some serious mojo with existing software, but if it's technically feasible, there's one trick I'd love to see entertained: loading entire applications and projects into physical RAM. My 10 gigs could be used to fit, say, my 4 GB photoshop files (once that goes 64-bit!) straight into memory and be operated upon at lightning speed. By the same token, if I moved an HDV project that encompassed less than 45 minutes of footage, operating it all in memory would be blindingly fast by comparison. Now, I'm no bithead so that may all be nonsense, but it's a nifty idea to toss around.
5. ZFS support, native and boot support. Yes. Eliminate redundancy/reliability problems and use onboard bays to accumulate a large storage pool. I like.

Random others:

-Power button back on keyboards? I kind of liked that.

I could ask for more HDD bays or more PCIe slots - and definitely make use of them - but I think it's an unreasonable request unless we want our Mac Pros monstrously large. It's already quite heavy for a tower, and adding more space for that sort of thing would only make it heavier.

Good list!,

Why are more drive bays impractical, Antec has made a pretty big business building PC cases about the same size as a MacPro with more drive spaces than this, and btw the raptor might be a 2.5 inch drive deep down inside, but it's wrapped in a required heat sink that is a 3.5 inch form factor.

I will say moving my (god help me) steel Antec case with all those drives in it is a giant pita, because the thing does weigh a ton, but it easier than wrestling with a cable nest and e-sata drive bays as well. :)
 
Processors on cards

How about giving us the option to easily add more processors.
This would make some sense with the GSD in Snow Leopard.

Maybe a fully modular case design.

The Main module would only have Ram and CPU cards and you could snap on/build up any other options via modules. You could buy a storage module with 1 optical drive 2 hard drive but have an option for a 10 drive array module. Maybe the base expansion module would only come with 2 PCIe slots and have an option for a larger module with 5 or more. They could sell different size power supply modules for different needs. They could sell different I/O modules for different needs, one with the standard ports and wireless and others with different options like more firewire ports or more optical ins and outs.

Of course this wouldn't be easy, they would have to invent a new bus architecture to link each module together and it would add latency and cost but you could build the exact system you need.

I am just throwing ideas out...
 
And please don't forget e-sata ports and quite fans.

And the current impossibly quiet fans aren't quiet enough?

How about giving us the option to easily add more processors.

The Gainestown Nehalem Mac Pro will have 8 real cores and sixteen logical ones...

That not enough for you?

What did Steve/Apple say about Blu-Ray? Where can I find out more info on that. I'm with LAFCPUG, they haven't mentioned anything. I was at NAB and MacWorld, did'nt hear anything there... Please, what did I miss?

Blu-ray is a "bag of hurt". As such, it won't be in Macs until about 2015.

Also, the Buyer's Guide is horribly skewed. The average number of days until an update is FAR more than 200...
 
How about giving us the option to easily add more processors.
This would make some sense with the GSD in Snow Leopard.

Maybe a fully modular case design.

The Main module would only have Ram and CPU cards and you could snap on/build up any other options via modules. You could buy a storage module with 1 optical drive 2 hard drive but have an option for a 10 drive array module. Maybe the base expansion module would only come with 2 PCIe slots and have an option for a larger module with 5 or more. They could sell different size power supply modules for different needs. They could sell different I/O modules for different needs, one with the standard ports and wireless and others with different options like more firewire ports or more optical ins and outs.

Of course this wouldn't be easy, they would have to invent a new bus architecture to link each module together and it would add latency and cost but you could build the exact system you need.

I am just throwing ideas out...

I imagine we may see more modular platforms one day, but right now it isn't practical. Certainly not for Apple anyway.
 
Hardware:
-More USB ports. Seriously, for a professional machine, seeing just 3 USB ports on the back is pathetic. My P4 Dell downstairs (purchased in ~2003) has 5 on the back, and two on the front. Get with the program, Apple! After all, you're the one who's pushing USB. And the "get a hub" solution doesn't cut it.
-Much more efficient PSU. The one we have now garbles lots of energy for nothing. Apple needs to apply their "eco-friendly" touch to our favorite high-end desktop.
-All ports need to be PCI-E x16. With the 1KW PSU, there's no excuse for "not enough power". It's ridiculous that I pay upwards of $3,000 and only get one x16 slot.
-Quieter fans. I know the ones we have now are "quiet", but I should be able to crank em' up a good ways and still sound like a whisper.
-New case? I love the cheese grater (not being sarcastic!), but I feel that Apple's black-on-aluminum look will also be applied to our Mac Pro since the MacBook Pro got an upgrade too.

Software:
-Of course, Snow Leopard. Nuff said.
-Better drivers. + Support for off-the-shelf PC cards, EVEN GENERIC DRIVERS WILL DO. Vista manages it, OS X can too.
-A BIOS-like manager inside of EFI. It's well documented that EFI is an extremely powerful boot manager, so let's integrate a BIOS-style hardware management/diagnostic system.
 
-All ports need to be PCI-E x16. With the 1KW PSU, there's no excuse for "not enough power". It's ridiculous that I pay upwards of $3,000 and only get one x16 slot.

This wasn't anything to do with Apple and the 2008 Mac Pro has two full x16 lanes by the way. The Tylersburg-36D chipset which Apple should be using supports 36 lanes with a single IOH (Input/Output Hub). However the platform can support two IOHs for a total of 72 PCI-E 2.0 lanes which I would expect to see on the Mac Pro.

-Quieter fans. I know the ones we have now are "quiet", but I should be able to crank em' up a good ways and still sound like a whisper.

This is something I'm sure every manufacturer would like to deliver but is perhaps beyond Apple's control.

Software:
-Of course, Snow Leopard. Nuff said.

It is worth considering, for everyone waiting, that the new Mac Pros may not ship without Snow Leopard. Which I guess affects the timeline and software issues for those needing a stable platform.

-Better drivers. + Support for off-the-shelf PC cards, EVEN GENERIC DRIVERS WILL DO. Vista manages it, OS X can too.

Apple could support off-the-shelf cards but they won't because it wouldn't be good business to do so. There is just no money in it for Apple. As for better drives, I think sadly this isn't going to happen as the drivers they have are "enough" to sell systems.
 
Evil Sony

What should the next Mac Pro have....

In my opinion....

1. 8X Blu Ray Drives
2. An NVIDIA GTX 295 (nothing less for the high end)
3. 64 GB DDR3 RAM :eek:
4. New design ... though the current one is really nice Apple must surprise the World with something truly jaw dropping.
5. SSD as BTO option
6. MORE PCI Power connectors that ARE STANDARD!!!

I did a little research last night on the issue of blu-ray. It's BD-ROM vs BD-DVD.
You can install a blu-ray burner for data storage 25gig or DL 50gig. Which is great, BUT...to burn a playable HD movie on blue-ray requires a $2700 license fee to Sony. I'm not sure if it is a one time fee, or per title.
That's the bag of hurt that Steve was talking about. Thanks for input.
 
Good list!,

Why are more drive bays impractical, Antec has made a pretty big business building PC cases about the same size as a MacPro with more drive spaces than this, and btw the raptor might be a 2.5 inch drive deep down inside, but it's wrapped in a required heat sink that is a 3.5 inch form factor.

I will say moving my (god help me) steel Antec case with all those drives in it is a giant pita, because the thing does weigh a ton, but it easier than wrestling with a cable nest and e-sata drive bays as well. :)
There's a couple of good case manufacturers that do great jobs with full tower cases. I just don't have the impression Apple would go that route. :(
But I'd still like to see it. ;)

The transition from 3.5" to 2.5" drives will take some time I think. In the case of the Velociraptor, the heat sink mount is not required. That's just marketing hype, as they sell it without one WD3000BLFS. :eek: :D
This wasn't anything to do with Apple and the 2008 Mac Pro has two full x16 lanes by the way. The Tylersburg-36D chipset which Apple should be using supports 36 lanes with a single IOH (Input/Output Hub). However the platform can support two IOHs for a total of 72 PCI-E 2.0 lanes which I would expect to see on the Mac Pro.
Intel would have had to design such a board for testing, and a good chance Apple would order a custom version. :)
 
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8 core "standard" can't be kept up, the 5500 chips just cost too much. We'd be looking at a $3000 base config.

ahahahaha.. do you realize how much a base pro level Mac used to cost? The IIFX base price was $10,000. The base Mac II price was $5,500. Even at $3,000 today's Mac Pros are a steal for what we get. Dual Quad Core Xeons? Those beautiful cases with the high flow fans, power supplies, etc? We're spoiled with what we have today at these prices.
 
I am remembering that $5,000 G3 PowerBook that now sits in my closet for when I need to do something in OS9. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
 
Forget that! Just give us PCIe 3.0. 1 GB/s data rate? Yes, please.
Greedy are we?
It's not even out yet! 2010 if we're lucky. :eek: :D :p

Though I did get an e-mail from Atto telling me they have their first 6.0Gb/s SAS/SATA OEM RAID adapters available. :D
 
What a waste, PCI-e 1.0 doesn't bottleneck anything. Why would you need more? I guess that's in irrelevant question coming from someone who still uses a 233mhz G3 every day.
 
Fans, cooling design and reliability actually worthy of being called 'workstation' would be nice. The drive bays still P me off, so a change in that aspect would be good too. Apart from that the updates are pretty predictable - and probably won't lead me to buy them.

If the cooling and system layout gets a radical revision, it might persuade me to replace some of the existing Pros.
 
What a waste, PCI-e 1.0 doesn't bottleneck anything. Why would you need more? I guess that's in irrelevant question coming from someone who still uses a 233mhz G3 every day.

Next year or so the PCI-e 1.0 will become useless (actually it might already be) when the only available compatible cards will be the older ati and nvidia cards, especially the extremely limited gpu card variety that the mac pro offers.
 
What a waste, PCI-e 1.0 doesn't bottleneck anything. Why would you need more? I guess that's in irrelevant question coming from someone who still uses a 233mhz G3 every day.


It will become a bottleneck when Snow Leopard is released. The app will need to be re-engineered/recompiled to take advantage of it.

If the program does a lot of floating point calculations OpenCL is really impressive. However it needs to load data to and from the card and the slower bus is the bottleneck.
 
Hey, I forgot one. Slightly better-designed drive bays, preventing the resonance problem. Yes, I know this is fixable through a variety of methods, but it'd be nice to not have to.
 
Next year or so the PCI-e 1.0 will become useless (actually it might already be) when the only available compatible cards will be the older ati and nvidia cards, especially the extremely limited gpu card variety that the mac pro offers.

It will become a bottleneck when Snow Leopard is released. The app will need to be re-engineered/recompiled to take advantage of it.

If the program does a lot of floating point calculations OpenCL is really impressive. However it needs to load data to and from the card and the slower bus is the bottleneck.

Not true, even the GTX 280 and the 4870 don't even get close to saturating the bus. PCI-e 2.0 cards are fully backwards compatible with PCI-e 1.1 slots.
 
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