There is no such thing as "perfection" when manufacturing any product... INCLUDING iPhones!

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by 1080p, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. 1080p, Oct 12, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015

    1080p macrumors 68030


    Mar 17, 2010
    Planet Earth
    I currently work as an Aerospace Machinist. I make parts that go into jet engines. Even the products that I make have tolerances (acceptable ranges of dimensions and specs)... and our products are integral to keeping an airplane in the sky! There is no such thing as perfection. A blueprint is a theoretical perfect target to shoot for.... but all of them allow for tolerances!

    If I am grinding a shaft, often times, I only have + or - .0005 (I've even seen tighter tolerances) on the diameter size.

    All manufacturing processes allow for variation within tolerance. The iPhone is no different. Apple designed the A9 chip with tolerances.

    They went to both Samsung and TSMC and said "the chip must perform within this range..." ... probably with regard to performance, energy consumption, temperature, stability, etc. When Apple announced the iPhone with all of the claimed specs and battery life, they most likely under promised (using data taken from the Samsung). If TSMC is delivering more than Apple's promise... then kudos to those who were lucky enough to get that chip. If you got a Samsung... quit whining! Apple has not withheld anything from you or not delivered anything below their promise.

    Swapping phones hoping to get another chip is stupid... and actually a bit egotistical. It's almost like you believe you are entitled to something better... "just because."

    The next time you ride in an airplane... think about this. Are you going to ask the airline to find out who made the parts in the engine and if you are not satisfied, ask to ride in a different plane?

    Get over it and yourself and just enjoy the new iPhone.
  2. Andres Cantu macrumors 68030

    Andres Cantu

    May 31, 2015
    Rio Grande Valley in South Texas
    Well said. Where will these people be next year when Samsung releases the rumored three variants of the Galaxy S7, the one from the U.S. having more RAM but less processing power (due to Snapdragon 820) than the international model? Those differences are much more noticeable than the iPhone 6s's chips.
  3. Serickmetz macrumors 6502


    Sep 17, 2013
    If I'm purchasing this plane then yes, I want to know every part and to know that my plane is performing as well as other identical planes.

    If I'm just going for a ride then I don't care, it's not my plane to worry about and if it's a Samsung plane, I will just bring a fan.
  4. cableguy84 macrumors 65816


    Sep 7, 2015
  5. eyoungren, Oct 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2015

    eyoungren macrumors Core


    Aug 31, 2011
    ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
    I'm quoting this specific line in your post just to mention the standard response to this. It will be something along the lines of "I pay X dollars for this device…it's an expensive device…therefore it SHOULD be perfect, not have any flaws or perceived imperfections."

    I happen to not entirely agree with that standard response because as you said there is no such thing as perfection. However, I just wanted to point out what you can expect.

    Moving along, I think, the bigger crime here is not "chipgate" but failure on Apple's part (or at least it's marketing team) to recognize just what it's more rabid legions of fans would do once they found out about this. A more proactive approach could have shut this down from the beginning - like should have happened. Instead, Apple makes a weak public response that is in no way going to calm these people down. They only see their own results in their own flawed "testing".


    Flight 1549 was an ETOPS Airbus A320. Just saying. ;)
  6. 1080p thread starter macrumors 68030


    Mar 17, 2010
    Planet Earth
    This is impossible. No two will perform identically. The manufacturing process might be good enough to provide a difference that is negligible enough to to be unnoticeable... but never identical. As a matter of fact, I have a friend who is a machinist at shop that makes auto parts. Once he blew a tolerance on a part he was making but the engineer went ahead and stamped the part for approval anyway. He actually said that the part would give the car increased performance... but that isn't what the design spec called for. Someone is gonna get lucky and get a few extra hp because of this snafu. Does everyone else have the right to return it and request one that is performing better than advertised because someone else got one?
  7. ielessar macrumors regular

    Apr 29, 2015
  8. Black05Hemi, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015

    Black05Hemi macrumors regular

    Feb 9, 2015
    I disagree. For what Apple charges for these phones, i'd better be 100% satisfied with it. If tests are done to prove there's differences between those two chips, you can bet your ass i'll have the "better chip" in my phone. That is, If I ever do decide to buy a 6S.

    It's not my fault Apple used two different chips. And are, in my opinion, being less than truthful when they say "there's only a 2-3% difference". Yeah, sure there is!

    I see posts on here, with people talking about OCD, and people being so anal about their phones. Yeah, no kidding, it's a $1k phone! As far as i'm concerned, whoever isn't completely satisifed with their phone, for whatever reason, has every right to exchange it. And, to keep exchanging it, until they get everything they paid for.

    The argument of settling for anything less boggles my mind...
  9. Jordan921 macrumors 601


    Jul 7, 2010
    Bay Area
  10. Rangers94 macrumors 6502


    Sep 20, 2014
    Well said. Agree 100%. We're talking about a $1,000 product. Damn right I want the best chip in my phone. By Apple lying about being an only 2-3% difference is BS and only makes it less tolerable to accept. Luckily I have a TSMC chip..but I can see why those who have the Samsung chip can be upset and who am I to tell them to suck it up and accept it.
  11. 1080p thread starter macrumors 68030


    Mar 17, 2010
    Planet Earth
    If no one ever discovered the (minor) difference between the 2 chips... and you had the Samsung... you would be 100% satisfied.

    Let's look at this statement. "I'll have" and "in my phone." Ego much? It's almost like you believe your money is more valuable that someone else's. There is no choice for you to have. Apple didn't "use 2 chips." Apple designed 1 chip and had 2 companies manufacture it for them within design specifications. The Apple A9. That is what they promised you and that is what you got!

    Once again... bringing up the "high cost of an iPhone." Everyone spends the same for an iPhone. $650 gets you an iPhone logic board with 2GB of RAM, Apple A9 processor, 16GB of flash storage, a camera system, a fingerprint reader, a 4.7" 3D Touch Screen and aluminum chassis. Any amount spend over $650 is to upgrade the size of the screen and/or the amount of flash storage you get. Apple has not promised to give a "better processor" to anyone who spends more money. To people obsessing over "Chipgate." You bet your ass it is a form of OCD! They would have been perfectly happy with their iPhone 6S if there had not been any reports of "different chips." Now if you throw in the idea that someone else's iPhone might get 1 hour more in battery life or get 10 more points in Geekbench, and they are losing their minds!

    No. Anyone who isn't satisfied with their phone has the right to return it for a full refund and seek out another product that suits their needs. For the first 14 days, Apple will allow exchanges for those wanting to change models. Example: Going from 6S to 6S+, going from 16GB to 64GB, going from Gold to Rose Gold. There is no option for exchanging an iPhone with an A9 chip to an iPhone with a better A9 chip.

    You did get everything you paid for. Apple said, "We have new iPhone models. The 6S and 6S+. They come in these storage capacities and cost _______." If you bought an iPhone and it does what they said it would do, you got what you paid for.

    People like you ruin it for other consumers. Exchanging phones a dozen times over something so trivial because of your OCD is bad for their business. So much so, Apple could be forced to take action that harms the rest of us normal people. Like implementing a restocking fee for returns. I hope Apple takes other actions (instead of a restocking fee) to quickly nip this in the bud. Like tracking a person's purchase and return patterns... via payment method and/or requiring an Apple ID to purchase hardware from them. Too many returns? Then you are banned. There is a point when you are not a profitable customer for them anymore!
  12. IconIc215 macrumors 6502

    Oct 11, 2013
    All valid points....Well done
  13. Kyotoma macrumors 68000


    Nov 11, 2010
    Carnegie and Ontario

    Fighting the good fight. Bravo good sir.

    I would post another long example from the Automotive Aftermarket but I believe you've clarified the ridiculousness of this topic for all of us.
  14. Broadus macrumors 6502a

    Oct 26, 2011
    Upstate SC
    Really, the "ego" charge can go both ways. My 6s has the Samsung chip and seems fine for my use, but I'm not going to be derisive toward and dismissive of those who are concerned about it.
  15. old-wiz macrumors G3

    Mar 26, 2008
    West Suburban Boston Ma
    And if Apple sells 10 MILLION phones, statistically there will be some with a defect, no matter how many people check it. I applaud the OP for the info on tolerances. I wonder how much of a tolerance there is within the iPhone (or iPad or ipod Touch) for sizes and performance. In audio systems, no 2 microphones perform exactly the same; I have 2 cochlear implants and over 30 years I have had both "normal" and "hot" microphones. You have to have some degree of tolerance in both part sizes and performance.
  16. Sanlitun macrumors 6502


    Sep 19, 2014
    I just expect it to exhibit the same build quality control as the 6+ I have now. It should be perfect within the parameters of its design.

    There is no way that so many 6S+ phones are supposed to have blemished displays, but despite this there is a reason Apple has released them for sale anyways. There are other factors than manufacturing tolerances playing a part in which phones end up in the hands of consumers. Corners can be cut etc.

    Anyways I returned mine.
  17. Nolander07 macrumors 6502a

    Oct 16, 2012
    What about watches? A nice Swiss mechanical watch ($10,000) and a really nice watch ($25000 and above) have tolerances. Many are from -4 seconds to +6 seconds per day. If 2 people buy the same watch and one loses 2 sec/day and the other watch is spot on, you can bet your life you can't go and exchange your watch just because someone else's is more accurate. It's within tolerances and its luck if the draw. 2 seconds a day may seem like a lot but it's really 99.99....% accurate.
    Just one example- this hysteria seems to mostly happen around iPhones. I have never seen this kind be of behavior on watch forums when talking about things that cost multiples of ten times that iPhones do. It's nuts.
  18. Eileen89 macrumors 65816

    Aug 12, 2014
    As long as the SIM Free 6S + that I have coming performs as well as or better than my iPhone 6 + I don't care what Chip is in it.
  19. IphoneIssues macrumors 65816

    Dec 30, 2010

    You can't tell people anything. Somebody could return phones with the Samsung chip, 5 times, then get an under performing TSMC chip and never complain.
  20. Hankster macrumors 68020


    Jan 30, 2008
    Washington DC
    Don't think Apple makes good phones? Unhappy with their products? Go buy a BlackBerry or an Android and stop crying here.

    The ONLY reason people complain about Apple products is because they are addicted to Apple products. Else, they would just purchase something else. All smartphones are expensive, so get over it or go back to using a clam shell. People who cry over the smallest things is the issue with today's society. You are all too sensitive. Just be happy we even have an iPhone...would you prefer to go back to BlackBerry or use an Android phone? No. Thought not.
  21. jpgr15 macrumors 6502a

    Apr 28, 2015
    +1,000,000 to this! This would be glorious and would serve some people on here right. It's annoying to no end when I read a post on here around launch time by someone that ordered 6 phones, opened them all, and returned all but the "acceptable" device. This costs consumers money and eats up launch stock. Stop.

    These same people are probably the ones who think their kids are special little snow flakes that never do any wrong. Get over yourself. Your $1,000 iPhone isn't really that much money in 2015 - certainly not enough cash to demand "perfect" (which doesn't exist).

    Do they demand "perfect" in a house? A car? ANYTHING ELSE?! Nothing is perfect. Ever. It's a utopian ideal. A $1,000,000 home will have tolerances.

    Rant over. I just am so over this whole thing. If you can't handle what iPhone you get, go find a different phone. Apple isn't for you and shouldn't have to cater to you because you spent $1,000. Give me a break and get over yourselves people.
  22. bushman4 macrumors 68020

    Mar 22, 2011
    All we ask for is Quality Control that will maintain and uphold the standards and variations that Apple has set forth!!!
  23. Kyotoma macrumors 68000


    Nov 11, 2010
    Carnegie and Ontario
    And that is exactly what you already have!!

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