Converted2Truth said:
thanks... yeah I ordered one for my dad.. I've no idea when I'll get it (and Small Dog has no idea yet either) but I saved on taxes and I got in on the temporary free-shipping offer.
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Theory on why Apple has no low-end display of their own
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thanks... yeah I ordered one for my dad.. I've no idea when I'll get it (and Small Dog has no idea yet either) but I saved on taxes and I got in on the temporary free-shipping offer.
I think Apple would do well to remind people they don't HAVE to buy an Apple display... but also to have one ready for people who want a complete system.
The only way that equals the price of an eMac is if it's a 17" CRT for $400! And even so, you lose one real benefit of the Mini Mac: upgrade the CPU alone for lower cost later. Can't do that with the eMac (which, by the way, is due for some kind of update or price drop before long I'm sure).
BTW, I had a PS/2-USB adapter from Radio Shack, and it didn't work well. When you held a key down, it would type one character... then pause as usual... then type it again... then pause AGAIN... and THEN repeat fast as normal! There were TWO pauses before the key repeat instead of one. Annoying when deleting... deadly in some games. Because what was happening is that the adapter for some reason would send an extra key UP signal and then another key down. So the computer thought you were pressing once, releasing, pressing again and then holding. Thus the two pauses instead of one. In game, two keypresses instead of one steady press makes a difference. Your character would stop moving for a moment every time you pressed a key. Worse yet, some games like UT2004 than used double-presses would think you were doing a double-press! So I would be double-dodging and double-jumping all over the place without meaning to.
I returned it. I'm pretty sure the issue was the adapter, since the keyboard itself did not have that problem on my PC. I don't remember if I tried my PS/2 mouse--I probably did and that at least worked or I'd remember that problem as well.
Other PS/2 adapters may be better. Someone posted that a USB cable with dual PS/2 ports on the end worked well when the little 1-1 adapters did not. Apple really SHOULD include a USB-to-dual-PS/2 connector that does work well. Or at least have one ready to sell.
The only way that equals the price of an eMac is if it's a 17" CRT for $400! And even so, you lose one real benefit of the Mini Mac: upgrade the CPU alone for lower cost later. Can't do that with the eMac (which, by the way, is due for some kind of update or price drop before long I'm sure).
BTW, I had a PS/2-USB adapter from Radio Shack, and it didn't work well. When you held a key down, it would type one character... then pause as usual... then type it again... then pause AGAIN... and THEN repeat fast as normal! There were TWO pauses before the key repeat instead of one. Annoying when deleting... deadly in some games. Because what was happening is that the adapter for some reason would send an extra key UP signal and then another key down. So the computer thought you were pressing once, releasing, pressing again and then holding. Thus the two pauses instead of one. In game, two keypresses instead of one steady press makes a difference. Your character would stop moving for a moment every time you pressed a key. Worse yet, some games like UT2004 than used double-presses would think you were doing a double-press! So I would be double-dodging and double-jumping all over the place without meaning to.
I returned it. I'm pretty sure the issue was the adapter, since the keyboard itself did not have that problem on my PC. I don't remember if I tried my PS/2 mouse--I probably did and that at least worked or I'd remember that problem as well.
Other PS/2 adapters may be better. Someone posted that a USB cable with dual PS/2 ports on the end worked well when the little 1-1 adapters did not. Apple really SHOULD include a USB-to-dual-PS/2 connector that does work well. Or at least have one ready to sell.
Converted2Truth said:
What about the iBook G3 series (the ones with the defective logic boards)? theyre flaming hunks of crap.. Believe me i know.. Mines had everything but the screen and keyboard replaced. I can scan my service reciepts to prove it.
I think one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=81687&item=5155502479&rd=1
would be perfect! Cheap and a good quality Apple product. I know its only 15" but again, cost. My 2 cents.
would be perfect! Cheap and a good quality Apple product. I know its only 15" but again, cost. My 2 cents.
Re quality, Apple has had some problem models, and has received some bad components from suppliers too. And yet they remain consistently THE top PC maker in terms of hardware reliability. For laptops and for desktops measured separately, too. See Consumer Reports for large-scale surveys on failure rates. (Apple's on top in effective support, too--although not having to support Windows is probably cheating 
)
)
In my opinion, I wish Apple would make a small, low cost lcd to go along with the mac mini. They could use the same lcd's in the 15" PB and 17" iMac G5's, house them in a clean but cheap enclosure, pop a usb port on them, and you'd have a great little widescreen display.
I couldn't tell you how much it would cost to build that, but I'm guessing they could do it for a fairly reasonable price.
I couldn't tell you how much it would cost to build that, but I'm guessing they could do it for a fairly reasonable price.
I agree. I'm sure Apple will do so, or has some good reason not to. Most buyers may not need a display, but if as many Minis sell as I expect, the chunk who will need one is going to be a sizable number.
Apple could reduce profit margins to almost nothing on them... it's still no worse than the profit margin on sending them to Best Buy to get a display (and talk to PC salespeople on the way).
And it would achieve two things, for the people who went with the Apple display:
1. Convenience - a complete system without having to work for it.
2. A more complete experience of Apple style and quality.
If Apple was careful to stress that ANY display WILL work, and even had a Mini set up with a non-Apple display (like they show at Apple.com), then I don't think there would be much downside to offering the option. Even just a single model.
That model would be 15.2" widescreen I would think. 17" is cool, but if they didn't want to offer two, and the point is to be low-end, 1280x854 ain't half bad.
Then again, a 17" would sell to some tower buyers too. Not everyone needs more than that, even if they want a G5 with upgradable GPU. I bet the 17" Studio Display didn't sell that well lately--but it wasn't widescreen and didn't match the current Macs.
Apple could reduce profit margins to almost nothing on them... it's still no worse than the profit margin on sending them to Best Buy to get a display (and talk to PC salespeople on the way).
And it would achieve two things, for the people who went with the Apple display:
1. Convenience - a complete system without having to work for it.
2. A more complete experience of Apple style and quality.
If Apple was careful to stress that ANY display WILL work, and even had a Mini set up with a non-Apple display (like they show at Apple.com), then I don't think there would be much downside to offering the option. Even just a single model.
That model would be 15.2" widescreen I would think. 17" is cool, but if they didn't want to offer two, and the point is to be low-end, 1280x854 ain't half bad.
Then again, a 17" would sell to some tower buyers too. Not everyone needs more than that, even if they want a G5 with upgradable GPU. I bet the 17" Studio Display didn't sell that well lately--but it wasn't widescreen and didn't match the current Macs.
grapes911 said:
the keyword is "widescreen". i would buy an apple 15" or 17" widescreen lcd in a hearbeat, as it couldn't cost too much anymore. too bad they are not offering those...
a cheap widescreen display with a dvi input and nothing fancy. that'd sell tons.
did you not listen to the keynote? did you not see my amazingly eloquent diagrams?
the target audience of the mini is people like my girlfriend. switchers. she has seen my powerbook and my ipod, hates her desktop hp machine, and wants to buy a mac. if she gets the mini mac--- listen closely--- 1 she will unplug all the stuff from the hp tower, 2 pick it up, move it somewhere else, 3 buy a $499 or $599 mac mini with nothing else, 4 put the mini mac in the gaping hole left on her desk, 5 plug the stuff in. thats it. the target audience is SWITCHERS who have DISPLAYS and peripherals already. after trying apples OS on all beige peripherals, then their next buy might be an emac, imac, or ibook. the displays dont even need to play a part in the switcher crowd til MUCH later when they get all the way up the line to the powermacs and powerbooks.
the target audience of the mini is people like my girlfriend. switchers. she has seen my powerbook and my ipod, hates her desktop hp machine, and wants to buy a mac. if she gets the mini mac--- listen closely--- 1 she will unplug all the stuff from the hp tower, 2 pick it up, move it somewhere else, 3 buy a $499 or $599 mac mini with nothing else, 4 put the mini mac in the gaping hole left on her desk, 5 plug the stuff in. thats it. the target audience is SWITCHERS who have DISPLAYS and peripherals already. after trying apples OS on all beige peripherals, then their next buy might be an emac, imac, or ibook. the displays dont even need to play a part in the switcher crowd til MUCH later when they get all the way up the line to the powermacs and powerbooks.
That's too simplistic--although I do like your diagram
You are assuming that ALL Mini buyers have a display already, and none will want to buy one.
I think that may be a sizable number, but that there will be plenty of other buyers too. Including switchers who are sick of their old screen, not just their old PC.
You are assuming that ALL Mini buyers have a display already, and none will want to buy one.
I think that may be a sizable number, but that there will be plenty of other buyers too. Including switchers who are sick of their old screen, not just their old PC.
but that is the main point of this mac. youre not supposed to get it unless you have a pc to junk and use all the peripherals. otehrwise get an emac (nice flat crt screens). they have pretty much the same stuff but with screen, kb, mouse for $799. $300 extra for a monitor, kb, mouse is pretty good. unless youre going for form factor...