The Unanswered Question Remains So .... :confused:

Discussion in 'Buying Tips and Advice' started by BruceEBonus, Nov 13, 2007.

  1. BruceEBonus macrumors 6502a

    BruceEBonus

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    #1
    Right. Ok. I'll try again. Will YOU dare to `speculate back' at this unspoken of questions?. Ahem. Its simple. But no one seems to be able to give a straight answer.To this:
    Has anyone actually heard of or received a iMac that has Leopard preinstalled yet?.
    Im from the UK and the bloke on the initial order line told me I'd have a preinstalled iMac if I ordered on the day of Leopard's release.
    Now I was under pressure to get it ordered (with an iPod) simultaneously in order to take advantage of the (then) current Back To School Apple offer of a £100 rebate - if placed before the 30th October.
    Now you might think (wrongly) that I am being a tad picky and pedantic for wanting such a preinstalled machine - after all its only a matter of bunging in a Drop In Disc innit?. Well yes!.
    But wouldnt be so much better to have the nice Leopard screen on the outer box when you come to sell it in the future instead of what will be the rather passé Tiger one that will no doubt adorn mine when it comes on the 17th from the factory in Timbuctoo!.
    So my quandary is this. I know that the likelihood of a Leopard machine arriving is about as likely as Steve Jobs becoming a media gossip - but reading the forums I have yet to see any preinstalled reports to date and my plan originally was to send the machine back unopened for `another' until the promised version arrives.
    BUT if it seems as if this is pretty much negligible for another month or so - then I'll just have to keep it and look forward to the £100 rebate to compensate for that.
    However I think its a tad naughty for Apple to `laze it up' and send out old Tiger machines cos they cant be arsed to `redo' and update the shebang themselves .. they mustve known about the release date months ahead - and for the Sales guys to lie to get more commission when there's no way they could have known or even know now that Leopard Installed iMacs are being dispatched.
    Had it not been for the tasty Student rebate thingy - Idve simply waited .. and I naively thought that by going via Telesales/Online that Id have more chance to get such a version - but no. Its seems not.
    So WHEN wil lthese fabled versions with the pretty purple screen boxed be getting out there?. Even the AppleStore Web Pages are misrepresenting this - and please ... dont say "Whats the big deal, Bro'. You just upgrade via the Drop In Disc" .. for that would be a very tedious experience.
    What Im saying is: The webpage says its here .. the reality says not. Do I return the box unopened and demand what I was promised .. or will the next one be equally likely to show a Tiger imac on the outer?. For the rest of 2007?.
    I think we should be told!.;)
    I'll just stand here and wait for you all to get back to me shall I?. Is that what you do?. Oh. Good. Thanks
     
  2. roland.g macrumors 603

    roland.g

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    #2
    Well, anytime I get a new Mac I reinstall the OS and drop all that additional nonsense like booting into 15 different languages, and end up saving at least 6GB. So for me it makes no difference to wipe the drive and install 10.5 vs. wipe the drive and re-install 10.5.

    As far as the picture on the box, I wouldn't expect Apple to waste all those boxes sitting in warehouses because they couldn't accurately forecast how many they needed prior to the release date, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Truly that is a logistical and environmental nightmare.
     
  3. se7eren macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    #3
    Have been waiting to buy my first Mac for 6 months. Finally ordered from apple on the 24th Oct via apple finance. E-mail from apple on the 30th Oct to say that my new iMac is about to be built as they have recived the finance agreement. Recieved my iMac yesterday, came in a 'Tiger' box with a drop in disk.

    Hope this answers your question. :)

    For the record, very happy with this arrangement as it means i get to play with 2 OS's for the price of one!!
     
  4. roland.g macrumors 603

    roland.g

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    #4
    Not to mention you get to play with it NOW rather than obsessing worrying about the restore disc and box picture.
     
  5. BruceEBonus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    BruceEBonus

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    #5
    Yes cheers for the replies (so far) - I had this airy fairy idea that if I left it as late as to the 30th October date AND ordered online then the Chinese guys in Wank King, just might take it upon themselves to have mercy and chuck in hard drives with the Leopard on AND have a spanking new set of flat pack boxes all ready to reassemble and get UKwards ... erm .. no.
    I was gonna go for the Mac Mini .. but reneged on that .. and kept firmly steering iMacwise .. and that wouldnt have mattered really cos all the docs and box are purely generic-ky!.But well .. me daughter has a eMac and all the stuff on that is Panther related and you know darlings....now in the world of Leopard - its seems so passé now that two OSs have taken place.Were it not for the fact that Im Scottish and am fully drawn to the generous £100 rebate coming my way .. the fact that Leopard came out four days afore the cut-off Offer date AND I get the 10% student discount on this from Apple - it was simply too good an offer to turn down. Im a current PC person and have been for many years - and was gonna go for the 24" white iMAc last year - now its not only £200 cheaper .. I get £150 Student Discount .. a new OS .. its almost a freebie (well maybe not quite) but well - I am still a bit miffed that the Sales blokes on the telesales greedy for a catch said "We are 99.99% certain that Leopard WILL be preinstalled" .. looks like theres gonna be a helluva big 01% of Tiger`purchasers out there! Dammit! Curses, etc! Aye!.Oh and can I just say "Bollocks" at this point in time?. "Cut it here!"-Ed
     
  6. kkat69 macrumors 68020

    kkat69

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    #6
    Yes

    Seen 1 pre-installed in person. Wow can't believe it's just a big deal to want to pay for only 1 OS rather than pay the same price for 2 OS's

    So be it.

    Then I take my answer back........ Nope never seen it or heard of it. I'm not looking at one right now and it does not have an actual Leopard Restore disk that does not say "OS 10.5" in little letters.

    /sarcasmoff
     
  7. chaos86 macrumors 65816

    chaos86

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    #7
    so let me get this straight-- you're willing to wait for longer, and potentially miss out on the 100 pounds, to get a box with a picture of an imac with the new space background on it; a box that will most likely live in a closet or attic for the rest of it's life?

    oh, and as an apple stockholder, I approve of them sending out tiger machines with a drop in leopard disk. to put the original the OS on the drive, I'm sure they use disk mirroring hardware that does dozens of drives at a time, before the drives ever reach the computers, then they boot the computer once and do a quick diagnostic to make sure it works, then send it away. to update the already-packaged computers to leopard they would have plug each computer for 25 minutes and clone a full leopard install onto each machine. that would be a ridiculous use of time and electricity. also, throwing away replacing all the documentation, and even the box itself to match the OS that comes preinstalled, would be a huge waste and environmental groups would (again) tear apple a new one.
     
  8. BruceEBonus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    BruceEBonus

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    #8
    Yes I see where yer coming from .. and cant really disagree. And dont worry . there's no way, Ray - that I shall lose out on a hundred British quids for the sake of a box with a more alluring piccy on it (in the loft or not!) but well - its .. just so .. frustrating. Yes ... Iknow - I really have to get out more! :D Anyway - if I DO keep the whole thing . .and chances are .. I probably will .. as you say - use it NOW .. I still have the fear of The Freezing iMac Syndrome ... and/or of the urban myth that the Leopard Drop In disc is not the full version (apparently if you want iLife 08 you need the Tiger discs?) - so that will help to compensate for any acceptance of the pointlessness of Leopard Preinstallation worries!.Whew!
     
  9. roland.g macrumors 603

    roland.g

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    #9
    I'd love to imagine to.. .understand.. .what you're really worried.. .about.. except for the fact.. that the fact is that the factors that pattern.. .distract.. me from.. I think I need to sit down...:eek:
     
  10. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #10
    It is the full version, iLife is not part of the OS, so it is on the original disk.
     
  11. BruceEBonus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    BruceEBonus

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    #11
    So thanks for that last reply. If you do the Erase and Install thingy .. using the Drop In Leopard Disc then the WHOLE system will be replaced and not just `top up' over the Tiger. In other words. It is fully non-Tiger dependant and is exactly the same as say - a Retail Leopard disc?. Now - whilst I have you here .. another equally important (to me at least) question.
    By accepting the Leopard Drop In .. are you effectively missing out on the accompanying documentation/manual pertaining to Leopard?. In other words - lets say Leopard wasnt out for a while yet. YOu buy the standard Tiger installed iMac 24". You go to open the box .. will you then find a manual on Tiger or Tiger specific info?. Or is it all just applicable to the hardware only?. I hope its the latter - then truly the only difference WOULD be the box outer only ---and beleive it or not, readers - I COULD and WOULD live with that! ("God be praised!"-Ed)
    Answers please! :confused:
    Thanks!
     
  12. roland.g macrumors 603

    roland.g

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    #12
    Any documentation that is available with the machine, or OS, is available online.

    Now I bought Leopard and it came with a manual/book, however I am fairly certain that book will not be included in any new Mac, even once Leopard ships preinstalled, just as my iMac did not come with a Tiger manual/book nor did my PowerBook a Jaguar book. The book is exclusive to the retail OS.
     
  13. BruceEBonus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    BruceEBonus

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    Sep 23, 2007
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    Derbyshire, England
    #13
    Thanks for the superquick reply, Roland. You're answering me queries well, here. So yer saying then that the only real difference that anyone would notice twixt say a current Tiger package and the eventual 2008 Leopard package when opening would be the fact that only the disks would have different wording .. IE DRop IN and (not) just Plain Leopard!.
    I hope this is the case and if so then I really am just whittling about nowt!
     
  14. roland.g macrumors 603

    roland.g

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    #14
    No. As you have stated the box will look different. The documentation may mention Tiger or it may not, I don't remember as I did not read my iMac book except on how to clean the glass. But as I said it will not be the retail version with the book, as far as I know. Usually drop-in disc, means disc in a sleeve, not box with manual, but I don't know that, though I am fairly certain. As far as the discs go:

    When you get a Mac it doesn't come with the OS disc per se, it comes with a restore disc specific to the hardware in it, ie. iMac, MacBook, Mac Pro etc. That disc has the OS and bundled apps, such as iLife, trial software, etc, to RESTORE you Mac to its shipped state if you need to. The Leopard drop in is essentially a retail copy that will upgrade the OS for you. If you choose to upgrade, all of iLife will be there. If you choose to erase and install as to remove Tiger from the machine and start new, then once you have done so you WILL NEED to reinsert Disc 1 of the 2 restore discs and run the installer. Then you will customize the installation to leave off the OS, and only install the bundled software, of which you should be able to choose which Applications you do and don't want, such as Garageband, iDVD, etc.
     
  15. BruceEBonus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    BruceEBonus

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    #15
    OK...I think and am sure others will confirm the OS references in any documentation in a iMac box. But will the Restore Discs actually differ from machine to machine .. that being. IF I forcibly burst into a brand new Tiger preinstalled machine .. and then a Leopard presinstalled machine .. would I see identical Restore Discs?. Excuse the confusion.. after about 16 years of PCs and simply wiping off the OS... formatting the drive then reinstalling a fresh new OS from ONE disc (Windows 95/98/Millenium/XP/Vista) Im not used to such things. NO .. wait a minute .. I am .. my current Medion had XP Home on it .. you would reinstall the lot from the supplied CDs I agree .. but ... it would also be poss to do a clean wipe if you wanted . but to to dhat would bugger up the partitioning of the hard drive because the main applications were kept on a protected partition on the machine's hard drive ... basically - what I (wrongfully it seems) am assuming is that by wiping/formatting/erasing the hard drive .. via the Erase and Install .. when I have finished using the Drop In Leopard disc .. I shall be left with .. Leopard/ILife08 and its associated applications. I udnerstand that you wont get a full set of manuals because that willonly be for the FULL Version purchases only. I see things only in PC terms. SO lets say for example I went out about a year ago .. bought a Dell Laptop with XP .. Id get the machine and restore discs with XP on them along with stuff ike Autoroute MS Works etc .. .. bung these in .. and lo and behold .. XP AND applications donated by Dell. BUT if they chucked in a Vista drop in disc.. I would presume to get it to overwrite XP then you'd be left with VIsta o top of XP and the applications. BUT if you Erased and INstalle d.. all youd get woudl be Vista only. Fine. But in this case .. PC wise .. there would be quite different packages for the XP and Vista boxed machines. Oh dear oh dear... pass the whisky, Hamish! :(
     
  16. roland.g macrumors 603

    roland.g

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    #16

    You are making this harder and harder on your brain. And ours.

    The Leopard drop in (or retail version) do not have iLife (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb, Garageband) on them. So let's say I bought an iMac last year (white one) and it came with iLife '06 and Tiger. When I buy Leopard and install it. I still have iLife '06. I would have to buy iLife '08 to upgrade those programs.

    Likewise, I bought an iMac (aluminum) in August. It came with Tiger and iLife '08, preinstalled. I then put in the RESTORE disc for the iMac which cannot be used on any other machine (MacBook, Mac Pro) and erased and reinstalled Tiger with less of the junk (printer drivers, additional languages, etc.) to free up space, but I still had iLife '08 after because this was preinstalled, it came with the machine, so it WAS ON the restore discs.

    Now I bought Leopard recently and will be upgrading over the weekend. I have 2 choices:

    1. Upgrade Leopard and that's it nothing else changes. It writes over Tiger and installs the new files.

    2. Clean install Leopard which wipes the drive and installs Leopard how I want it, no extra printer drivers and languages. But because Leopard does not include any of the bundled software, I must then put in my iMac RESTORE discs (which have Tiger on them) and choose a CUSTOMIZED installation, to ONLY install the programs I want. In this case it would be the iLife suite and any other programs/trials I want.

    I can't make it any clearer than that.
     
  17. Spinnetti macrumors regular

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    Kentucky
    #17

    Here-here!

    I do exactly the same thing... nice way to free up a bunch of space, and if shipping it back is worth your time and money, well, its your time and money!

    Cheers
     
  18. kkat69 macrumors 68020

    kkat69

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    Location:
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    #18
    I smell a post padding troll.

    What you get in the box:

    Al iMac documentation pertaining to Tiger OS (Not to much different from Leopard documentation except leopard one is in color. I have both books your not missing out on much and you'll get more info from the Apple website) OR Al iMac documentation pertaining to Leopard OS
    Tiger Restore Disk - Which include iLife '08 OR Leopard Restore Disk - Which include iLife '08
    If Tiger Restore Disk you'll get Leopard Drop in disk which from what I hear can also be used to do a clean install (just requires the Tiger disk for validation) If you want iLife you use your restore disks and install optional software
    Freezing iMacs, if it freezes in Tiger it'll probably freeze in Leopard. Besides the upgrade/archive install/clean install will replace the drivers anyway
     
  19. BruceEBonus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    BruceEBonus

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    #19
    Thanks to all you lot - poor Roland in particular who have persisted in taking me S-L-O-W-L-Y through the unboxing and discovery atween the differences of a Leopard/Tiger machine. I now at last understand ...
    In Tiger you get .. Tiger embedded into the Restore Discs
    In Leopard - ditto but with .. erm .. Leopard embedded
    If you have the former you bung the Leopard Drop In and get the iLife etc off its Restore Discs - if the latter .. why! Its all on the Restore Discs.
    But as I expected - there is relevant Tiger pertaining info on the documentation which is annoying. Not exactly end-of-the-world annoyance. But .. annoying .. when I realise that in a coupla more weeks this question will probably be academic cos you'll get the Leopard version anyway.
    The Back To School Rebate promotion however is too good an offer to lose out on so looks like I'll just accept it.
    Also viewers - before you think I have taken leave of my senses (further) and would be daft enough to cough at least £20-£40 for re-shipping charges back to Swahililand - then dont worry.
    Under British Law items have to comply with three rules to conform to the Sale Of Goods Act ... ("Wake me up when he's finished!"-Ed)
    Be Fit For Purpose (YES)
    Of Merchantable Quality (YES)
    As Described (NO)
    The final one does not comply because the Sales Droid told me that it WOULD have Leopard presinstalled and on that basis - it was bought on that representation. To sell something using advantageous claims is illegal - so I can quite happily return it because its breached one of the three rules!Hurrah!.
    BUT to be honest - realistically - even if I told the courier to do a 180 degree turn and "bring me another ... NOW!" .. chances are I reckon that backlog numbers will be such that it'll probably be a Tiger machine again.
    I just get annoyed at Apple Reps trying to get commission by lying about the fact that "all machines ordered on or after 26th October will have Leopard installed and be Leopard-centric" .. what they mean is .. all machines after that date will have a drop in disc. Not the same.
    Anyway - fact is - Ive got the answers I needed so thanks a lot y'all ... your patient explanations were not all in vain. No .. really!.
    Now .. its a matter of (gulp) resorting out me Outlook Mail (via Outlook2Mac) and working out if I should get VMWare Fusion/Parallels 3 or just use Bootcamp to run the few Windows programs that I cant do without.
    But thats another thread!. (":eek:Ed)
     

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