The wolves are circling the rMBP, Dell XPS and Razer 14". Its a good thing

[Merode]

Maybe it's offtopic, but I'm never buing anything with Razer logo again.

I've bought Razer Kraken Pro Headphones and they died after 16 months. My friend bought Razer Orca headphones almost in the same time and they died also in the same time. I expected more of 80€ headphones.

I don't want to think what Razer notebook might be like.

 

[leman]

Sorry to say but 860m is out of the question.

While GM107 is much more efficient than GK107 it also runs close to double the performance while efficiency is not 100% more.

GM 107 at max consumes a good bit more than GK 107 and an 860m is GM 107 at max.

The 750 Ti has the DP of 60W, the 860M has the TDP of 45W. So its either lower clocked, more power efficient (binning!) or simply has a lower thermal ceiling (and will throttle quicker). I would wait for some official tests before making final conclusions.

 

[john123]

Difference is Soft drinks have nothing to do with Apple's products or strengths. Gaming is huge on iOS, and hopefully more game developers push to using openGL instead of DX on desktop. I could easily see gaming taking off on Macbooks. Even the Airs have pretty capable gaming machines now, there is a huge growing indie scene these days to capture the more casual market too.

Yes, it is big on iOS, but just because Apple happens to make that doesn't somehow translate to it being big on Apple desktops. People have been saying, "I could easily see gaming take off on [Macs]" for over a decade now.

bunch of stuff

This whole semantic debate aside, this is an argument that will resolve itself whenever new models come out. Thus far, Apple has historically not worried about what PC manufacturers are doing in any line, and I just don't see that changing. Rarely have they opted for the best on the graphics side, and I'd be shocked if that changes this year. It doesn't matter what PC manufacturers do because aesthetics aside, the OS is the biggest driver. That's not to suggest there wouldn't be a penalty for Apple making a piece of junk, or falling significantly behind the curve. But it is to suggest that they don't feel compelled to be "best" and that being in the ballpark has, at least historically, been good enough.

 

[Serelus]

The same mistake gets made in alot of these threads.

It's User Experience first, then comes hardware, software and the whole shabam.

Personally I use a Macbook Pro Retina fully spec'd out with Windows 8.1, Mavericks, and Ubuntu running on it. Try getting that flawlessly running on the Razer Blaze and get back to me.

 

[theromz]

Yes, it is big on iOS, but just because Apple happens to make that doesn't somehow translate to it being big on Apple desktops. People have been saying, "I could easily see gaming take off on [Macs]" for over a decade now.

The main reasons it hasn't taken off yet is MSFT and DX, it is only recently that we have seen people really starting to release games for Mac/Linux, partly due too steam. Also all of apple's mac line now has good graphics horse power, the Air can run games like Dota pretty well, its a solid machine for a causal gamer, if they where able to get a lot more games on the platform it could possible take off.

There has recently been a huge rise of indie games, and when I show my gf (none gamer) a lot of these she really enjoys them.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying apple need a gaming laptop, my thought is the opposite, intel GPUs are getting to the put where it is good enough, the Iris Pro in my 13" rMBP runs batman on high settings at 1680*1050 that is amazing for such a thin and light laptop. I think if they gave it a go along with steam OS it could be the push we need for more mainstream games and indies to release things for OSX/Linux.

 

[cirus]

The 750 Ti has the TDP of 60W, the 860M has the TDP of 45W. So its either lower clocked, more power efficient (binning!) or simply has a lower thermal ceiling (and will throttle quicker). I would wait for some official tests before making final conclusions.

TDP != power consumption.

This is a comparison between the 650 and the 750ti. The 750 ti indisputedly uses more power.

I am comparing at the die level. GM107 uses more power than GK107 at the same clockspeeds.

The 860m clocks are quite high, 1029-1097 on the core with 5,000 mhz GDDR5.

Binning is not enough to reduce this gap.

An overclocked 650 still uses less power than a stock 750 ti

It is simply more likely that a 850m will be used.

 

[leman]

TDP != power consumption.

Never said it is. Still, peak power consumption is limited by the TDP (by design).

This is a comparison between the 650 and the 750ti. The 750 ti indisputedly uses more power.

I am comparing at the die level. GM107 uses more power than GK107 at the same clockspeeds.

I honestly don't see it. Where is the 750 ti even on your graph? Here are some graphs with both the 650 and 750ti. Looks about the same to me.

P.S. I think the confusion arises because we are looking at results from different sources. Best would be if we had measurements done on the same exact computer. I can imagine that it can vary quite a bit depending on the PSU, mainboard, measuring tools and maybe also ambient conditions...

 

[FrozenDarkness]

It's hard for me to say. Razer 14" is completely different than a rMBP. the razer stars off expensive, only can come with 8GB of RAM, and starts only at 128GB of SSD. It's not meant to be anything more but a gaming machine. Apple is literally the direct opposite. Apple spends probably 1% of their time thinking of how to make it a good gaming machine.

 

[Sym0]

The same mistake gets made in alot of these threads.

It's User Experience first, then comes hardware, software and the whole shabam.

Personally I use a Macbook Pro Retina fully spec'd out with Windows 8.1, Mavericks, and Ubuntu running on it. Try getting that flawlessly running on the Razer Blaze and get back to me.

Exactly, I have both top spec rMPB and similar spec custom built Metabox which is similar to Razor.

There is no comparison, while the specs are the same, the user interface is black and white. The Metabox while priced the same looks no different to an entry level laptop you could pickup at any generic office/outlet store.

The mac looks and feels like its price tag and exceeds the competitor for quality and user experience. Most people are wowed by the mac long before they realise it has every bit the performance of a custom built equivalent. Then the real draw dropping begins.

 

[cirus]

The 750 Ti has the DP of 60W, the 860M has the TDP of 45W. So its either lower clocked, more power efficient (binning!) or simply has a lower thermal ceiling (and will throttle quicker). I would wait for some official tests before making final conclusions.

Never said it is. Still, peak power consumption is limited by the TDP (by design).



I honestly don't see it. Where is the 750 ti even on your graph? Here are some graphs with both the 650 and 750ti. Looks about the same to me.

P.S. I think the confusion arises because we are looking at results from different sources. Best would be if we had measurements done on the same exact computer. I can imagine that it can vary quite a bit depending on the PSU, mainboard, measuring tools and maybe also ambient conditions...

You are right I didn't see that.

Needless to say I believe that just like with the 2013 rmbp where everyone clamored for a 760m (its technically possible, razer got one, etc.) and got a 750m we will be getting a 850m.

750m is already downclocked in the rmbp and drains the battery when gaming. The rmbp and adapter literally do not have a single watt to spare.

 

[thekev]

Makes it funny that they have a line called Envy that all look like Macbook rip offs. Ironic naming. Their iMac copy looks good, along with their Thunderbolt display copy haha.

I wouldn't really call it an imac copy. They copied the concept of an all in one. I don't know if Apple invented that, but they are certainly the ones who made the concept popular starting with the imac G3. HP's design is distinctly their own there. The notebook mentioned by maflynn is where they really visually aped Apple.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

HP did completely ripped off the look/feel of the aluminum MBP (or was it the MBA I forget) - It happens

Sony had the chicklet keys, and HP had the black border around their screen, and a lighter colored body. Apple took the chicklet keys from Sony, the black border from HP, melded it together with some aluminum, and called it a Macbook Pro. Right after that, HP came out with the "envy", I always thought they were mocking Apple.

750m is already downclocked in the rmbp and drains the battery when gaming. The rmbp and adapter literally do not have a single watt to spare.

Quite right. The MBP could probably handle the heat from the 860, but it's the power requirements that are holding Apple back. They'd have to make a larger power supply in order to power the thing, as Razer did.

 

[theromz]

I wouldn't really call it an imac copy. They copied the concept of an all in one. I don't know if Apple invented that, but they are certainly the ones who made the concept popular starting with the imac G3. HP's design is distinctly their own there. The notebook mentioned by maflynn is where they really visually aped Apple.

It looks really similar, it isn't the concept I'm talking about, but more the design, even the idea of having a touchpad instead of a mouse is there.

 

[leman]

Quite right. The MBP could probably handle the heat from the 860, but it's the power requirements that are holding Apple back. They'd have to make a larger power supply in order to power the thing, as Razer did.

How comes? If it can handle a Sandy Bridge + overclocked 650M, then it surely can handle a Haswell+860M. The power requirements should be virtually the same.

P.S. I am not suggesting that we will see a 860M in there. I am quite sure we won't. But not for reasons some have stated here. I believe we will have an overclocked 850M, which will be basically the same thing.

 

[barkmonster]

Maybe it's offtopic, but I'm never buing anything with Razer logo again.

I've bought Razer Kraken Pro Headphones and they died after 16 months. My friend bought Razer Orca headphones almost in the same time and they died also in the same time. I expected more of 80€ headphones.

I don't want to think what Razer notebook might be like.

You paid so little for a set of headphones, yet believed them to be high end and durable?

I have Sennheiser HD25s that not only spank Beats For Fashion Victims quite handily, but they're still flawless to this day. Every part of them is modular apart from the headband too so given that years and I mean, years of use have made the earpads worn in places, the ability to buy Sennheiser-branded replacements for £11 or so is also a bonus given it's the only part of them that could possibly perish after years of use due to wear and tear.

I honestly don't understand the logic of some people.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

How comes? If it can handle a Sandy Bridge + overclocked 650M, then it surely can handle a Haswell+860M. The power requirements should be virtually the same.

It can't handle the 750m, it actually drains power from the battery if you try to use the 750 at max.

 

[thekev]

It looks really similar, it isn't the concept I'm talking about, but more the design, even the idea of having a touchpad instead of a mouse is there.

Are we thinking of different machines here? The link is to the Z1. That doesn't use a touchpad. There is a touchscreen version that folds back. Given that it's aimed at CAD users, the concept isn't a bad one.

 

[Anitramane]

It can't handle the 750m, it actually drains power from the battery if you try to use the 750 at max.

The 13" mid 2012 i7 can't handle the Cpu and HD4000 running at max sometimes... It's weird.

APPLE, make bigger powerbricks

 

[theromz]

Are we thinking of different machines here? The link is to the Z1. That doesn't use a touchpad. There is a touchscreen version that folds back. Given that it's aimed at CAD users, the concept isn't a bad one.

http://cdn3.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/b.../09/Screen-Shot-2012-09-10-at-10.02.51-AM.jpg

I can't find it on their site but I remember seeing this when it was released and not believing that they actual did this. The design is so close too the iMac its stupid.

Don't have anything against HP personally, but when you compare it too the Z1, and the other home all in ones it is clear that the spectre isn't an evolution of that design, same can be said about their spectre laptops.

 

[thekev]

http://cdn3.tnwcdn.com/wp-content/b.../09/Screen-Shot-2012-09-10-at-10.02.51-AM.jpg

I can't find it on their site but I remember seeing this when it was released and not believing that they actual did this. The design is so close too the iMac its stupid.

Don't have anything against HP personally, but when you compare it too the Z1, and the other home all in ones it is clear that the spectre isn't an evolution of that design, same can be said about their spectre laptops.

Ah I wasn't even aware of that one. I thought you meant the Z1. I do see what you mean about it being an imac copy.

 

[Merode]

You paid so little for a set of headphones, yet believed them to be high end and durable?

You're right about durable part, not high-end. ;-)

In all honesty, I firmly believe that any electronics you buy nowadays should endure at least 2 years of mild usage. Otherwise manufacturer shouldn't even sell such a device. Maybe it's just warranty regulations in my country that distort my mind here, but if device can't endure at least 2 years, then it must have been carved out of s......

 

[barkmonster]

You're right about durable part, not high-end. ;-)

In all honesty, I firmly believe that any electronics you buy nowadays should endure at least 2 years of mild usage. Otherwise manufacturer shouldn't even sell such a device. Maybe it's just warranty regulations in my country that distort my mind here, but if device can't endure at least 2 years, then it must have been carved out of s......

I agree. iPhone earphones lasted me 7 months from new, the Lightning cable wore around the connector end and stopped working entirely within 14 months and yet I have the 30 pin charge cable from a first generation iPod nano that's built like a tank and lasted forever. It's as if anything other than devices themselves is engineered to be replaced often unless you pay a lot for it (if that's even an option).

 

[fatlardo]

Only good thing is macs have better battery life than others.

 

[dmccloud]

Vizio is also selling an iMac look alike (although it's not as close to the iMac design as the Spectre):

 

[5to1]

I think there is a bit of a change here though. No one before has really tried to go head to head with the rMBP on everything. The form factor, SSD, screen , build quality, battery life. Before yes a PC laptop may be faster but usually its bigger with a bad screen and an HDD etc. I don't think Apple minded this because an ugly box with high specs is not a competitor to a Macbook Pro. But well made laptops in close to identical form factors with retina screens, SSDs and high specs are directly competing.

Take a look at the Vaio Z. Unfortunately in the normal consumer space (in the West Atleast) we just don't see these "uber" machines often, but they've been around for a while from the Japanese manufacturers. Instead our retail sheds (PC World, the Best Buy of the UK) have been pushing plastic fantastic machines with CPU "speeds" prominent as a comparator, yet little attention paid to displays, memory, HDD/SSD, etc. Thats fortunately changing now.