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The Noctua way or the highway!
- Thread starter BJonson
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Very nice, must have cost quite a bit to change all the fans! I'm still looking for quiet fans that can shift enough air for my MDD, so far nothing has kept it cool enough (that machine is spectacularly loud, especially with the Radeon 9800XT fan going full blast as well!)
Cooler Master for my main case fan. b-blaster for my top of CPUs fan and my PSU fan and two other fans as I need (I change internal fans which I have loose in the case around from time to time), one of which is a Thermaltake.
I went with whatever brand I could find with the highest CFM in the size I needed at my local Fry's Electronics. In most cases this involved a certain amount of splicing wires because of incompatible connectors.
Note that these are not current pics (my QS is down right now) but the fans shown here are the ones I use.
Cooler Master 95CFM and b-blasters 62CFM.
I went with whatever brand I could find with the highest CFM in the size I needed at my local Fry's Electronics. In most cases this involved a certain amount of splicing wires because of incompatible connectors.
Note that these are not current pics (my QS is down right now) but the fans shown here are the ones I use.
Cooler Master 95CFM and b-blasters 62CFM.
Attachments
Hehe, you didn't change the original CPU intake fan.
(I don't even know, if there is a similar fan by Noctua).Did you do stress test, before and after? By what number did the temperatures drop or did they stay the same?
I have a noctua in my PSU (G4 AGP) and if I do longer work on my Mac, I add a 120mm fan by Noiseblocker (could be even quieter for my taste) in front of the PSU. I tend to believe that at least with the graphite G4s (AGP, GE and DA, maybe the quicksilver, too) the PSU is the most vital part to clear out hot air.
Did you look into these links?
(different fans tested) https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1561305/
(with drastic changes) https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1058843/
(fan rearrangement and replacement, see post #10 guide and #11 pictures) https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/279966/
(this is great, it has multiple ideas/Mods with pictures, just look through the pictures and find the corresponding article on the left) http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/
You can also use an additional PCI-Slot fan next to the graphics card, that blows air out of the case. for the card itself, do you already have an Arctic cooling silencer on it? A Zalman VF900-CU (or VF700-CU) is quieter, but does not blow out of the case.
I have kind of a slight obsession with fans in G4s and have some more articles and links somewhere on my Mac, but these were those I could find quickly, yet.
Stuff about Fan replacement and optimisation in all G4s is kind of a collection hobby for me, I even have some lists of possible fans (though that is actually stupid, partly because cfm and dB(A) measures of different manufacturers aren't comparable anyway and one would test several fans and on the other hand, I feel a bit stupid making a list of them, because, once I will buy them they might be gone or there might be new ones to select from...
)
I actually did replace it but I put this one back because I needed it for another project. Yes, noctua makes a fan for every size in the quicksilver. It's a 60mm fan. In that pic I also have a 40mm, a 120mm and an 85mm. The 60mm fan is the same exact size and is so much more quiter.
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Cox Orange,
Thanks for all the links, I'll have a proper read through them. The replacement fan I tried was an Arctic Cooling F12. Connected directly to 12V it didn't really make any difference to the noise situation. Connected to the motherboard fan connector, it didn't run fast enough to move enough air for my liking. I have tried PCI slot coolers in the past, but all my PCI slots are now occupied
Using nap mode, my CPU board temperature usually idles around 38C in winter and 42C now in the summer. Even under heavy load I have never seen it go above 56C.
The graphics card is running with the stock cooler. Unfortunately due to the flashed ROM from a 9800 Pro, the variable speed fan doesn't work, so it's on 100% all the time. What makes matters worse is that the fan bearings are rather worn out, so it's already much louder than it should be. I do have a brand new 9800XT fan coming in the post though, so I'll have to see what difference that makes.
Thanks for all the links, I'll have a proper read through them. The replacement fan I tried was an Arctic Cooling F12. Connected directly to 12V it didn't really make any difference to the noise situation. Connected to the motherboard fan connector, it didn't run fast enough to move enough air for my liking. I have tried PCI slot coolers in the past, but all my PCI slots are now occupied
Using nap mode, my CPU board temperature usually idles around 38C in winter and 42C now in the summer. Even under heavy load I have never seen it go above 56C.
The graphics card is running with the stock cooler. Unfortunately due to the flashed ROM from a 9800 Pro, the variable speed fan doesn't work, so it's on 100% all the time. What makes matters worse is that the fan bearings are rather worn out, so it's already much louder than it should be. I do have a brand new 9800XT fan coming in the post though, so I'll have to see what difference that makes.
@ BJonson:
Thanks for the pics! I wonder, how big the max size of thickness would be for this small fan. It seems there is 5-8mm more space.
@ harrymatic:
42°C in summer sounds great and it is still that loud?
If one can believe the fan specs and compare them to other fans, you could use this list to find other fans (people have used fans with lower airflow, though).
MDD Single CPU (suggestions by aquamac):
taken from here http://aquamac.proboards.com/thread/1174?page=1#8403 , where there is also an info how to build a cooler ATX PSU into the flat housing of a MDD-PSU and make room for other fans. (I've also seen people cut of a part of the PSU metal at the end and put 1 80mm fan there, instead of the two 60x25mm fans, I am not sure though how that does match up with the PCI cards.)
* PSU - stock 2x Minebea 2410ML-04W-B60 5300 RPM 25CFM @ 38dBA
New - Startech FAN6X25TX3H 5000 RPM 26.5 CFM @ 30 dBA
* Door - stock Delta AFB0612HHB 4500 RPM 17.3 CFM @ 35dBA (60x15mm)
New - Startech FAN6X1TX3 4000 RPM 15.9 CFM @ 28 dBA
* CPU - stock Papst 4212H 3400 RPM 108CFM @ 49dBA
New - Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12SH 1900 RPM 110.31 CFM @ 37 dBA
MDD DUAL CPU:
* PSU: 60x60x25mm. stock Delta fans, model AFB0612EH, fix at 6800rpm, constant 38 CFM, 47 dBA. ---> 64m3/h
* Door: 60x60x15mm ???
* CPU: 120x120x38mm, under 69cfm at low speed, stock Delta AFB1212SHE variable speed fan that can spin up to 3700rpm with a maximum airflow of 152 CFM and a noise level of up to 53 dBA
OR SHORTER (for cfm devide m3/h measures by 1,69):
MDD Single CPU:
60 x 25 = 42,25m3/h / 38dB(A)
60 x 15 = 29,24m3/h / 35dB(A)
120 x 38 = 180m3/h / 49dB(A)
MDD DUAL CPU:
60 x 25 = 64m3/h / 47dB(A)
60 x 15 = ?
120 x 38 = (ca. 110-) 258m3/h / 53dB(A)
It is said, that the door fan (60x15mm) is not a real noise factor.
I have two fans in my list that would fit there, though (one being very rare to find):
Fander Roxo Ultra Silent 60x60x15mm, 2300rpm, 31.6m³/h, 16.8dB(A)
Xilence WhiteBox SlimLine, 60x60x12mm, 2100rpm, 50m³/h, 22B(A) (COO-XPF60S.W)
For my Sawtooth I tested a supposed quieter 120mm fan to meet the 146m3/h (86cfm and 32dB(A)) by Xigmatek, which I found louder than the stock one (it has 150m3/h /90cfm:
XIGMATEK XAF-F1255
airflow (m3/h): 90cfm (as stated by manufacturer)
noise (dB(A)): 26max (as stated by manufacturer)
subjective noise: loud
That info doesn't help you anyway, since the Single CPU MDD has a max airflow of 180m3/h, but if you want to try a lower airflow fan, like others have done, you are warned that the Xigmatek is not worth a try (unless case design has a vital effect on sound design as well...)
Edit: on the 9800, go to themacelite. There are some cards that either way support fan speed control or can take a special rom that allows fan speed control. If you might want to reflash it or search for another 9800 model or a better stock cooler that someone pulled of a 9800 with one of the special coolers.
Here is the buying guide with all 9800 cards (including not working ones, that are told to avoid) and remarks about what ROM (size/version) can be used and the features. http://themacelite.wikidot.com/flasher-s-buying-guide-9800
Only working 9800 cards http://themacelite.wikidot.com/9800-working
Remark on additional cards, that won't work (scroll down) http://themacelite.wikidot.com/ati-radeon
This intertesting about flashing and moding ROM chips http://themacelite.wikidot.com/navsubcat
Other than that browse through the index on the left side.
In the compatibility chart they notice that a 9800 won't work in a Sawtooth, because there is no 2xAGP 9800, but there are, you can find them in the working 9800 cards guide. (I just metnion it for future reference, I know you will be able to use a 4x/8xAGP 9800 in the MDD).
Thanks for the pics! I wonder, how big the max size of thickness would be for this small fan. It seems there is 5-8mm more space.
@ harrymatic:
42°C in summer sounds great and it is still that loud?
If one can believe the fan specs and compare them to other fans, you could use this list to find other fans (people have used fans with lower airflow, though).
MDD Single CPU (suggestions by aquamac):
taken from here http://aquamac.proboards.com/thread/1174?page=1#8403 , where there is also an info how to build a cooler ATX PSU into the flat housing of a MDD-PSU and make room for other fans. (I've also seen people cut of a part of the PSU metal at the end and put 1 80mm fan there, instead of the two 60x25mm fans, I am not sure though how that does match up with the PCI cards.)
* PSU - stock 2x Minebea 2410ML-04W-B60 5300 RPM 25CFM @ 38dBA
New - Startech FAN6X25TX3H 5000 RPM 26.5 CFM @ 30 dBA
* Door - stock Delta AFB0612HHB 4500 RPM 17.3 CFM @ 35dBA (60x15mm)
New - Startech FAN6X1TX3 4000 RPM 15.9 CFM @ 28 dBA
* CPU - stock Papst 4212H 3400 RPM 108CFM @ 49dBA
New - Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12SH 1900 RPM 110.31 CFM @ 37 dBA
MDD DUAL CPU:
* PSU: 60x60x25mm. stock Delta fans, model AFB0612EH, fix at 6800rpm, constant 38 CFM, 47 dBA. ---> 64m3/h
* Door: 60x60x15mm ???
* CPU: 120x120x38mm, under 69cfm at low speed, stock Delta AFB1212SHE variable speed fan that can spin up to 3700rpm with a maximum airflow of 152 CFM and a noise level of up to 53 dBA
OR SHORTER (for cfm devide m3/h measures by 1,69):
MDD Single CPU:
60 x 25 = 42,25m3/h / 38dB(A)
60 x 15 = 29,24m3/h / 35dB(A)
120 x 38 = 180m3/h / 49dB(A)
MDD DUAL CPU:
60 x 25 = 64m3/h / 47dB(A)
60 x 15 = ?
120 x 38 = (ca. 110-) 258m3/h / 53dB(A)
It is said, that the door fan (60x15mm) is not a real noise factor.
I have two fans in my list that would fit there, though (one being very rare to find):
Fander Roxo Ultra Silent 60x60x15mm, 2300rpm, 31.6m³/h, 16.8dB(A)
Xilence WhiteBox SlimLine, 60x60x12mm, 2100rpm, 50m³/h, 22B(A) (COO-XPF60S.W)
For my Sawtooth I tested a supposed quieter 120mm fan to meet the 146m3/h (86cfm and 32dB(A)) by Xigmatek, which I found louder than the stock one (it has 150m3/h /90cfm:
XIGMATEK XAF-F1255
airflow (m3/h): 90cfm (as stated by manufacturer)
noise (dB(A)): 26max (as stated by manufacturer)
subjective noise: loud
That info doesn't help you anyway, since the Single CPU MDD has a max airflow of 180m3/h, but if you want to try a lower airflow fan, like others have done, you are warned that the Xigmatek is not worth a try (unless case design has a vital effect on sound design as well...
)Edit: on the 9800, go to themacelite. There are some cards that either way support fan speed control or can take a special rom that allows fan speed control. If you might want to reflash it or search for another 9800 model or a better stock cooler that someone pulled of a 9800 with one of the special coolers.
Here is the buying guide with all 9800 cards (including not working ones, that are told to avoid) and remarks about what ROM (size/version) can be used and the features. http://themacelite.wikidot.com/flasher-s-buying-guide-9800
Only working 9800 cards http://themacelite.wikidot.com/9800-working
Remark on additional cards, that won't work (scroll down) http://themacelite.wikidot.com/ati-radeon
This intertesting about flashing and moding ROM chips http://themacelite.wikidot.com/navsubcat
Other than that browse through the index on the left side.
In the compatibility chart they notice that a 9800 won't work in a Sawtooth, because there is no 2xAGP 9800, but there are, you can find them in the working 9800 cards guide. (I just metnion it for future reference, I know you will be able to use a 4x/8xAGP 9800 in the MDD).
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Cox Orange
I'll look out for some of the fans you mentioned, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I've just moved my G4 onto my desk and the noise is just killing me!
I might try out a Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12H. It can push 88.11 CFM so it may work (I have a dual 1.33 CPU).
Unfortunately, it seems there are only two working ROMs which I can use with my 9800XT - a modified 9800 Pro ROM which works great but has the fan on 100%, or a reduced OEM 9800XT ROM which does have fan control but no working DVI (a real bummer). I also experienced minor graphical artifacts with this ROM. I've tried pretty much every 9800 ROM and had a go at modifying a few but these were the only two real contenders.
I'll look out for some of the fans you mentioned, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I've just moved my G4 onto my desk and the noise is just killing me!
I might try out a Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12H. It can push 88.11 CFM so it may work (I have a dual 1.33 CPU).
Unfortunately, it seems there are only two working ROMs which I can use with my 9800XT - a modified 9800 Pro ROM which works great but has the fan on 100%, or a reduced OEM 9800XT ROM which does have fan control but no working DVI (a real bummer). I also experienced minor graphical artifacts with this ROM. I've tried pretty much every 9800 ROM and had a go at modifying a few but these were the only two real contenders.
I heard nothing but good about Scythe fans.
Since I read that other users have used lower air flow fans for that 120mm case fan, that might be ok, if you want to go nearer to the stock values, be informed that they have fans with even 250m3/h = 147cfm. (OK, other manufacturers have them, too.)
The slip stream series can be had with up to 187m3/h (110cfm), it is the 1900rpm model.
Maybe have a look at the high rpm models of the Scythe glide stream and gentle typhoon (or maybe Grand flex, though that might be similar to the SilenX Ixtrema IXP-76-18 that some have tested and some found it not really quiet, though a bit quieter). I am thinking of the high air flow fans, since I guess they won't run at top speed anyway, right? Then on the other hand, if the MDD fan control has its barrier to the faster speeds set at an low entry, one might be better off with a ca. 90cfm (150m3/h) fan, if the max speed still provides enough air.
Not quite sure, if I got across, what I mean. I mean, for example the MDD fan control for the case fan has three steps (just making this up!): low 800rpm, mid 1000rpm and mac 2000rpm. If the used fan will have its top at 1500rpm and it cools enough, the internal fan control won't rise it as much as a 3000rpm fan, where it might get into cooling regions that add far more cooling than needed at the cost of noise.
One I always wanted to test was the Zaward Golf Fan G3, 120mm, 2000rpm (ZG3-120D) versus the Scythe Glide Stream 120 1600rpm (SY1225HB12H), since both look good on paper. (This 1600rpm glide stream has a slightly higher air flow than the slip stream SY1225SL12H and 2dB(A) less)
Since you are from the UK, I can share this link with you http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=coolfan I use the German version for sorting out stuff by features all the time (and of course for comparing prices).
You can set the filters for airflow, noise and constant air pressure (the last being a good indicator as well, if one believes that fans by different manufacturers are comprarable anyway). I leave air pressure out, when I search, because some listings don't mention that and so they will not be shown.
You might also want to try fans with 3,5 to 3,8mm thickness, I mean, if there is room enough, why not.
Since I read that other users have used lower air flow fans for that 120mm case fan, that might be ok, if you want to go nearer to the stock values, be informed that they have fans with even 250m3/h = 147cfm. (OK, other manufacturers have them, too.)
The slip stream series can be had with up to 187m3/h (110cfm), it is the 1900rpm model.
Maybe have a look at the high rpm models of the Scythe glide stream and gentle typhoon (or maybe Grand flex, though that might be similar to the SilenX Ixtrema IXP-76-18 that some have tested and some found it not really quiet, though a bit quieter). I am thinking of the high air flow fans, since I guess they won't run at top speed anyway, right? Then on the other hand, if the MDD fan control has its barrier to the faster speeds set at an low entry, one might be better off with a ca. 90cfm (150m3/h) fan, if the max speed still provides enough air.
Not quite sure, if I got across, what I mean. I mean, for example the MDD fan control for the case fan has three steps (just making this up!): low 800rpm, mid 1000rpm and mac 2000rpm. If the used fan will have its top at 1500rpm and it cools enough, the internal fan control won't rise it as much as a 3000rpm fan, where it might get into cooling regions that add far more cooling than needed at the cost of noise.
One I always wanted to test was the Zaward Golf Fan G3, 120mm, 2000rpm (ZG3-120D) versus the Scythe Glide Stream 120 1600rpm (SY1225HB12H), since both look good on paper. (This 1600rpm glide stream has a slightly higher air flow than the slip stream SY1225SL12H and 2dB(A) less
)Since you are from the UK, I can share this link with you http://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=coolfan I use the German version for sorting out stuff by features all the time (and of course for comparing prices).
You can set the filters for airflow, noise and constant air pressure (the last being a good indicator as well, if one believes that fans by different manufacturers are comprarable anyway). I leave air pressure out, when I search, because some listings don't mention that and so they will not be shown.
You might also want to try fans with 3,5 to 3,8mm thickness, I mean, if there is room enough, why not.
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Hehe, yes, I found it useful to know the specs of the stock fan and the guide for the PSU transformation. I hope it is ok, since I provided the link to the source.
I am not so sure about these startech fans. Did you try other fans (if quieter)? Are they still going good?
I thought Startech was one of the cheaper (and also in the OEM businesss) brands. I am not saying cheap is neccessarily bad, though. On the other hands there are few choices from other manufacturers for these small fans that meet the specs on paper.
I am not so sure about these startech fans. Did you try other fans (if quieter)? Are they still going good?
I thought Startech was one of the cheaper (and also in the OEM businesss) brands. I am not saying cheap is neccessarily bad, though. On the other hands there are few choices from other manufacturers for these small fans that meet the specs on paper.
If i still had the MDD... at the time, those were the only fans that were quiet in Edmonton AB.
I also used the same fans in the G5 PSU, and it made it super quiet in that aspect. If i were to do it again, i would go the Noctua route. Right now all i have running on the Mac side is an old TiBook 867 modded with a third USB connection. (that's a different story)
as for borrowing the thread, no worries, i also have a link on all the fans that are used on the G4 models.
"System and Cooling" by All Things PPC
I also used the same fans in the G5 PSU, and it made it super quiet in that aspect. If i were to do it again, i would go the Noctua route. Right now all i have running on the Mac side is an old TiBook 867 modded with a third USB connection. (that's a different story)
as for borrowing the thread, no worries, i also have a link on all the fans that are used on the G4 models.
"System and Cooling" by All Things PPC
Oh, didn't explore that one on Japamac's site. That's good. When the link was still available (the wayback amchine has it, though) I often referred to another page, but that did not have all fans. I also collected the MDD fan data from a xlr8yourmac article.
It seems, though, Japamac isn't differentiating between the Single CPU MDD and the Dual.
Icing on the cake would be, if he had listed the other fans he had tested and that "failed" for him. So one doesn't buy them accidentally when wanting to try something different out.
It seems, though, Japamac isn't differentiating between the Single CPU MDD and the Dual.
Icing on the cake would be, if he had listed the other fans he had tested and that "failed" for him. So one doesn't buy them accidentally when wanting to try something different out.