iPad Pro The real issue with the iPad lineup this year… Air/Pro are the same functionally

[Kal Madda]

There’s VERY VERY little Apple will announce at WWDC that will be M4 exclusive if at all.

And you know this because you snuck into Apple headquarters for a sneak peak of all the iPadOS 18 features? Or are you just stating your opinion as a fact?

 

[ThailandToo]

If the OS alone pushes the SoC, it is high time to buy a new computer. I guess you mean apps pushing the SoC.

Go back and read what I said. Don’t infer what you think it means. With iPadOS, there’s no point in having an M-series SoC installed in the first place.

 

[Kal Madda]

Go back and read what I said. Don’t infer what you think it means. With iPadOS, there’s no point in having an M-series SoC installed in the first place.

First of all, this is simply not true. There are several apps that greatly benefit from the performance of the M-series SoC. Second of all, if you think iPadOS is currently not good enough, why would you oppose Apple adding better CPUs in the iPad so that heavier process and features can run? So iPadOS can continue to improve? That argument doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

[jonnyb098]

And you know this because you snuck into Apple headquarters for a sneak peak of all the iPadOS 18 features? Or are you just stating your opinion as a fact?

Considering everyone’s been using the same stupid headline for a decade that “apples software needs to catch up with iPad hardware”….”iPad needs Mac OS”. Blah blah blah. Prepare to be disappointed in 3 weeks!

 

[Digitalguy]

Not on all PC hardware. Not according to several sources I read where they said it could be bypassed that way. It was a while ago. But many Windows laptops have only a webcam and no IR equipment, so it stands to reason that since they only have a camera and no other hardware for depth scanning, many models could be bypassed that way.

Again shows you really misunderstood what you read or heard. You CANNOT use a standard webcam for Windows Hello. Microsoft does not authourise 2D scanning. You can only do it if the camera meets the Windows Hello standard, which is based on 3D scanning, just like FaceID. This is not Android.

 

[Kal Madda]

Considering everyone’s been using the same stupid headline for a decade that “apples software needs to catch up with iPad hardware”….”iPad needs Mac OS”. Blah blah blah. Prepare to be disappointed in 3 weeks!

I don’t expect, want, or need macOS on the iPad. What you said is that there would be little to no M4 exclusive features.

 

[Kal Madda]

Again shows you really misunderstood what you read or heard. You CANNOT use a standard webcam for Windows Hello. Microsoft does not authourise 2D scanning. You can only do it if the camera meets the Windows Hello standard, which is based on 3D scanning, just like FaceID. This is not Android.

Like I said, it was a while back that I was reading that, maybe the sources were all wrong. I don’t think that’s the case, but I guess it might be possible. It doesn’t really matter anyways, Apple’s FaceID is definitely harder for hackers to bypass.

 

[jonnyb098]

I don’t expect, want, or need macOS on the iPad. What you said is that there would be little to no M4 exclusive features.

Right ….aside from maybe some AI stuff there won’t be. There’s nothing an M4 can do that the rest of the M series chips can’t. The M1 was such a massive leap forward it’s just now barely starting to show its age 3 years later. The M4 is another one of those bigger leaps. The only exclusive stuff is on iPhones and even that is sometimes artificial. But it’s always involving photos and video. That’s it. It’s the ISP being tied to the iPhone chip for some new photo or video feature. So yeah otherwise nothing else is “chip specific”. Even the hover feature that they claim is chip specific to M2 was available for years as an accessibility option for Apple Pencil. The double tap on the series 9 watch…same thing.

 

[Kal Madda]

Right ….aside from maybe some AI stuff there won’t be. There’s nothing an M4 can do that the rest of the M series chips can’t. The M1 was such a massive leap forward it’s just now barely starting to show its age 3 years later. The M4 is another one of those bigger leaps. The only exclusive stuff is on iPhones and even that is sometimes artificial. But it’s always involving photos and video. That’s it. It’s the ISP being tied to the iPhone chip for some new photo or video feature. So yeah otherwise nothing else is “chip specific”. Even the hover feature that they claim is chip specific to M2 was available for years as an accessibility option for Apple Pencil. The double tap on the series 9 watch…same thing.

“Some AI stuff” would still count as potential M4 exclusive features… Don’t get me wrong, I think most major features will likely be backwards compatible for at least the M1, but I still think there is the possibility that there will be a few M4 exclusive features. Probably several AI based features. And some that probably leverage the tandem OLED display.

 

[Digitalguy]

Like I said, it was a while back that I was reading that, maybe the sources were all wrong. I don’t think that’s the case, but I guess it might be possible. It doesn’t really matter anyways, Apple’s FaceID is definitely harder for hackers to bypass.

They were probably talking about Android or confusing Windows with Android. Windows Hello is very secure and extremely hard to bypass and very far from what you had described, regardless of which is more secure of the 2 (it's like saying that face id is more secure that touch id.... both are plenty secure). And I say this to avoid that other people here, who know little about Windows, read this and then go spread the misinformation around because they have "read sources" online...

 

[Kal Madda]

They were probably talking about Android or confusing Windows with Android. Windows Hello is very secure and extremely hard to bypass and very far from what you had described, regardless of which is more secure of the 2 (it's like saying that face id is more secure that touch id.... both are plenty secure). And I say this to avoid that other people here, who know little about Windows, read this and then go spread the misinformation around because they have "read sources" online...

FaceID is far more secure, because my Apple device cannot be tricked into accepting facial recognition images from an external web cam, while Windows can. According to this article, all they would need would be two photos of your face.

Hackers Got Past Windows Hello by Tricking a Webcam

The security researchers used infrared photos and third-party hardware to best Microsoft’s facial-recognition tech.

www.wired.com

Again, this is kind of irrelevant and unimportant. But many security experts agree that Apple’s FaceID is more secure than Windows Hello.

 

[Digitalguy]

FaceID is far more secure, because my Apple device cannot be tricked into accepting facial recognition images from an external web cam, while Windows can. According to this article, all they would need would be two photos of your face.

Hackers Got Past Windows Hello by Tricking a Webcam

The security researchers used infrared photos and third-party hardware to best Microsoft’s facial-recognition tech.

www.wired.com

Again, this is kind of irrelevant and unimportant. But many security experts agree that Apple’s FaceID is more secure than Windows Hello.

This was an old vulnerability that was quickly patched by Microsoft, where some hackers had phisically compromised some external webcams. This is no longer possible after the patch.
Again "many security experts" is just you saying that with no proof. Regardless of whether that's the case, Windows Hello cannot be tricked by a photo and the fact that at some point there was a vulnerability doesn't mean it's not secure. There have been tons of vulnerabilities in every OS, including Apple's ones, and they are regularly patched by security updates.

 

[mjtardiff]

Do the iPad Pros (M4) have any functional advantage over the iPad Airs (M2) or even the last two iPad Pro Models (M2/M1) - meaning are there tasks you can do on an iPad Pro that you cannot do on an iPad Air? We know that the iPad Pros don’t add any new camera tech, no new screen functionality (always on), no new ports, no new specific OS functionality. The new Pencil Pro works on both the iPad Pros and iPad Airs. As someone who really likes iPadOs and the iPad as a platform in the current state (and I am not a proponent of adding MacOs to the IPad), I am struggling to see what an iPad Pro can do over a new iPad Air (the ”regular” iPad can’t do the same in terms of multitasking and camera and such, so this is really focused on Air vs Pro). I know the iPad Pro is just a nicer piece of kit, but I am struck at how there are not even battery or camera advantages for the iPad Pro this time around

Thunderbolt 4 and a super-fabulous screen. Faster chip, but it’s unlikely most people will use that speed.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

This was an old vulnerability that was quickly patched by Microsoft, where some hackers had phisically compromised some external webcams. This is no longer possible after the patch.
Again "many security experts" is just you saying that with no proof. Regardless of whether that's the case, Windows Hello cannot be tricked by a photo and the fact that at some point there was a vulnerability doesn't mean it's not secure. There have been tons of vulnerabilities in every OS, including Apple's ones, and they are regularly patched by security updates.

I agree, you could tell that poster did not read the article they linked.

Funny enough, that story makes a good argument in favor of parts pairing. At least as far as biometric sensors are concerned.

 

[Kal Madda]

This was an old vulnerability that was quickly patched by Microsoft, where some hackers had phisically compromised some external webcams. This is no longer possible after the patch.
Again "many security experts" is just you saying that with no proof. Regardless of whether that's the case, Windows Hello cannot be tricked by a photo and the fact that at some point there was a vulnerability doesn't mean it's not secure. There have been tons of vulnerabilities in every OS, including Apple's ones, and they are regularly patched by security updates.

And? It was a vulnerability. And the fact that many security experts agree that FaceID is more secure is well documented, it’s not me “just saying that”. You can look it up. I think you’re being overly pedantic about something that’s pretty widely agreed on.

 

[Digitalguy]

And? It was a vulnerability. And the fact that many security experts agree that FaceID is more secure is well documented, it’s not me “just saying that”. You can look it up. I think you’re being overly pedantic about something that’s pretty widely agreed on.

No I was just pointing out a big piece of misinformation in your original post. I am not even arguing which system is more sucure, just saying that Windows Hello is pretty secure and that what you said was far from accurate (that Windows Hello can use a standard webcam and can be bypased by photos). And by the way vunerabilities are patched regularly on iPad too.

 

[Kal Madda]

No I was just pointing out a big piece of misinformation in your original post. I am not even arguing which system is more sucure, just saying that Windows Hello is pretty secure and that what you said was far from accurate (that Windows Hello can use a standard webcam and can be bypased by photos). And by the way vunerabilities are patched regularly on iPad too.

And I clarified in my responses to you that I had read about it a while ago and could be wrong. But you keep accusing me of “spreading misinformation”, which comes off as rude and insulting. And the vulnerabilities patched on iPad are mostly to do with web-based attacks or so on, not major holes in FaceID functionality. And Windows Hello doesn’t only use webcams, it also uses fingerprint scanners which can be bypassed as well.

Windows Hello Fingerprint Authentication Bypassed on Popular Laptops

Researchers have tested the fingerprint sensors used for Windows Hello on three popular laptops and managed to bypass them.

www.securityweek.com

Again, this was a mostly unimportant thing, but you keep accusing me of “spreading misinformation” and other such accusatory language.

 

[rui no onna]

Like I said, it was a while back that I was reading that, maybe the sources were all wrong. I don’t think that’s the case, but I guess it might be possible.

When I buy ThinkPads, I noticed they don’t support Windows Hello if there’s no IR.

 

[Digitalguy]

And I clarified in my responses to you that I had read about it a while ago and could be wrong. But you keep accusing me of “spreading misinformation”, which comes off as rude and insulting. And the vulnerabilities patched on iPad are mostly to do with web-based attacks or so on, not major holes in FaceID functionality. And Windows Hello doesn’t only use webcams, it also uses fingerprint scanners which can be bypassed as well.

Windows Hello Fingerprint Authentication Bypassed on Popular Laptops

Researchers have tested the fingerprint sensors used for Windows Hello on three popular laptops and managed to bypass them.

www.securityweek.com

Again, this was a mostly unimportant thing, but you keep accusing me of “spreading misinformation” and other such accusatory language.

I re-read my posts and at not point I accused you of "spreading misinformation". The only time I used this expression was when I said "And I say this to avoid that other people here, who know little about Windows, read this and then go spread the misinformation around because they have "read sources" online..."
Someone can say something wrong in good faith, but that's still misinformation. And in this case it was pretty big. Problem is that you seeem not to have liked the fact that I pointed that out. And started deviating the discussion on the fact that FaceID is more secure than Windows Hello, which was never my point. My point was that both are very secure and explaining how it works, which is (very) different from what you initially described. If you read what I said there was nothing rude or insulting in my words. If it is the case, I am sure moderators will do their work and delete my posts.

 

[satchmo]

I was surprised they didn’t shave a few millimetres off the bezel of the iPad Pro.

That would follow how they differentiate the look with iPhones.

But I suspect it has to do with the size of the FaceTime camera. Slimmer bezels would force the iPad Pro to have a notch.

 

[profdraper]

Considering everyone’s been using the same stupid headline for a decade that “apples software needs to catch up with iPad hardware”….”iPad needs Mac OS”. Blah blah blah. Prepare to be disappointed in 3 weeks!

I'm no Apple fanboy by any means, but ...
I find the iPad Pro M4 an unusual product at this point in time and without some major iOS revamp, the product is really going out on a limb. Way overpowered, new AI and right now, is really the most advanced product that Apple has made at this point in time. Sitting there all by itself for now. A very odd move unless iOS 18 really is *a thing*.

We'll see. Wouldn't be the first time that Apple overpromises, over-prices & gets carried away with its own 'magical' hysteria, but this time I am actually expecting more.

 

[Kal Madda]

I re-read my posts and at not point I accused you of "spreading misinformation". The only time I used this expression was when I said "And I say this to avoid that other people here, who know little about Windows, read this and then go spread the misinformation around because they have "read sources" online..."
Someone can say something wrong in good faith, but that's still misinformation. And in this case it was pretty big. Problem is that you seeem not to have liked the fact that I pointed that out. And started deviating the discussion on the fact that FaceID is more secure than Windows Hello, which was never my point. My point was that both are very secure and explaining how it works, which is (very) different from what you initially described. If you read what I said there was nothing rude or insulting in my words. If it is the case, I am sure moderators will do their work and delete my posts.

Sorry if I mistook your motives. To me, it came across that way. Re-reading through the discussion, I guess it looks like there was misunderstanding. I was distracted with other things as well, so that may have contributed to it. I do know a bit about Windows, but I haven’t used Windows as my primary OS for many years, so I don’t have personal experience with Hello. I’ve just read about it, and I’ve heard many, many times from security experts that FaceID is more secure.

I wasn’t upset because you pointed out something I was wrong about, I was upset because I though you were saying I was spreading misinformation and that I didn’t know anything about Windows, even though I do, I just don’t use it as my primary OS. 🙂👍🏻

 

[Melbourne Park]

With iPadOS, nothing can ever push the M-series SoC to any limit. It’s the biggest joke about Apple. Tim Cook is so afraid of cannibalizing the Mac, which Steve was never afraid of!

I would only use an iPad Pro if it ran Mac apps. And that’s fine for AAPL as I would upgrade more often and they’re surely making more money per device than selling M3 MBAs. You add up everything you need and you can spend $3000 for an iPad Pro.

There's another issue too. It costs developers more to port their software to IOS, and still keep it the same as it is on a Mac (or Windows). A simple example are the Office apps - Word, Excel etc. Those are mostly quite different on IOS, and inferior as well. But it costs more for porting ...

And if Mac Apps could look the same and be as effective on IOS, how many Windows users would buy an iPad? I reckon a lot of them ...

 

[Melbourne Park]

... My point was that both are very secure and explaining how it works, which is (very) different from what you initially described. If you read what I said there was nothing rude or insulting in my words. ...

I started this by saying my wife's 6 year old HP Elitebook x360 has face recognition. I posted because people here were excited by the addition of facial recognition. I did not mention that her Elitebook also has finger print recognition. The facts are that Apple has had face recognition in phones for some time. But only now have iPads. And the notebooks still lack facial recognition. I just wonder what goes on with Apple keeping up with basic user friendly tools across all their hardware?

And the reason I have been looking at the new iPad Pro, is because my wife uses her 10.5 iPad Pro at least 90 minutes a day, browsing the web. But its battery is shot. And Apple have said its battery is OK, they blame the software. And they admitted, that Apple wants a user like my wife, to buy a new iPad Pro, so they refuse to charge a replacement fee for the battery.

While people here say the OS will be supported for many years, I doubt the battery will be supported by Apple for as long. Because they are not supporting my wife's 10.5' iPad (bought new from Apple in 2018 I think). I also think the lack of battery capacity upgrades is not due to packaging benefits. I think it's because Apple wants iPads batteries to wear out. Ultimately the best thing about the iPad is its portability. And its worst feature is its battery.

 

[iPadified]

Go back and read what I said. Don’t infer what you think it means. With iPadOS, there’s no point in having an M-series SoC installed in the first place.

I am very tired of people not understanding the difference between an operating systems, GUI overlaying said OS and apps. So be more precise next time.

I completely disagree, there are iPad apps out there that use Mx chips even if you do not use them. I think a touch first device is more troublesome to use if lagging so a large performance overhead is preferable.

What do you propose to have instead in iPads? An A14X which would essentially be the same as the M1? Perhaps the A17 pro would cut it for larger screen iPads.