darkwing said:
Ummm, except I'm not offended when someone calls me gay. And that's because I am. I'm offended when someone labels something less than desirable "gay." But I suppose you wouldn't understand, because "phat" is a good thing, right?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The use of the word "gay"
- Thread starter vmardian
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Ummm, except I'm not offended when someone calls me gay. And that's because I am. I'm offended when someone labels something less than desirable "gay." But I suppose you wouldn't understand, because "phat" is a good thing, right?
leekohler said:
i'm all for not using the term gay in reference to anything other than homosexuality, or perhaps happy, etc.
however, here you are assuming that you know how ALL gay people think and feel. you are falling prey to what you chastise in the people you are responding to- telling people how they (should) think and feel.
i don't know mad jew's or stewart's gay friends, but i don't think it's 100% guaranteed that they are truly offended by either of those two's use of the term gay.
dynamicv said:So my frequent usage of the phrase "gayest gay boy in gay land with extra gay thrown in for good measure" is wrong then?
Nope!
leekohler said:Hey guys! Thanks for clearing it all up! I'm just a stupid, way too sensitive ****** who should just get over people associating the word "gay" with just about every negative thing there is! I should just get over it! OK cool! Sounds great!
Thanks for associating my sexuality with just about everything you hate. I really f***ing appreciate it!
And I've got news for those of you whose gay friends say they aren't offended. They really are- they just don't want to risk losing your friendship. Trust me. Truth is- they'd really rather you didn't say it.
Oh wait, and thanks for telling me how to feel and think- loved that.
I do not get it. Whether or not anyone wants to admit it, slang is language that is understood clearly by the population that uses it. It may be right or may be wrong to say gay meaning stupid, but to the individual using the word gay, as such, one cannot say to him that he is wrong. To that individual, the word gay may mean stupid. He is ignorant but not wrong for using gay in that manner. The point is, even after the individual knows the true meaning, gay still means stupid to him because it is slang and will remain slang.
You offended me by saying f***ing (just kidding/but just theoretically). That is an awful word which has developed different meanings over time. My offense may be just as real as your offense. No one is able to judge that.
I am a straight, white male, but I wholly can understand how you could be offended. There is reverse discrimination all the time, and though most would say that it is not the same, it is the same. It makes no difference if you are white or black, gay or straight, or skinny or fat. It hurts the same everytime someone says a hurtful/offensive/mean/insulting comment.
Blue Velvet said:
Amazing pith and compression -- I envy that sentence.
And spot on, by the way ...
jelloshotsrules said:
I don't see how you make that inference? Since when do we need unanimous feelings of offense to qualify something as offensive?
As soon as you say "should," you enter the realm of the ethical. I think it's hard to stage the ethical argument that we should act offensivley toward the other?
"Responsibility is actually love, as Pascal said: 'without concupiscence' .... Love must always watch over justice."
aquajet said:
Aquajet, I've heard many a gay people, both offline and online, who complain when someone says something is gay. So what? It's just a word. We all have things that are offensive to us, but people poke fun. This girl who is really important to me has epilepsy and one day she commented about how much it hurts to see all these seizure jokes on tv. I had to comment on how more often there are fat jokes on tv...she didn't really think about it. Nobody deserves to not be offended. Just laugh along and live life.
thedude110 said:
i'm not sure you read all my posts in this thread. i fully support not using the term gay in casual talk to refer to things as stupid, etc... and while i do not really do this myself, i do cringe and often say something when someone else does.
my point was simply that it is not safe to assume that someone else finds offense simply because they have something in common with you. ie, just because some gay people take offense (even if they don't say it) when their friends use the word gay to refer to bad things, that does not inherently mean ALL gay people feel that way.
let it be clear though, i would still agree the word should not be used that way, regardless. just pointing out that assumptions go both ways.
Everyone just needs to quit being so god damn sensitive about everything. I am part English, part Italian, and a very small part Indian, and there is nothing you can say that would offend me in a personal way because I am proud of what I am regardless of anyone else's views. If I were gay, today's use (or mis-use) of the word gay would not offend me, just as if I were Jewish, hearing someone say they got "jewed" (ripped off) the other day would not offend me.
"Just get over it".
"Just get over it".
maybe we should just switch to calling things "queer" which actually means "strange"... but then again my friends would call me "gay" for that.
jelloshotsrule said:
What about their closeted gay friends who are too scared to speak up because they are afraid it might raise suspicion? What about all the gay people in the world who are not their few openly gay friends?
e
Yup, while I was in high school I was closeted, and had to hear people calling teachers, homework assignments, and bad situations 'gay'. I'll tell you one thing, it didn't make me want to come out of the closet.
I only had one friend who said it though. And when I came out of the closet he apologized profusely. I was a bit disappointed in him that he said it in the first place, though.
It's about being considerate, people. But more than that it's about being decent.
e
I only had one friend who said it though. And when I came out of the closet he apologized profusely. I was a bit disappointed in him that he said it in the first place, though.
It's about being considerate, people. But more than that it's about being decent.
e
Although I fit the term, I don't much care how people use the word. I'm just too thick skinned in my old age.
For those interested, the term "gay" when referring to a homosexual (Male or female) is thought to stem from a 1920s expression "Gay cat" although the OED can only go back as far as Gertrude Stein who referred to people being happy to "be relaxed about being gay in their surroundings," but they can't be sure she was talking about homosexuality, so it's not referrenced.
Use of the word outside of its homo connotations is fine, I guess, provided it's not meant in a bullying sense, but who's to make that judgement?
"That's so gay!" or "That's so a gay thing!" smack of stereotyping and most in the queer fraternity / sorority would say "Well, YOU say it's gay, but it's not me!"
It's a nice, appropriate (for we are happy, are we not?) and succinct word; much less clumsy than homosexual, or catamite.
If you're looking for some alternative terms, here are some I've been called (the feint-hearted should stop reading now):
poof, shirt-lifter, brown-hatter, knob shiter, nancy-boy, Friend of Dorothy (a Judy Garland / Wizard of Oz refence), bender, ginger, iron hoof, bum-bandit, sword swallower, driver of the Hershey Highway, lady-in-waiting, family member, diver in the rear and so on.
Sorry if these terms have offended anyone, but getting beaten up for being yourself makes simple words just that: words.
For those interested, the term "gay" when referring to a homosexual (Male or female) is thought to stem from a 1920s expression "Gay cat" although the OED can only go back as far as Gertrude Stein who referred to people being happy to "be relaxed about being gay in their surroundings," but they can't be sure she was talking about homosexuality, so it's not referrenced.
Use of the word outside of its homo connotations is fine, I guess, provided it's not meant in a bullying sense, but who's to make that judgement?
"That's so gay!" or "That's so a gay thing!" smack of stereotyping and most in the queer fraternity / sorority would say "Well, YOU say it's gay, but it's not me!"
It's a nice, appropriate (for we are happy, are we not?) and succinct word; much less clumsy than homosexual, or catamite.
If you're looking for some alternative terms, here are some I've been called (the feint-hearted should stop reading now):
poof, shirt-lifter, brown-hatter, knob shiter, nancy-boy, Friend of Dorothy (a Judy Garland / Wizard of Oz refence), bender, ginger, iron hoof, bum-bandit, sword swallower, driver of the Hershey Highway, lady-in-waiting, family member, diver in the rear and so on.
Sorry if these terms have offended anyone, but getting beaten up for being yourself makes simple words just that: words.
When people say the word gay in a negative manner, it affects the perception of homosexuals as a whole in a negative way, whether the person saying it intended that or not. If people grow up in an environment where the word 'gay' is used to describe bad things, they'll be more inclined to have a negative perception of 'gay' people. Right now people in the US are growing up in that environment. I have proof that this adversely affects homosexuals. I posted it above. I grew up in an environment where kids said 'gay' to mean 'bad'. "Mr. x is so gay! He gave us 5 days to write a 10 page paper!". "I hate Sharon, she's so gay". "Cmon, don't be gay, come hang out with us!". Do you blame me for being a little scared to come out of the closet and be openly 'gay' to the world after hearing this every single day? Now, it wasn't the sole reason I was in the closet, but it was a factor. So, you never know who you might be hurting when you use gay out of context. I had really cool friends who were strongly against such things, but I did have a single friend who did use the word 'gay' improperly. It made me sad, and I was disappointed in him every time he said it. After I came out, he apologized profusely to me, which I appreciated very much. Apology is hard.
So, here is what I encourage you to do if you have gay friends who you think don't care about whether or not you say the word 'gay' out of context:
a - stop saying it because of other people. Your gay friends are not the only gay people in the world.
b - please deliver the following message to them:
"Have a little respect for yourself. As homosexuals, we have a special appreciation for acceptance, because on a societal scale, we don't have it. Before we want to get married, before we want legal equality, before we want adoption rights, we want to be able to walk down a street holding hands with the person we love without getting stared down. With acceptance comes equality - legal equality and social equality. Every time someone says the word 'gay' out of context, we take a step away from that dream of a world where we are accepted. Confront people who say this word out of context not only for the future of all homosexuals, but for your own future. Unfortunately the right road is not always the easy road. I urge you to take the right road, so that all the roads you follow after that will be easier."
e
So, here is what I encourage you to do if you have gay friends who you think don't care about whether or not you say the word 'gay' out of context:
a - stop saying it because of other people. Your gay friends are not the only gay people in the world.
b - please deliver the following message to them:
"Have a little respect for yourself. As homosexuals, we have a special appreciation for acceptance, because on a societal scale, we don't have it. Before we want to get married, before we want legal equality, before we want adoption rights, we want to be able to walk down a street holding hands with the person we love without getting stared down. With acceptance comes equality - legal equality and social equality. Every time someone says the word 'gay' out of context, we take a step away from that dream of a world where we are accepted. Confront people who say this word out of context not only for the future of all homosexuals, but for your own future. Unfortunately the right road is not always the easy road. I urge you to take the right road, so that all the roads you follow after that will be easier."
e
This is such a cracker conversation its disgusting.
There, let's just substitute in "cracker" instead of "gay". Or does anyone know a more derogatory term for white people? It always made me laugh more than anything else when I was called a cracker.
There, let's just substitute in "cracker" instead of "gay". Or does anyone know a more derogatory term for white people? It always made me laugh more than anything else when I was called a cracker.
darkwing said:
Point taken. I do understand that, for my own sanity, sometimes I've just got to shrug such things off. I usually won't say anything to someone unless that person drones on egregiously using such words. Some may say it's a part of their culture, but I say not all culture is worthwhile, and sometimes is downright imbecilic.
darkwing said:
I have to disagree with this.
First of all, "Nobody deserves to not be offended"? That's very rude. People shouldn't be made to feel bad. Sometimes they can control if it hurts them, sometimes they can't. It depends on the person and the situation. In either case, though, people do not "deserve" to be offended.
Second, the fat reference isn't exactly fair.
- In one case (orientation, seizure, etc), you're talking about something that the person has no control over. On top of that, you're taking something that isn't "bad" and making the person feel bad about it. Well, at least with orientation. Seizures aren't exactly good, but they fit into the first category of something that cannot be controlled.
- However, in the second case (fat), it is something people have control over. Yes, its hard, yes, there's predisposition, on and on. I know, trust me I know, I've been involved and regularly read research about this topic. But the fact remains that it IS something that can be controlled, with varying degrees of difficulty to the person. On top of that, its something that is amazingly unhealthy, but that's a whole different topic.
darkwing said:
There are a number of things that are incorrect about your post, I'm afriad. First, yes, it's just a word. Words start wars. Words start revolutions. Words start friendships. So beware of saying that something is only a word. As for fat jokes, I agree, we shouldn't poke so much fun at fat people. But for the vast majority of overweight and obese people, it is a choice to be obese. It is a controllable thing. But I don't think that's an excuse to make fat jokes, as I agree, people should be able to laugh at themselves. But this is not a joke. There is nothing funny about using the word 'gay' out of context. I can laugh at gay jokes easily. For example, jokes about gay stereotypes, and such. But using the word 'gay' out of context has no comedic value that I can see.
e
OK not to show my ignorance but what is the difference between Gay, Lesbian, and Homosexual? I see stuff for Gay and Lesbian, but isn't it the same thing? Why not just say Homosexual? When did Gay officially become an offensive word? Weren't there gay people back in the 50's when the word had different meaning or was there not a term then? When did straight mean heterosexual and why was another word not used? Don't shoot me just wondering.