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7on said:
I see it like this...
Bill Gates = Computer Nerd
Steve Jobs = Marketing/Sales Genius


I dont see why everyone thinks Steve Jobs is a marketing and sales genius. How is relying on word of mouth and a few ipod commercials to sell Apples a marketing/advertising phenomenon. I think the worst thing about Apples is there marketing strategy. IMHO
 
It seems Jobs is better because he offers a superior product, is what i can deduce from the posts. i think what is worse is that Gates is now trying to appear cool, which he can't do. Jobs seems less geeky. The very mention of Jobs's name seems to stir up passion!
 
Just to ponder:

Passion- from Late Latin, physical suffering, martyrdom, sinful desire, from Latin, an undergoing, from passus, past participle of pat, to suffer.

That's the original definition, now "passion" has come to mean lust, desire, or strong feelings (sexual or otherwise).
 
sethypoo said:
Just to ponder:

Passion- from Late Latin, physical suffering, martyrdom, sinful desire, from Latin, an undergoing, from passus, past participle of pat, to suffer.

That's the original definition, now "passion" has come to mean lust, desire, or strong feelings (sexual or otherwise).

yeah - i guess the film refers to the suffering part, but my thread uses the 'having a love for' meaning. :)
 
Savage Henry said:
Sorry squire, I retract my impulsive response. I just felt you implied, by using the Forbes list, the superiority of the product which put Gates on top of it. I totally agree with you re the BMW analogies!

Persona-wise, I've not met either so I can't really say. I very much doubt they are any different to other CEOs. But as much as it's easy to slag Gates off, at least he's not Steve Bulmer. Jobs puts across a more confident style.

Nahhh, it was all me. :D I didn't mean to come off like a heavy.
I agree, Balmer is pretty wacked out.

markjones05 said:
I dont see why everyone thinks Steve Jobs is a marketing and sales genius. How is relying on word of mouth and a few ipod commercials to sell Apples a marketing/advertising phenomenon. I think the worst thing about Apples is there marketing strategy. IMHO

Bite your tongue! :D Actually, Apple has had some pretty memorable ad campaigns. How about the whole Switch thing? The "Snail" ads. The 1984 ad.
 
rueyeet said:
FistfulofAngst said:
like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?
I dunno...when they're webcast, archived in QuickTime, shown at every Apple Store theatre, and reported on by most major tech press outlets, I'd scarcely call them "secret". :D

Apple in general, and Steve Jobs in particular, has the ability to get people truly excited about Apple products. In years of Windows use, I've viewed all the various Office and OS upgrades as "Oh God, what are they going to do to us now?", but every new release of OS X contains new stuff that I'd love to have and use....more of a "Wow, what cool new stuff does Apple have for us this time?"

It's generally agreed that without Steve Jobs, Apple as we know it would not exist...in fact, if they hadn't got him back, Apple's share would probably be 0% and the company long since defunct. Instead of looking at it as a question of "If Jobs is so great, why isn't Apple's marketshare higher?" think of it as quite likely that it's due to Jobs that Apple still has any marketshare at all, in the face of Microsoft's monopoly tactics.

you both know that SJ has a dedicated worldwide live QT stream + his own satelite co-ordinates for at least MWSF? Bill has to use good ol' CNN for national coverage only.

a cult? well - yes. I watch MWSF every year via QT - at 2am in the morning (<-- check loc.)
 
FistfulofAngst said:
like Christians Mac fanatics weird me out, don't get me wrong but those MacExpo keynote speeches look like secret cult meeting to me. :confused:

no hate pms please?
why do we have to turn this into a racial thread?? The keynote speeches are in no way a cult meeting, alot of the people enjoy them because Steve-o is such a good speaker...
Steve Jobs =innovator
Bil gates=copycat

P.S. i'm not saying steve is a saint....after all, he did prank call the pope :D :D
 
The differences between the two, and why Steve has "followers", whereas everybody hates Gates, are pretty clear if you pay attention to the history of the men at all.

Basically, Steve Jobs sees the computer, and the computing experience, as his art. Your computer and the way it runs is his artistic vision, and so although he's overly controlling of it (most artists are), he strives to make it work just right.

Bill Gates wants control, but he wants control for control's sake--so long as it's his product, and he gets a slice of what you do with it, he could care less how it works. The mentality of an artist versus the mentality of a businessman (or megalomaniac).

Gates' style may have advantages in flexibility, but Jobs' has the leg up on elegance and producing a product that feels good to use, even if it's more expensive. I'll take the latter, personally.


My detailed analysis:

Steve Jobs was never a particularly good geek--he was a visionary. He had great ideas about ways to make computers friendly, fun, and part of a normal person's life. That's where the Apple came from, that's where the original Macintosh came from, that's where the iMac came from, and that's where iLife and the iPod came from. He didn't design any of those products personally, but he saw how something like them could make a difference to ordinary people.

He also tried to do the same with Next, but only succeded in producing a cool computer that nobody used and a very nice Unix variant OS that a few people really loved.

As for evidence of what Steve's done for Apple, it's simple: When he was first there, the Apple line was successful and fun. The early Macs were successful and fun. Then Steve left, and we got a line of so-so but still nice Macs. Then we got another CEO (Gil Amelio) who tried to run Apple like a "normal" business--commodity computers, licensing, a functional but uncreative OS. What did that produce? Red ink, falling marketshare, and boring computers (though the 8600s weren't bad). Steve came back, and we immediately got the iMac--the first computer that was fun to look at--and later OSX and the whole iLife shebang. No question that's all Steve, and even if Apple's marketshare is limited, it's what keeps them relevant and a source of pride for people who own their products.

Contrast all that with Bill Gates. Bill Gates is a geek, and a good one. And like Steve Jobs, he's something of a control freak. But unlike Steve, who likes complete control over "his" product, Gates wants complete control over the user through the product. The end result is a hand in every aspect of the computing experience, and maximum profit from it.

Examples: Gates didn't really want to produce a beautiful, elegant web browser because Netscape was clunky, he just wanted everybody to use MS's browser because the web was the next big thing. IE was and is functional, but little more, and now that they "won", they don't even care enough to update it (try to imagine Apple, or any non-monopolistic company, doing that). Same with Windows on a whole--functional enough to keep competitors at bay, little more. Same with MSN, and everything else they do.

Again, the contrast is that Gates merely wants to control everything so that noone else can muscle in on their territory (monopoly), where Jobs wants control of the artistic experience of computing (hardware, software, and everything in between). Gates doesn't care what you do with it so long as it all runs through his systems and he gets a financial cut, where Steve cares very much what you do with it because it's his artistic vision.
 
wowser said:
Ah! i didn't realise he left and came back with the iMac - i can see why people see him as a saviour


the 3-4 years before jobs came back were pretty sad for apple. way too many models and configs, not enough sales, prices were way too high. the one good thing that came out of this era was the 9600. I loved those towers. they were bigger than the G5 is.
 
look at the fact that jobs' main salary comes from Pixar.. who REVOLUTIONIZED computer animation. as an electronic music producer, i can say that there is no company that producers have more faith in than Apple, they have also revolutionized making music on computers... and no i'm not talking about garage band. Old applications like Opcode Vision.. and the first applications to implement MIDI were released on the Macintosh platform first. Steve is a creator, and people look up to him and in some instances envy him for his creativity.

what do people envy about bill gates? his ability to make billions and billions of dollars. pretty darn shallow if you ask me.
 
i wonder if theres anyone else out there like me, who couldnt care less about either bill gates or steve jobs?
 
dermeister said:
Actually the 1984 macinstosh that we know has nothing to do with Raskin. Steve took over the project in it's EARLY infancy, and while he kept (to his dislike at first) the name Macintosh because everybody was used to it, it is completely his vision. The Macintosh Raskin wanted to make was WAY different... I think he was even against the mouse if my memory serves me right.

Yeah, that sounds about right after reading this:

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.p...&characters=Jef Raskin&sortOrder=Sort by Date
 
Apple //e said:
i wonder if theres anyone else out there like me, who couldnt care less about either bill gates or steve jobs?

Lots. But...

These two have had a HUGE effect on this world.
One, without the Mac we probably would just be starting to discover this whole "GUI" thing. Secondly, when Steve started NeXT, they created the first usable (by normal people) UNIX. One of the best if not the most elegantly designed Object Oriented programming environments (openstep/Cocoa) that was mimicked time and again by taligent, Java, .NET ect. The first web browser, the first web server was designed on NeXT. WebObjects, in 1994 was what .NET aims for today (steve was preaching e-comerce as the webs' killer app while most were trying to figure out what the internet was). The iMac 1 and 2 were ground breaking products etc. Not to mention Pixar...steve creates, bill imitates.

And to those who wonder why he's not more successful have to understand that steve is a lot less pragmatic than bill is (until things get to the wire like they did at NeXT). Bill will sell his brand away (multiple manufactures) to gain control in some form while steve would rather have less market but the product have his only logo on only etc...kind of like sony...well except for Vaio...
 
marketshare...

this got me thinking. is it not possible, that the reason why Apple's computer marketshare is so low, is because the computers do not go broken for a long long time?

well it might be one of the reasons.

so think about it. one guy buys a mac. he uses it for "everything". it works. another guy buys a pc. it gets obsolete in let us say, six months. a new OS comes out. he plays games. the game only works with one OS. he buys another pc because the new bookkeeping program only works with a newer OS. and after another six months...
 
sethypoo said:
To have a mortal "more relevant" to my existence than God would be a sad reality.

I'm an Atheist so the whole j.c./god thing doesn't affect me in the slightest... where as I couldn't do what I do without my Mac... ;)
 
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