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There is no justification for WEP cracking.

D

darngooddesign

macrumors Core
Original poster
Jul 4, 2007
19,324
11,550
Atlanta, GA
Not saying where I stand on the matter, but there is no argument for illegally craking a network that holds water. Either ask the network owner's permission, go to a coffee shop, or use the EDGE your phone came with. For all the Touch owners who don't have edge, well thats what you get for buying a dumb terminal. :D
 
I here ya but I'm intrigued by the mere possibility of it. To me, with ample security (protecting your computer and data) there should be no need for 100 strong & locked WiFi signals in a 1 city block area. Why not share some of that wealth?

Most ppl if granted access to a network wouldn't be sucking up bandwidth by downloading the content of the library of congress or anything like that. Mostly its passive web searches that have little to no effect on what the owner is doing at all.

Kinda like someone walking by and getting a glass of water from your garden hose on a hot day. Some ppl would call the police, some ppl wouldnt mind at all.

But we all know how some ppl get when they own a well in a desert.
 
LOL. Sorry about that. Didn't see that this was in the iPhone forum. Oops! Anyway, take that you iPhone wielding WEP-crackers. Ya ain't swiping my bandwidth. :D
 
It is a shame the WEP cracking topic was killed. It is not necessarily illegal, it just could be depending on the circumstances.
 
I agree, i mean the only convenient wifi around my dorm is by some other guy who has it locked so if i want to use wifi i have to walk across campus to use it
 
Bernie-Mac said:
I agree, i mean the only convenient wifi around my dorm is by some other guy who has it locked so if i want to use wifi i have to walk across campus to use it
Click to expand...

...lol and thats why they locked it...because people would do exactly what you want to do, which is illegal.

Even though it would be oh-so convienient, and Im not going to lie..probably would ;)
 
i think there is a big misconception between gaining access to a network and intercepting other ppls data as defined in the Federal Wire and Electronic Communications Interception Act.

here is an excerpt from an interesting article that questions the Legality of WEP Cracking

A lot of ppl [reasonably] assume that things are illegal but CANNOT point to a law or cite a courtcase where someone has been fined, arrested or charged with accessing a neighbor's network for their own personal use.

If anyone can forward a specific law that says one cannot use a WiFi for your own personal use (and I sure there are some) can you please post it.

Relevant excerpts (although I encourage the interested reader to look
it up themselves):

18 USC 2510:

(4) "intercept" means the aural or other acquisition of the contents
of any wire, electronic, or oral communication through the use of any
electronic, mechanical, or other device.
[...]
(12) "electronic communication" means any transfer of signs, signals,
writing, images, sounds, data, or intelligence of any nature
transmitted in whole or in part by a wire, radio, electromagnetic,
photoelectronic or photooptical system that affects interstate or
foreign commerce, but does not include? [...]

18 USC 2511:
Except as otherwise specifically provided in this chapter any person who?

(a) intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any
other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept, any wire, oral, or
electronic communication;
[...]
shall be punished as provided in subsection (4) or shall be subject to
suit as provided in subsection (5).
[...]
(4)
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection or in
subsection (5), whoever violates subsection (1) of this section shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or
both.
Click to expand...
 
On another note, I built aircrack-ng for the iPhone but I have no idea how to use it, so I do not know if it works :rolleyes: Apparently, there's controversy over it though :eek:
 
i dont get it... if its there to be cracked then people will try. i.e. me :p.

people will always be trying to get into places they arent supposed to go to.you cant control that, if you want to use ethernet
 
If you play your music loud enough to penetrate the walls of your apartment, does the neighbor owe you royalties? Do your neighbors owe the original copyright holder royalties? Should your neighbor share in any of the costs of downloading the song in iTunes?


While a WiFi signal is invisible to human eyes and ears, it doesn't discount the notion that the originator is violating another's personal space without their permission. If these victims just so happen to derive benefit from this intrusion, how can you call them a thief?

-joedy
 
Those are some pretty good excuses for what amounts to actively taking advantage of someone else. Passivley would be hopping on their open network, but you are going out of your way to use something that the other person obviously didnt want you to use. While not stealing, because you haven't taken anything tangible, its tantamount to breaking and entering.

Would it bother you if you came home and someone had broken into your house and was watching your TV?

I hop on public networks all the time and when I know the password I will hop on a private network, but I have no illusions as to what I'm doing is wrong.

Joedy, loud music is an analogy for a public, open network. If someone is using headphones because he doesn't want to share the music, that would be a closed network.

Bernie-Mac. Why don't you talk to the owner of that network and offer to pay him a bit of money for the use of his wifi.
 
darngooddesign said:
Would it bother you if you came home and someone had broken into your house and was watching your TV?
Click to expand...

That's the analogy you would use if someone walked in your house and got on your computer. Not sat in their house and used your WiFi.
 
A better analogy would be this:

Assume that you operate a file server on your home network -- say, for accessing documents that you need and transferring stuff back and forth while you're away from home.

If you set it up with no password, so that anyone can freely log in, then you're all but inviting people to sniff around. That's kind of like the situation with an open Wi Fi network.

But if you set it up with a password (even if it's a dumb password, such as the name of your dog), then anyone with any sense will realize that you're trying to prevent people from logging on. It would be wrong for someone to try and crack your password, because you put the password in place specifically to exclude uninvited visitors. Cracking WEP to use someone else's encrypted Wi Fi network is like cracking someone's weak password: just because you have the ability to break in doesn't make it any less wrong.
 
KYBOSH said:
If anyone can forward a specific law that says one cannot use a WiFi for your own personal use (and I sure there are some) can you please post it.
Click to expand...

I think the legal issues belong to the wifi provider. If someone does something illegal on your network you and your ISP are responsible for that. Things are different in public places, not many are going to hang out for lengthy periods in a public place and do anything illegal. So, I believe residential wifi should be password protected, and public areas should not, easy simple, everybodys happy. If you don't have wifi in your place of living, stop stealing your neighbors and get it. I do however get pissed off when security is required for places like McDonald's and Hotels, thats just effin ridiculous, even more ridiculous is that they use an html redirect to provide access.
 
JPyre said:
I think the legal issues belong to the wifi provider. If someone does something illegal on your network you and your ISP are responsible for that. Things are different in public places, not many are going to hang out for lengthy periods in a public place and do anything illegal. So, I believe residential wifi should be password protected, and public areas should not, easy simple, everybodys happy. If you don't have wifi in your place of living, stop stealing your neighbors and get it. I do however get pissed off when security is required for places like McDonald's and Hotels, thats just effin ridiculous, even more ridiculous is that they use an html redirect to provide access.
Click to expand...
Many good points and I completely agree about McDonald's (yuck) and Hotels making you login. Hotels especially since you are already being provided with a room. A lot of times I can't even login.
 
Bs.

The open file server analogy is just like saying if you leave your new car unlocked I have the right to hop in and take it for a spin.

You can all keep coming up for analogies for stealing that work to your advantage, but you're still a thief.

It is stealing since it's stealing bandwidth. Say I'm a professional xBox player and I've got my xBox live running a game of GOW room for a tourney and you come crack into my network for your own cheap-ass selfish reasons and cost me a few thousand dollars by STEALING my bandwidth and causing my room to lag.

Data and bandwidth are measurable things and when you purchase that from an ISP you are paying for a quantity of such. If you come in and take that from someone without at least asking, you are stealing, plain and simple.

If my network is open and you want to enjoy what I pay for, then the right and honest thing to do is to come and ask me if I would mind sharing that with you.

Free Wi-Fi is awesome when offered, and I hope it continues to grow, but stealing is stealing.

I'm sick of people who think they deserve something for nothing or at other's expense.
 
i agree that it would be considered stealing because you didnt ask for it or pay for it.

But can you call the police and have your neighbor arrested for using your bandwidth?

Can you sue for damages in court?

Does anyone have a real world law in the books that addresses these issue specifically or are you all just going to keep wagging your fingers without anything on paper? What are the penalties under law and have charges EVER been brought up on using a neighbors WiFi without expressed permission.

If no one can come up with anything I say we have a grey area and its not illegal (yet). No analogies needed.... just show me the [case]law.

I've looked and i dont see it.
 
technocoy said:
The open file server analogy is just like saying if you leave your new car unlocked I have the right to hop in and take it for a spin.

You can all keep coming up for analogies for stealing that work to your advantage, but you're still a thief.

It is stealing since it's stealing bandwidth. Say I'm a professional xBox player and I've got my xBox live running a game of GOW room for a tourney and you come crack into my network for your own cheap-ass selfish reasons and cost me a few thousand dollars by STEALING my bandwidth and causing my room to lag.
Click to expand...

Why would you let the opportunity even exist if thousands of dollars are at stake? It doesn't cost that much to run a bit of Cat5.
 
Well, I'm not for anyone cracking my WiFi router. It's mine and so is the bandwidth I pay for. Had I opened it for the public, I wouldn't have put a password. So, I think it should be illegal even if it's in the grey area.

So, to combat this problem and to separate the script-kiddies from the real crackers, I hide my SSID and change my password frequently. Encryption is WPA2, and almost everything that was default has been changed. I still don't feel safe with it on all the time, so I have the wireless portion shut down when it's not in use and have everything connected to good ole' ethernet cables. That way I feel assured that no one is using my connection for illegal torrents.
 
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