The Real Reason There is No New Mini

EightyTwenty

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 11, 2015
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Very simple. Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the retina iMac.

Any updated mini will allow for 4k @ 60hz because of Intel's Skylake CPUs and Apple doesn't want people buying a Mac Mini + 4k display at literally HALF the price of the 4K iMac.

I truly believe this is the bottom line.
 
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FrancoisC

macrumors 6502a
Jan 27, 2009
524
265
Montreal, Qc
Then there are people like me, who will not buy an iMac because I don't want to pay for a new monitor everytime I change my computer. So, instead of cannibalizing the sale of an iMac, they lose a sale completely.

If you don't cannibalize yourself as a company, others will do it for you.

Anyway, my 2012 quad-core i7 still run perfectly fine for me; upgraded with 16GB, 1TB SSD and 2TB HDD. Not a great GPU in it granted; but since I didn't get this machine to game it's of no consequences.

Still get higher Geekbench/real life perfomance than the dual-core that come out lately.
 

ardchoille50

macrumors 68020
Feb 6, 2014
2,142
1,216
Then there are people like me, who will not buy an iMac because I don't want to pay for a new monitor everytime I change my computer. So, instead of cannibalizing the sale of an iMac, they lose a sale completely.

If you don't cannibalize yourself as a company, others will do it for you.

Anyway, my 2012 quad-core i7 still run perfectly fine for me; upgraded with 16GB, 1TB SSD and 2TB HDD. Not a great GPU in it granted; but since I didn't get this machine to game it's of no consequences.

Still get higher Geekbench/real life perfomance than the dual-core that come out lately.
Good points.

There are also people like me.. like to throw my Mac mini into a backpack to take to a friend's house for the day and connect it to their television. I wouldn't want to have to do that with an iMac.
 

jpietrzak8

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2010
1,053
6,100
Dayton, Ohio
There's no mystery why the mini is wallowing in low spec limbo. That's where it belongs.
Yup! Apple wants to leave the high-spec SFF market to other companies, like Intel, Lenovo, or HP. After all, there's no reason why Apple has to take all the profits in this market; they might as well leave some market sectors wide open for their competitors.
 

Andres Cantu

macrumors 68030
May 31, 2015
2,927
5,499
Rio Grande Valley in South Texas
Very simple. Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the retina iMac.

Any updated mini will allow for 4k @ 60hz because of Intel's Skylake CPUs and Apple doesn't want people buying a Mac Mini + 4k display at literally HALF the price of the 4K iMac.

I truly believe this is the bottom line.
There is a simple solution for that: make a new design to justify a price hike (crazy, I know), eliminate the base-model Mac mini, and only sell the more expensive ones. Apple isn't afraid of cannibalizing itself, they've said so before. But they'll have to eventually, they have to increase Mac sales somehow.
 
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Bart Kela

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There is a simple solution for that: make a new design to justify a price hike (crazy, I know), eliminate the base-model Mac mini, and only sell the more expensive ones. Apple isn't afraid of cannibalizing itself, they've said so before. But they'll have to eventually, they have to increase Mac sales somehow.
That's unlikely given that the entire PC market has been contracting for some time. Basically all manufacturers are selling fewer computers than they did a few years ago.

Apple's Mac sales decline is less than its competitors, consequently their industry marketshare percentage has increased over time. Of course, Apple's margins are hefty, so they are raking in proportionally more of the industry profits than their marketshare percent. (And if I recall correctly, Apple owns practically the entire $1000+ PC market.)

In other words, the world is less interested in buying computers these days. It's not like consumers are fleeing Apple for the competition since those other manufacturers are seeing even greater sales declines than Apple.

I still think there's a business case for Apple to continue with new models of the Mac mini.

That said, IBM eventually got out of the scale business. Heck, IBM invented the mass-market PC and they quit that business years ago too.

When Apple will decide to abandon the Mac mini product line no one here knows but it will not not go on forever and ever.
 
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MysticCow

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May 27, 2013
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Apple has to figure out a way to get the power, keyboard, monitor, and mouse controls using just one USB.
 
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ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,516
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The real reason is that they don't care about Macs any more.

Interviews with people familiar with Apple's inner workings reveal that the Mac is getting far less attention than it once did. They say the Mac team has lost clout with the famed industrial design group led by Jony Ive and the company's software team. They also describe a lack of clear direction from senior management, departures of key people working on Mac hardware and technical challenges that have delayed the roll-out of new computers.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-20/how-apple-alienated-mac-loyalists
 

dogslobber

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2014
3,872
5,862
Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
Then there are people like me, who will not buy an iMac because I don't want to pay for a new monitor everytime I change my computer. So, instead of cannibalizing the sale of an iMac, they lose a sale completely.

If you don't cannibalize yourself as a company, others will do it for you.

Anyway, my 2012 quad-core i7 still run perfectly fine for me; upgraded with 16GB, 1TB SSD and 2TB HDD. Not a great GPU in it granted; but since I didn't get this machine to game it's of no consequences.

Still get higher Geekbench/real life perfomance than the dual-core that come out lately.
I think for myself that the reason I'd buy a Mac in the past was the upgrade potential. A 2011 iMac is great for upgrading the base model. Now Apple forces you to buy upgrades at purchase time and charges a disgusting premium.

The last mac I bought was a 2014 MBP but right now with the dongle fiasco I simply don't think I'd buy another. I'll make the current machines last as long as possible.
 
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MacStu09

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2009
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That's unlikely given that the entire PC market has been contracting for some time. Basically all manufacturers are selling fewer computers than they did a few years ago.

Apple's Mac sales decline is less than its competitors, consequently their industry marketshare percentage has increased over time. Of course, Apple's margins are hefty, so they are raking in proportionally more of the industry profits than their marketshare percent. (And if I recall correctly, Apple owns practically the entire $1000+ PC market.)

In other words, the world is less interested in buying computers these days. It's not like consumers are fleeing Apple for the competition since those other manufacturers are seeing even greater sales declines than Apple.

I still think there's a business case for Apple to continue with new models of the Mac mini.

That said, IBM eventually got out of the scale business. Heck, IBM invented the mass-market PC and they quit that business years ago too.

When Apple will decide to abandon the Mac mini product line no one here knows but it will not not go on forever and ever.
Just to set the record straight, the total PC market is in decline, but the past year over year Q4 shipments were actually up by all the big players. And Apple's sales are not "less" in decline than their competitors when comparing, for example, the last 2 years. Apple is, in fact, one of the MOST in decline out of the big hitters. And Apple has hefty margins, but their margins don't make up for the difference in qty. of shipments; (Apple ~4.9 million units, Lenovo ~14 million units).

Apple is technically losing marketshare to the big competitors, but to be fair, it's more-so that the little competitors are dropping like flies, giving all of the big competitors a greater marketshare. Apple is simply gaining the least of it. Just for the record:

Shipments:
Q3 2014 - Q3 2016
Dell = 0% (no change)
HP = -1% (down 1%)
Lenovo = -7% (down 7%)
Apple = -10% (down 10%)

Marketshare
Q4 2015 - Q4 2016
Apple = +2.4% ( ~130,000 more sales)
Lenovo = +1.6% (~240,000 more sales)
Dell = +5.4% (~548,000 more sales)
HP = +4.3% (~604,000 more sales)
 
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cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,586
1,884
Very simple. Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the retina iMac.

Any updated mini will allow for 4k @ 60hz because of Intel's Skylake CPUs and Apple doesn't want people buying a Mac Mini + 4k display at literally HALF the price of the 4K iMac.

I truly believe this is the bottom line.
I agree and disagree, I would have agreed with you more this time last year. Two things...

First, a lot of the iMac crowd is also not buying because they are waiting for an update.

Secondly, half of a 4k iMac is $550 (US). Even if you could pull that off its going to be second hand and not cannibalizing Apple because they already sold it and no longer benefit from further sales (leaving iTunes sales, Music, iCloud, etc aside). And if you are ok with second hand there then you'd likely buy an iMac that way too, again not benefiting Apple.

However I do feel that is the reason the Mini isn't more powerful. Its the reason I'm using an iMac and not a Mac Mini. And if they do release a quad core Mini I'll buy it, if not I'll be getting a 5k iMac. So as much as it pains me to say it, its an effective strategy.
 
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EightyTwenty

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Mar 11, 2015
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I agree and disagree, I would have agreed with you more this time last year. Two things...

First, a lot of the iMac crowd is also not buying because they are waiting for an update.

Secondly, half of a 4k iMac is $550 (US). Even if you could pull that off its going to be second hand and not cannibalizing Apple because they already sold it and no longer benefit from further sales (leaving iTunes sales, Music, iCloud, etc aside). And if you are ok with second hand there then you'd likely buy an iMac that way too, again not benefiting Apple.

However I do feel that is the reason the Mini isn't more powerful. Its the reason I'm using an iMac and not a Mac Mini. And if they do release a quad core Mini I'll buy it, if not I'll be getting a 5k iMac. So as much as it pains me to say it, its an effective strategy.
Had no idea it was so cheap in the US. Retina iMac is $1800 in Canada. Mini is only $599. So you could easily get a mini and 4K display for roughly half the price in an iMac. Now imagine if you could also upgrade the ram like the 2012 mini? Nobody would buy an iMac again.

Speaking of which, it's now obvious why they soldered the ram - also to protect the iMac.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,586
1,884
Had no idea it was so cheap in the US. Retina iMac is $1800 in Canada. Mini is only $599. So you could easily get a mini and 4K display for roughly half the price in an iMac. Now imagine if you could also upgrade the ram like the 2012 mini? Nobody would buy an iMac again.

Speaking of which, it's now obvious why they soldered the ram - also to protect the iMac.
Haha I agree and disagree again...sorry to be that guy. Again for 2 reasons.

One, the ram in the 4k iMac is soldered.

Two, they soldered RAM to save cost and to force to you buy more from them versus installing your own.

I don't think soldered RAM has anything to do with the Mini.
 

Septembersrain

Contributor
Dec 14, 2013
3,837
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Texas
It makes me sad because I'll admit I'm not affluent enough to buy most of the Apple computers on the market. I was hoping they'd consider releasing a new Mac Mini to appeal to casual/light users who just can't afford over 1k+.

I really want to experience a Mac. I do. With what I use my 5 year old Windows laptop for, it wouldn't need the best specs. I just want to learn the OS.

I've experienced iOS, Android, Windows mobile, BlackBerry OS10, Symbian, Tizen, Web OS, and I've run Windows, Linux (Wine and Ubuntu). I'm just missing the Mac OS experience.

Edit: I'd consider a Hackintosh or even an older computer I could hardware swap. It just seems hard to find affordable options without me taking a big gamble.
 
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cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,586
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It makes me sad because I'll admit I'm not affluent enough to buy most of the Apple computers on the market. I was hoping they'd consider releasing a new Mac Mini to appeal to casual/light users who just can't afford over 1k+.

I really want to experience a Mac. I do. With what I use my 5 year old Windows laptop for, it wouldn't need the best specs. I just want to learn the OS.

I've experienced iOS, Android, Windows mobile, BlackBerry OS10, Symbian, Tizen, Web OS, and I've run Windows, Linux (Wine and Ubuntu). I'm just missing the Mac OS experience.
Get a used Mini then. There really isn't anything wrong with them for a light user. For me its very easy to justify the cost because of the OS. OR you might be able to repurpose one of your windows machines into a hackintosh.

I need quad core (or more) for video encoding which keeps me using iMacs. But most people don't actually need that. Matter of fact I can not tell a difference in performance while doing things on my iMac while a video is encoding for hours on end with 100% CPU usage in the background. Surely a dual core would be faster than that.
 
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MH01

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Feb 11, 2008
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The new mac mini is almost certainly coming.
So is the Mac Pro.....which will be gimped more? I'd like to say I'm being sarcastic , but apple is actually on purpose holding back performance on these machines.

I would not be suprised that the new mini is some fashion accessory taking the form factor of the Apple TV box.
 

Cape Dave

macrumors 68000
Nov 16, 2012
1,962
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So is the Mac Pro.....which will be gimped more? I'd like to say I'm being sarcastic , but apple is actually on purpose holding back performance on these machines.

I would not be suprised that the new mini is some fashion accessory taking the form factor of the Apple TV box.
Or... even more likely, somehow relegated to a dongle that hangs off the Apple Watch. I mean, it is hard to mention fashion without mentioning the mighty Apple Watch!
 

Daniel Reed

macrumors 6502
Sep 9, 2016
278
283
San Francisco
Very simple. Apple doesn't want to cannibalize sales of the retina iMac.

Any updated mini will allow for 4k @ 60hz because of Intel's Skylake CPUs and Apple doesn't want people buying a Mac Mini + 4k display at literally HALF the price of the 4K iMac.

I truly believe this is the bottom line.
Yes; however,
Apple wants to release products granting the company $ for most things one wishes to connect to it or upgrade.

Profit revenue ratios based on R&D + build cost divided by margin sales curves are very important to stockholders.

This is similar in many industries.
A $5 million movie grossing 20 million is more favorable then one costing 100 million grossing 200 million.

Why? The ratio.

The 5 million movie made 4 times over budget, yeat the 100 million movie only doubled it.


Thus, the MM hasn't been updated because it doesn't fit into the new Apple product/company culture.
Especially considering the failure of project Titan, ROI is very important to Tim & the Exe Gang

Only Macs w/ builtin displays that are non-upgradable (or extremely limited) will be updated moving forward.
 
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ziggy29

macrumors 6502
Oct 29, 2014
439
252
Oregon North Coast
Thus, the MM hasn't been updated because it doesn't fit into the new Apple product/company culture.
Apparently this is true of any "headless" desktop. The lack of a headless midrange Mac has been a lament for over a decade, pretty much ever since the switch to Intel. Even the Pro hasn't seen any updates in a long time.

As said before in this thread, I won't pay for a new display every time I upgrade (iMac). So if the only options are the Mini (not an option for a gamer) or a $3000+ Pro, I guess I'm part of a market Apple is not interested in keeping.
 

sleconte

macrumors member
Oct 26, 2016
56
75
Thailand
Can someone tape this mock up I made to Tim Cook's forehead? I've owned every generation of mini since they were first released - would really like Apple to show some love!

OMG if I could only get a pink Mini, all other weaknesses and the outrageous price tag would be forgiven
HA HA HA HA.
Ok, the yellow looks cool.
 
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