The real loser here is Microsoft

jamdr

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 20, 2003
660
0
Bay Area
Some people are saying that Apple's switch to Intel is admitting defeat, but that really isn't the case. Apple was never competing with Intel, IBM and Motorola were. So really, it is IBM that has lost, not Apple. Apple's competitor is M$ and this move must really have Bill Gates' panties up in a bunch. This will make Apple's portable line in particular even more competitive with machines running Windows, and the only direction Apple's marketshare is going to go now is up. I'm not saying I'm entirely happy with the switch, but it is no doubt the best move for Apple if they want to continue to increase market share.
 

killuminati

macrumors 68020
Dec 6, 2004
2,405
0
Hoef said:
Yeah these are the first signs that Apple really is a "software" company and it will phase out computer hardware eventually
I sure as hell hope not! Half of the reason I buy macs is because of their design! I would be disgusted if new macs shipped in beige pc boxes.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,915
1,466
Palookaville
As much as I like to think about Bill Gates getting the power-wedgie he richly deserves, I don't think this move on Apple's part is going to do it -- unless the new Mactel computers sell huge and cut into Microsoft's market share. Microsoft is always going to have more influence over at Intel and so are the big PC OEMs. Apple might be the darlings at Intel now (look what followed me home -- can I keep it?), but just wait a year or so. Apple will be fighting for attention at Intel just like they fought for attention at IBM -- a lot, with little success.
 

cgratti

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2004
782
0
Central Pennsylvania, USA
killuminati said:
I sure as hell hope not! Half of the reason I buy macs is because of their design! I would be disgusted if new macs shipped in beige pc boxes.
PCs dont have to be shipped in beige boxes either. You can really mod PCs up with some kick ass boxes. Just hope the stabiltiy of macs arent compromised.
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
1,657
1
Maryland
I have to give credit to Apple of course, but the PC case market has largely become diversified in the last 7-10 years. From ultra ugly 486 truly "beige" cases, to the clean designs of early Coolermaster and Lian Li boxes.

However, if you have been paying attention at all, casemakers have caved in and started producing "riced" up cases in the last 2 years. Lian Li's G5 imitation for one is a huge black eye. Thermaltake's blatant copy of Coolermasters superior design. And of course, the plainly outright ugly trash from various white box OEMs. AMD or Intel alike, they think people will buy trash.

Unfortunately, there are enough 10-15 year olds who would pester their parents to buy them a bright red, metallic looking kludge that calls itself a case.
 

Ensoniq

macrumors regular
Jul 16, 2002
131
1
Bronx, NY
The switch to Intel could simultaneously help and hurt Microsoft.

It will hurt Microsoft every time a customer switches to the Mac from the Wintel world now that the processor speed can no longer be used as an excuse.

It will hurt Microsoft every time a new customer falls in love with OS X and begins to convince other people they should switch off Windows too.

It will hurt Microsoft every time the "super PC geeks" and "Intel lovers" who already hate Windows and run Linux or Unix instead decide they can at least give Apple a serious look now that Intel Inside is an Apple reality.

It will help Microsoft every time someone mistakenly assumes (as many here and other places already have) that if both Apple and PC vendors use Intel chips, there really is no reason to buy the "more expensive" Apple product. (Though most Mac users already know that is not true, as a PC running OS X will NEVER be the same as a Macintosh running OS X.)

It will help Microsoft if the next version of Virtual PC runs Windows on the Intel-based Macs at nearly full speed of the equivalent PC-only hardware. (There will of course be SOME overhead running under OS X that wouldn't exist on a stand-alone Windows machine, but it will blow away today's Virtual PC performance.)

Whether it be the Intel-based Virtual PC described above, or WINE, or an Apple-built "Windows compatibility environment" through the Transitive/Rosetta technology, running Windows on your Mac at nearly full speed WILL generate some sales of Microsoft Windows which is all Bill Gates wants. He couldn't care less if Windows is running on a Dell or a Mac...he makes the same money selling to either market. It makes no sense for him to be against Windows running on the Mac. It's OS X on any ol' Intel PC that he fears.

I guess time will tell...
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,366
119
Los Angeles
Hoef said:
Yeah these are the first signs that Apple really is a "software" company and it will phase out computer hardware eventually
How do you figure? Mac software will still only run a Mac. And the only company that makes Macs is Apple. And one of the most compelling reasons to buy a Mac is generally better stability and functionality due to Apple's control of both the hardware and the software.

Apple making a big step to improve their future hardware (attempting to avoid another G4 type stagnation, IMO) doesn't really strike me as the actions of a company that is trying to get out of the hardware business.


Lethal
 

AliensAreFuzzy

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2004
1,561
0
Madison, WI
killuminati said:
I sure as hell hope not! Half of the reason I buy macs is because of their design! I would be disgusted if new macs shipped in beige pc boxes.
In all fairness, they're not beige anymore. They're uglier :p
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,915
1,466
Palookaville
Ensoniq said:
The switch to Intel could simultaneously help and hurt Microsoft.

It will hurt Microsoft every time a customer switches to the Mac from the Wintel world now that the processor speed can no longer be used as an excuse.
Possibly, assuming OSX performs well on Intel hardware compared to Windows. Microsoft has a poor history, but also a huge head-start.

Ensoniq said:
It will hurt Microsoft every time the "super PC geeks" and "Intel lovers" who already hate Windows and run Linux or Unix instead decide they can at least give Apple a serious look now that Intel Inside is an Apple reality.
I haven't run into many "Intel lovers," but I do know quite a few who love to home brew their PCs, and the inability to do so on the Mac platform is one of the reasons they despise the Mac. Since OSX is still not going to run on generic PC hardware (save some clever hack), no change here.

Ensoniq said:
It will help Microsoft every time someone mistakenly assumes (as many here and other places already have) that if both Apple and PC vendors use Intel chips, there really is no reason to buy the "more expensive" Apple product. (Though most Mac users already know that is not true, as a PC running OS X will NEVER be the same as a Macintosh running OS X.)
Not sure what you mean here exactly. The Mac will still be the Mac and Windows will still be windows.

Ensoniq said:
It will help Microsoft if the next version of Virtual PC runs Windows on the Intel-based Macs at nearly full speed of the equivalent PC-only hardware. (There will of course be SOME overhead running under OS X that wouldn't exist on a stand-alone Windows machine, but it will blow away today's Virtual PC performance.)

Whether it be the Intel-based Virtual PC described above, or WINE, or an Apple-built "Windows compatibility environment" through the Transitive/Rosetta technology, running Windows on your Mac at nearly full speed WILL generate some sales of Microsoft Windows which is all Bill Gates wants. He couldn't care less if Windows is running on a Dell or a Mac...he makes the same money selling to either market. It makes no sense for him to be against Windows running on the Mac. It's OS X on any ol' Intel PC that he fears.

I guess time will tell...
Most likely, the Mactels will be able to dual-boot Windows, so it's probably the end of the line for VirtualPC and any performance penalty for running Windows on Mac hardware. WINE presents some interesting possibilities if it can enable native Windows software to run in OSX in the same way it allows native Windows software to run on Linux.
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
18,691
1,186
New Zealand
IJ Reilly said:
Most likely, the Mactels will be able to dual-boot Windows, so it's probably the end of the line for VirtualPC
Microsoft announced that they will be making an Intel (universal) version of Virtual PC. However, it'll probably be up to Microsoft's usual standard and still be really slow :rolleyes:
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
Hoef said:
Yeah these are the first signs that Apple really is a "software" company and it will phase out computer hardware eventually
And I think the opposite, that Apple is getting back into the innovation business.

Motorola/IBM have sucked an inordinate amount of time and cash out of Apple, that could have been used for the next big thing.

This is also good news for MicroSoft, since an "innovative company" is going to be playing in their sandbox and whipping the race slugs (Dell, Gateway, etc.) into adopting the more feature filled chipsets rotting in the bins.

Dells R&D budget dwarfs Apple's but they don't have Steve Jobs telling them where they should be heading, Steve is the one and only reason Apple was able to shave so many dollars out of that R&D budget.

Plus, Apple spanking MS on the innovation front won't last too long either. Bill is probably going to sit up and take notice.

Those two battling is basically good news for everyone...
 

macer1

macrumors newbie
Jan 9, 2004
23
0
saskatoon
DOnt be a crack baby. intel in mac will come out the same time as what OS from Micro$oft.....


when longhorn falls on its face faster then ME people will be looking for a OS that does everything they need and they can stand to work with.


this picks up where linux fell short. Mac OSX on intel is Bill Gates worst dream.


and wait till HP comes calling for the OS, first Ipod next the OS.

its all falling into place,the demise of MS.
 

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,650
28
USA
Sun Baked said:
...

Dells R&D budget dwarfs Apple's but they don't have Steve Jobs telling them where they should be heading, Steve is the one and only reason Apple was able to shave so many dollars out of that R&D budget.

...
The Dell R&D budget is devoted primarily to improving its supply lines and distribution channels. Apple's R&D budget is devoted primarily to writing better software and building better hardware.
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,366
119
Los Angeles
Hoef said:
Ohh so in the future we could potentially run windows on a mac but not mac OS on a PC.
You do a great job of stating the known but a not so great job of elaborating on your POV.

Again, how is Apple making a dramatic move to improve their future hardware a sign they are moving AWAY from being a hardware company? If Apple licensed OS X to other computer manufacturers you'd have a point. But they aren't.


Lethal
 

Kato C.

macrumors member
Feb 7, 2005
45
0
Great White North
Hoef said:
Yeah these are the first signs that Apple really is a "software" company and it will phase out computer hardware eventually
Just like Apple is becoming a music company so it's going to phase out iPods eventually.