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The Oscars: Crash? WTF?
- Thread starter leekohler
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leekohler said:
Isn't "don't hate each other" generally accepted in society? I mean, there are still racists who think hating is good, but I doubt you'll find many people, whether they be racist or not, who think hating is a good thing. The movie wasn't trying to make you think that hating other races was bad, it was making you think about how huge a problem it is, that the answer isn't just "don't hate anyone." Take for example Matt Dillon's character. At times you want to hate him for being racist, but at others you can understand the way he thinks.
The movie raises questions about whether racial equality and the complete abolition of racism is possible and how one should go about it. Should you have affirmative action to help minorities, since as we saw, it hurts some poor whites? Do you make political decisions based on race so as to appear balanced? There were a lot more questions in that movie than answers. The thing you think the movie was preaching was the base of the movie, not the end goal.
I've seen all of the nominated movies but Capote and I thought this year was a particularly strong year for great movies. I wouldn't have argued if any of the four nominated movies I saw had won.
Crash is one of the only movies I've seen come out of Hollywood to deal honestly with racism. Each character was a fully drawn complex person, not some silly caricature. This wasn't some smarmy feel good movie with the racist bad guys being defeated by the perfect good guys. It challenged the viewer and it did so with intelligence and insight. If you didn't come out of that movie reevaluating how we all treat each other based on our perceived differences - you missed the whole point. Great, Great movie!
Brokeback Mountain could easily have won and deserved it if it did. How many people are talking about this movie who don't even have the nerve to be seen going to it? It shakes people up! Well, good. It too challenges movie goers to reevaluate the nature of love. If you go into this movie and, again, expected the characters to be perfect human beings then you are looking for fantasy not real life. In the time and place the main characters are living through they cannot live a life where they can openly express their love because of the very real fear for their lives. What that does to a person and to the people that are effected by their hidden lives is something that should challenge people to look beyond the jokes of just a "gay cowboy" movie. If you haven't seen this movie, do your self a favor and go see it soon. It's the grown up thing to do.
Munich is a movie that challenges the viewer to go beyond the stereotypes of good guys and terrorists and asks the needed question what happens to the "good guys" when they resort to terrorism themselves? Makes you uncomfortable? It damn well should. It's Speilberg at his highest level - right up there with Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List.
Good Night, and Good Luck is the most purely one sided movie of the lot. There is no doubt Murrow is the good guy and McCarthy is the bad guy. Something I admit I totally agree with, but the real challenge of this movie is to ask the viewer through the story of Murrow's principled stance against the McCarthyism if they would do the same. Highly topical in this day and age.
All the above are beautiful, well-crafted, wonderfully-acted movies that make you think. If you're looking for the Sound of Music you're just being lazy. I've nothing against well done fluff, but I also like a little substance in my movies and this year we got it in spades.
Crash is one of the only movies I've seen come out of Hollywood to deal honestly with racism. Each character was a fully drawn complex person, not some silly caricature. This wasn't some smarmy feel good movie with the racist bad guys being defeated by the perfect good guys. It challenged the viewer and it did so with intelligence and insight. If you didn't come out of that movie reevaluating how we all treat each other based on our perceived differences - you missed the whole point. Great, Great movie!
Brokeback Mountain could easily have won and deserved it if it did. How many people are talking about this movie who don't even have the nerve to be seen going to it? It shakes people up! Well, good. It too challenges movie goers to reevaluate the nature of love. If you go into this movie and, again, expected the characters to be perfect human beings then you are looking for fantasy not real life. In the time and place the main characters are living through they cannot live a life where they can openly express their love because of the very real fear for their lives. What that does to a person and to the people that are effected by their hidden lives is something that should challenge people to look beyond the jokes of just a "gay cowboy" movie. If you haven't seen this movie, do your self a favor and go see it soon. It's the grown up thing to do.
Munich is a movie that challenges the viewer to go beyond the stereotypes of good guys and terrorists and asks the needed question what happens to the "good guys" when they resort to terrorism themselves? Makes you uncomfortable? It damn well should. It's Speilberg at his highest level - right up there with Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List.
Good Night, and Good Luck is the most purely one sided movie of the lot. There is no doubt Murrow is the good guy and McCarthy is the bad guy. Something I admit I totally agree with, but the real challenge of this movie is to ask the viewer through the story of Murrow's principled stance against the McCarthyism if they would do the same. Highly topical in this day and age.
All the above are beautiful, well-crafted, wonderfully-acted movies that make you think. If you're looking for the Sound of Music you're just being lazy. I've nothing against well done fluff, but I also like a little substance in my movies and this year we got it in spades.
Sayhey said:
I have to agree with everything you've said. Personally I felt Munich was the most honest film of the lot and for the serious viewer also the most touching and revealing. I feel that it was just too politcal for the people of influence to back when it came to awards and that I find very sad. Both Crash and Brokeback Mountain did challenge percieved racism and attitudes towards sexual orientation but to my mind both were very Hollywood and whilst being good films are not classics.
Given a few years I feel Munich will standout as the film with the most powerful message and in general a superb piece of film making.
As a Brit it was great to see Rachael and Wallace and Grommit get rewarded in their respective catagories as well.
Its funny because after reading the 1st page of this thread, you'd think that lots of people hated Brokeback and Crash, but really, only like 5 people posted in that first page. 
I didn't see any of the nominated movies this year, except Wallace and Gromit, where I saw half of it before switching it off on the airplane.
I didn't see any of the nominated movies this year, except Wallace and Gromit, where I saw half of it before switching it off on the airplane.
So did it get better?
I changed channels shortly after George Clooney won his best supporting actor award and gave the speech where he reminded America how lucky we are to have "out of touch" guys like him around. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back there, George.
I really wanted Jon Stewart to do well, but what I did see of his presentation was just painful to watch. Did he get any more comfortable as the show went on? It's been awhile since I've seen flop sweat like that.
I changed channels shortly after George Clooney won his best supporting actor award and gave the speech where he reminded America how lucky we are to have "out of touch" guys like him around. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back there, George.
I really wanted Jon Stewart to do well, but what I did see of his presentation was just painful to watch. Did he get any more comfortable as the show went on? It's been awhile since I've seen flop sweat like that.
Was really rooting for my buddy Terrance Howard for best actor (went to college with him) but of course Mr Hoffman won being the favorite. Oh well, Hustle and flow was "Indie" and Capote was "mainstream" and this was expected. I also havent seen Capote so I cant really make the comparison. Terrance did however have a significant role in Crash and seems to be very proud of being involved in the "Best Picture" project (haven't seen this either).
Congrats Terrance and keep up the good work! Your day will come, your tallent deserves it.
Congrats Terrance and keep up the good work! Your day will come, your tallent deserves it.
He did OK. I think what was hard for him was that the audience at the Oscars isn't used to an understated approach. They are used to humor given with a large grin, while Stewart has a wry intellectual style that's not as silly. More Steven Wright than Robin Williams. Even with the same types of jokes we hear every year, it took a bit more to make the audience laugh.Lyle said:
It just so happens that I rented Crash on Saturday, so it's fresh in my mind.
The Good: The dialogue and editing were both excellent. (I was surprised when those were the two categories it won because the Oscars almost never gibe with my impressions.) It did a very good job of tying the different threads together without being confusing. I really liked how the dialogue was filled with context and didn't try to do too much. There's a shot where Phillippe has a stunned look on his face after shooting someone, and he realizes how it will look, without saying anything out loud. Notice I said the dialogue and not the script.
Some of the scenes were very thought-provoking. I especially liked the D.A. wishing his carjackers hadn't been black because it makes him look bad. The sequences with characters arguing affirmative action were very genuine. I liked the bit about the two thugs getting annoyed that white people were afraid of them, just before they threaten to shoot someone. The black couple arguing about who was black and who was "black." And the running theme of people mistaking one another for the wrong race/ethnicity was well done.
The Bad: Much of the rest of the movie was contrived and heavy-handed. Glorious music to let you know that something poignant has happened. The Chinese immigrants thread was incredibly tacked-on. The coincidences that tied the plot together didn't work for me; it was more of a collection of racial prejudice stories than a movie. (Trying to avoid spoilers here.) The sequence where a man pulls a gun on a guy in his front yard was really amateurish. I thought Sandra Bullock's character was a lame stereotype, just tossed in to make sure we had a "rich white lady who's afraid of immigrants" in there. Didn't you know that a bigot can also be compassionate to his own family members? And what race-message film would be complete without a racist cop?
In summary, there were nuggets in there that I really liked. But it tries way too hard to be a message film, rather than presenting a story and letting you fill in most of the context. Million Dollar Baby was much better at this, for example.
Interestingly, I liked Good Night, and Good Luck better, even though it's also an in-your-face message film. It was very focused and had no showy montages or cheesy music. (Actually almost no music at all.) Maybe I've already seen too many movies about racial tension to really appreciate it anymore.
The Good: The dialogue and editing were both excellent. (I was surprised when those were the two categories it won because the Oscars almost never gibe with my impressions.) It did a very good job of tying the different threads together without being confusing. I really liked how the dialogue was filled with context and didn't try to do too much. There's a shot where Phillippe has a stunned look on his face after shooting someone, and he realizes how it will look, without saying anything out loud. Notice I said the dialogue and not the script.
Some of the scenes were very thought-provoking. I especially liked the D.A. wishing his carjackers hadn't been black because it makes him look bad. The sequences with characters arguing affirmative action were very genuine. I liked the bit about the two thugs getting annoyed that white people were afraid of them, just before they threaten to shoot someone. The black couple arguing about who was black and who was "black." And the running theme of people mistaking one another for the wrong race/ethnicity was well done.
The Bad: Much of the rest of the movie was contrived and heavy-handed. Glorious music to let you know that something poignant has happened. The Chinese immigrants thread was incredibly tacked-on. The coincidences that tied the plot together didn't work for me; it was more of a collection of racial prejudice stories than a movie. (Trying to avoid spoilers here.) The sequence where a man pulls a gun on a guy in his front yard was really amateurish. I thought Sandra Bullock's character was a lame stereotype, just tossed in to make sure we had a "rich white lady who's afraid of immigrants" in there. Didn't you know that a bigot can also be compassionate to his own family members? And what race-message film would be complete without a racist cop?
In summary, there were nuggets in there that I really liked. But it tries way too hard to be a message film, rather than presenting a story and letting you fill in most of the context. Million Dollar Baby was much better at this, for example.
Interestingly, I liked Good Night, and Good Luck better, even though it's also an in-your-face message film. It was very focused and had no showy montages or cheesy music. (Actually almost no music at all.) Maybe I've already seen too many movies about racial tension to really appreciate it anymore.
aloofman said:
I'll go with that assessment. I will say I did like the actors. But on the whole, not a film worthy of an Oscar.
The thing I liked about Crash was that it wasn't afraid to say: HEY! MORONS! THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE REAL WORLD." And it showed that not only white people are racists.
I agree some of it was a little spoonfed, but sometimes that has to happen in order to get the message across to people.
All in all, Walk The line should have won this award, but then again the idiots at the acededmy didn't even nominate it. *sigh*
I agree some of it was a little spoonfed, but sometimes that has to happen in order to get the message across to people.
All in all, Walk The line should have won this award, but then again the idiots at the acededmy didn't even nominate it. *sigh*
Onizuka said:
That's what I think too. But having said that, I think it's ludicrous that a movie that only speaks to a small group of people that need to be spoonfed, its hard for me to believe it should have won best film.
As I said before, I didn't see all the films, only Crash and Brokeback, so I'm not fit to say what should or shouldn't have won, but going from the trailers and clips I saw, Capote looked like it should have beat Crash easily.
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My problem with Crash was the fact its 2006 and I would expect more stories like that back in the 80's and 90's. Am I supposed to believe that people are that racist in today's society?? Especially at a television studio?? I think not. Give me a break--I stayed pissed off the entire movie because of how racist people were---HOWEVER it was NOT believable in this day and time here in America. Yes, there are ignorant people all over the United States, but there is NO WAY half that **** would fly (not even in the southern redneck town where I am from--not these days).
I watched Crash on campus with a multi-racial audience. Social science teachers actually picked out who they wanted to attend the event by offering extra credit. I thought the movie was well written and stuck with me hours afterwards. I do think the cop crap was overdone. I also think that the car jackers were a little too un-realistic. Overall, I thought the feeling the movie gave me, could reach others who stay racially divided. Nashville Tennessee still has plenty of racial walls to break down or climb over.
macartistkel said:
i believe you need to get out more. go to a city where there are a variety of races. and tell me that racism is a thing of the past.
Sorry, macartistkel, if anything I think the movie understates the reality.
aloofman, I don't think Matt Dillon's portrayal can be reduced to the stereotype racist cop. The movie tried to not only show the prejudices that all its characters carried, but it also tried to show the roots of those prejudices. It treated each of the characters with respect. Respect not only for the real people who they represent, but also in the time given to develop each story so that the audience can respect them as flawed but real people. Now that is something different from Hollywood. I think any movie can be nitpicked to death, but this one is something brave and new in its attempt and skilled in its delivery. To each his own, I guess, but I loved this movie.
aloofman, I don't think Matt Dillon's portrayal can be reduced to the stereotype racist cop. The movie tried to not only show the prejudices that all its characters carried, but it also tried to show the roots of those prejudices. It treated each of the characters with respect. Respect not only for the real people who they represent, but also in the time given to develop each story so that the audience can respect them as flawed but real people. Now that is something different from Hollywood. I think any movie can be nitpicked to death, but this one is something brave and new in its attempt and skilled in its delivery. To each his own, I guess, but I loved this movie.
Sayhey said:
I didn't have a problem with Matt Dillon's portrayal. My point was that the racist cop character has become a movie cliche. I didn't see anything brave or new about that character because so many other movies have done it. It was controversial when Colors came out, but it's a safe choice now.
It's not that there wasn't any skill in the movie because there obviously was. I just thought that its execution was heavy-handed in a lot of ways. So much effort was put into hammering home the message that I thought the storytelling suffered somewhat.
Among Best Picture winners I'd put it in the middle of the pack. It's still more worthy than Titanic or Shakespeare In Love.
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Well that is just pathetic if it is in fact the reality (I could barely watch the movie because I was like NO EFFING WAY could this happen to people---what the hell is wrong with people---actually its borderline calling someone a human being that actually thinks that their skin color puts them in a seperate class???? I still think it has to be the older generations who are so racist because most of them grew up in the time when there were seperate black and white schools. Absolutely NO EXCUSE to be able to use their BRAINS. I just don't get how ANYONE in their right mind would think that is normal??!! I am shocked.
macartistkel said:
It's actually quite refreshing to see you think this way. We all should be shocked that such things are still possible, but unfortunately they very much are possible and happen all the time.
macartistkel said:
Note sure if you realize this, but being put in a seperate class simply because of the color of your skin has happened, since, oh, I don't know FOREVER. Does it make it right? No. Does it still happen every day? Yes.
I'm sorry, but everyone, whether they have admitted it or not, has had some kind of racist thought, or maybe even said something at some point, that has been racist. Even if you're not proud of it, or think it's wrong, it's happened.
Now, take that, and look at society, and really think if this is NOT possible. Let's take a small example: Jews and Palestinians. Or wait, are you saying this couldn't happen in America? Heh. Man. America has some of the most racist people around. Mayor's, Governers, *cough*presidents*cough*. Racism is a FACT. And yes, more than just whites use it.