The perfect storm - IGZO, DDR4, Maxwell, Broadwell all nearly ready

whitedragon101

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Sep 11, 2008
1,233
253
Is it me or is there a perfect storm brewing. By the end of the year (or before for most of it) DDR4, Maxwell, Broadwell and IGZO could be used in the rMBP.

That would be a pretty epic upgrade :)
 

dmccloud

macrumors 6502a
Sep 7, 2009
991
14
Anchorage, AK
Micron just recently released their roadmap for DDR4, so it will take time for support to be built into systems. Plus, since Broadwell does not support DDR4 at this time, you're looking at another 6-12 months for that to be integrated on Intel's side. Where you may see DDR4 earlier is in mobile devices like the iPhone/iPad, possibly even an ARM-based laptop if Apple goes that route. Elpida (the company that makes the RAM in most Macs) is a Micron subsidiary, so the key to when DDR4 will make its way to the Mac will depend on how Apple and Intel work to adopt it going forward.
 

sixrom

macrumors 6502a
Nov 13, 2013
707
1
Micron just recently released their roadmap for DDR4, so it will take time for support to be built into systems. Plus, since Broadwell does not support DDR4 at this time, you're looking at another 6-12 months for that to be integrated on Intel's side. Where you may see DDR4 earlier is in mobile devices like the iPhone/iPad, possibly even an ARM-based laptop if Apple goes that route. Elpida (the company that makes the RAM in most Macs) is a Micron subsidiary, so the key to when DDR4 will make its way to the Mac will depend on how Apple and Intel work to adopt it going forward.
Based on Microns good track record, and other variables involved, I think your estimate of 6 to 12 months is quite likely. It's all a matter of patience as we wait for this to come together.
 

robE89

macrumors regular
Oct 9, 2011
166
58
ddr4 is just way too pricy atm :). Imo, the best one will be in 2 years, ddr4 matured/maybe a redesign?/better cpu-igpu/dgpu, etc :D
 

Rbk23

macrumors regular
Jul 8, 2014
120
8
I don't get how computers are still using DDR3 when the PS4 has 8 GB of DDR5. Can anyone explain this to me? I'm not understanding.
 

OzyOly

macrumors 6502a
Jun 3, 2009
775
133
Melbourne, AU
I don't get how computers are still using DDR3 when the PS4 has 8 GB of DDR5. Can anyone explain this to me? I'm not understanding.
Because the PS4 will be using the same specs for the next ten years. Sony can buy parts in a much larger bulk than PC vendors. By also investing in their factories, they can bring the manufacturing price of the console down over time.

Remember, most of the revenue for a games console does not come from the hardware, Sony (or Microsoft) can afford to sell the hardware at a loss as long as they continue to make game devs pay through the nose for licensing fees.
 

leman

macrumors G3
Oct 14, 2008
9,968
4,551
I don't get how computers are still using DDR3 when the PS4 has 8 GB of DDR5. Can anyone explain this to me? I'm not understanding.
Because GDDR5 is basically DDR3 optimised for high-bandwidth parallel memory access. That makes it work very well with GPUs, which usually apply the same operations to a large number of elements (pixels, vertices etc.) at the same time. GDDR5 won't be able to play its massive bandwidth advantage with a general-purpose CPU. So while GDDR5 is an interesting choice for a console, it does not make much sense for a general-purpose personal computer.
 

Rbk23

macrumors regular
Jul 8, 2014
120
8
Because GDDR5 is basically DDR3 optimised for high-bandwidth parallel memory access. That makes it work very well with GPUs, which usually apply the same operations to a large number of elements (pixels, vertices etc.) at the same time. GDDR5 won't be able to play its massive bandwidth advantage with a general-purpose CPU. So while GDDR5 is an interesting choice for a console, it does not make much sense for a general-purpose personal computer.
Thanks for the explanation.
 

raptor402

macrumors 6502
Jun 30, 2011
399
2
Skylake will bring DDR4 support to the quadcore SKUs in 2015 (2016?). The 13" rMBPs will have to wait until Cannonlake (2016/2017). By then, we'll hopefully have widespread availability of DDR4 memory.

Raptor
 

poematik13

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2014
727
298
I don't get how computers are still using DDR3 when the PS4 has 8 GB of DDR5. Can anyone explain this to me? I'm not understanding.
-Sony and MS take a loss on hardware (selling what is essentially a small PC with high end-ish parts and a closed OS for a low price) and make it back on game royalties and online services
-its also a matter of scale: when you own order millions and millions of parts to be installed in your product it tends to be a lot cheaper
 

Rbk23

macrumors regular
Jul 8, 2014
120
8
1. Sony is not taking a loss on the PS4. It cost them $381 to make.
If you include the cost of R & D and such then yea, maybe they are taking a loss, but hardware wise they are not.

2. Apple orders tons and tons of parts, I would think they would be able to buy in bulk as much as Sony.
 

poematik13

macrumors 6502a
Jun 5, 2014
727
298
1. Sony is not taking a loss on the PS4. It cost them $381 to make.
If you include the cost of R & D and such then yea, maybe they are taking a loss, but hardware wise they are not.

2. Apple orders tons and tons of parts, I would think they would be able to buy in bulk as much as Sony.
1. of course i was taking into account R&D, and also the many other expenses like employment, tax, etc. its all part of the bigger picture....

2. not as much as sony or MS. how many people have mainstream gaming consoles in their house vs. how many people have macbooks? both in the millions of course, but there are most definitely far more consoles
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2009
1,382
466
i'm hoping IGZO will bring one more level of "retina" where 13" will be based off of the 1440x900 resolution and the 15" will be based off of the 1650x1050 or even hopefully 4K, although I think that's too big a leap for the hardware involved.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,472
1,568
I don't get how computers are still using DDR3 when the PS4 has 8 GB of DDR5. Can anyone explain this to me? I'm not understanding.
PS4 is not using DDR5 RAM, but GDDR5. What does that mean? Its DDR4.

In graphics it was always used differently. GDDR3 was DDR2 in fact, GDDR2 was DDR. Its always DDR(X)+1 = GDDR(X+1) equation ;).
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,472
1,568
Ok...now I am really confused lol :D
GDDR is graphics RAM. PS4 uses it as shared between system CPU and GPU, sort of cache, Memory.

In fact its DDR4. But with different name, and higher frequency than standard Memory.
 

laurihoefs

macrumors 6502a
Mar 1, 2013
792
22
Ok...now I am really confused lol :D
Like leman and koyoot already said, GDDR is a type of DDR memory optimized specifically for graphics use, and has a different numbering scheme from DDR. GDDR5 is not a generation above DDR4, on the contrary, it's derived from DDR3, and like DDR3, has been around since 2007.
 

pragmatous

macrumors 65816
May 23, 2012
1,378
96
Rumor has it that it'll be the haswell refresh due to the broadwell delay with Maxwell GPU.

Edit: still uses DDR3 until Skylake in late 2015

Is it me or is there a perfect storm brewing. By the end of the year (or before for most of it) DDR4, Maxwell, Broadwell and IGZO could be used in the rMBP.

That would be a pretty epic upgrade :)
 

leman

macrumors G3
Oct 14, 2008
9,968
4,551
GDDR is graphics RAM. PS4 uses it as shared between system CPU and GPU, sort of cache, Memory.

In fact its DDR4. But with different name, and higher frequency than standard Memory.
Its DDR3. Before posting, at least check Wikipedia ;) Don't be lazy
 

MrX8503

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,269
1,571
Because the PS4 will be using the same specs for the next ten years. Sony can buy parts in a much larger bulk than PC vendors. By also investing in their factories, they can bring the manufacturing price of the console down over time.

Remember, most of the revenue for a games console does not come from the hardware, Sony (or Microsoft) can afford to sell the hardware at a loss as long as they continue to make game devs pay through the nose for licensing fees.
What? this doesn't make any sense. The PS4 has GDDR5, not DDR5.