Think the m1 models will be supported for quite awhile yet.

[Happy_John]

Well, for one thing the M1 MacBook Air is a completely different form factor, with different features. Same goes for the M1 MacBook Pro. Touch Bar anyone?

??? Form factor isn’t really an issue. I’m talking only about the amount of work it would take to provide legacy support to an M1 MBA in an OS designed for M2, M4, M4, M5 and presumably M6 machines.

From the technical side, if the mount of extra work needed to provide legacy support goes over a certain limit of manhours, they should drop support. If it is under that limit, they shouldn’t drop support.

Form factor is not a real consideration.

As for the Tpuchbar, yes it’s dead. However, what isn’t dead are sidebar controls, which very much looks to be reusing a lot of the touchbar’s code. So the issue with the touchbar is simply hardware drivers, unless Sidecar is dropped completely or completely redesigned. Adding legacy sidebar support might not be as time-consuming as it might first appear, but obviously it is not a priority.

 

[wellander1]

The next version of mac os will require an M3 or higher 😀.

 

[Happy_John]

The next version of mac os will require an M3 or higher 😀.

Not the next version, but purely looking at it from a technical point of view, M1, M2, M3 could be all dropped at the same time if Apple releases a macOS that requires hardware raytracing as standard, eg. If Liquid Glass 2.0 required it

 

[EugW]

??? Form factor isn’t really an issue. I’m talking only about the amount of work it would take to provide legacy support to an M1 MBA in an OS designed for M2, M4, M4, M5 and presumably M6 machines.

From the technical side, if the mount of extra work needed to provide legacy support goes over a certain limit of manhours, they should drop support. If it is under that limit, they shouldn’t drop support.

Form factor is not a real consideration.

As for the Tpuchbar, yes it’s dead. However, what isn’t dead are sidebar controls, which very much looks to be reusing a lot of the touchbar’s code. So the issue with the touchbar is simply hardware drivers, unless Sidecar is dropped completely or completely redesigned. Adding legacy sidebar support might not be as time-consuming as it might first appear, but obviously it is not a priority.

Your second part of your comment partially contradicts the first part of your comment.

IOW, what I'm saying it's not just about the SoC, but everything else too, as you know. I consider the Touch Bar as part of the form factor. I'm guessing Apple is champing at the bit to kill off support for the Touch Bar for example.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

I very much agree - it’s third party app developers dropping support for older models / older OSes in new er versions of their apps that “forces” upgrades, not the version of MacOs / iOS / iPadOS itself.

People are far more likely to upgrade their device if Spotify or YouTube drops app support than they are bothered by the fact that their phone / iPad can’t get the latest OS version.

As too your second point, yes, I agree that overspending time and resources on providing legacy support to older hardware is not a sensible decision.for Apple, or any company in control of both hardware and software ( synology is another example).

The big question about the M1 based Macs is if dropping support will be necessary for Apple to do anytime soon. Obviously dropping intel support isa no-brained - offering lecący support for intel-dazed machines is extra work. But are the later versions of M chips so significantly different from the M1 chip that supporting them needs any extra legacy development? Providing legacy support for older Bluetooth or wi-fi chips isn’t enough work to justify dropping support in my opinion, and neither is the extra graphics features (ray-tracing) and ML support baked into later M chips isn’t enough- as these are not essential to the running of the OS itself.

You quoted my post and said you "very much agree", but you left out the part where I talked about the expense of supporting an expanding number of legacy hardware combinations.

I don't know internal details of the A and M series processors. Maybe there are enhancements in later M series processors that aren't in the M1, and therefore require extra effort to support in newer macOS versions.

Likewise, people saying the M1 is equivalent to the A18 Pro in the MacBook Neo are only looking at benchmark scores, which provide no information about the internal architecture.

A large company like Apple needs to be driven by consistent processes. Five years after they stop selling, and done. To reevaluate every legacy product during every upgrade cycle would be time consuming, wasteful, subjective, would appear unpredictable to those of us outside of the company, and would likely cause even more anger among forum users than the predictable policy of "five and done".

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

My expectation is that macOS 27 is the end of the line for the M1 MacBook Air, M1 MacBook Pro, and M1 Mac mini.

Wal-Mart having continued selling the M1 MB Air for some time is likely completely irrelevant.

The one thing that makes me think that you might be a little bit off by at least a year, maybe even two, is the iPad Pro.
As you said…

they’ve been selling Apple Silicon for eons already in the A-series chips.

And as someone else said…

The M1 is basically just an A14X — something Apple had been doing for a long time.

If we look at the direct predecessor to the M1/A14X, the A12X from the 2018 iPad Pro, it is still being supported to this day. Eight operating system revisions later.
It launched with iOS 12, and received iOS 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, and 26. Seven major updates.
And given that they basically continued using the exact same chip with an extra GPU core in the 2020 iPad Pro, it would not shock me to see it receive iPadOS 27 as well.
Same with the 2019 iPad Air with the basic A12, it’s still on the latest version of iPadOS 26, also its seventh major update and eighth version of software, including its original default.
I don’t think Apple is going to treat the Mac and the iPad that differently when it comes to software support, when M1 Macs get dropped M1 iPads will get dropped as well.
Considering that the M1 iPad Air only came out in 2022, I think it at least has until OS 28. Unless Apple just has an absolute bloodbath of early 2020s and late 2010s devices between OS’s 27 and 28, I don’t really think that is likely, I’m pretty certain the M1 is pretty safe for now.
This would mean those initial M1 machines, which launched with Big Sur, received Monterey, Ventura, Sonoma, Sequoia, Tahoe, 27 and 28. The same seven major updates as the 2018 iPad Pro and the 2019 iPad Air and mini.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

I'm guessing Apple is champing at the bit to kill off support for the Touch Bar for example.

Certainly not, as it’s already been pointed out almost all of the touch bar code is recycled into iPad sidecar and that certainly isn’t going anywhere.
Additionally, the touch bar was also used in the M2 MacBook Pro from 2022.
If we stick to your theory that Apple is going to discontinue M1 support with 27, that would mean that the 28 operating systems that are literally, no exaggeration, going to be introduced 15 months from now in June 2027 will require…
MacBook Air: mid 2022 or later
MacBook Pro, 13 inch: mid 2022 or later
MacBook Pro, 14 and 16 inch: early 2023 and later
Mac Mini: early 2023 and later
iMac: late 2023 and later
Mac Studio: mid 2023 and later.
MacPro: mid 2023 and later
iPad Pro: late 2022 and later
iPad Air: early 2024 and later


I don’t think Apple is going to require most of their machines from 2023 and later… In late 2027. This just does not seem likely, at all.
Given that today, in 2026, they still support machines from 2018 in 2019, I don’t think it’s likely a year from now in September 2027 they will require machines from 2022 and 2023.
It just doesn’t match up with how they were supporting pretty much any of their silicon within the last decade.
This timeline genuinely makes no sense, it basically means they’d be cutting off four years of machines in a 12 month time span, something they haven’t done since the days of the Intel transition and the end of those early 32 bit computers.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

This timeline genuinely makes no sense, it basically means they’d be cutting off four years of machines in a 12 month time span, something they haven’t done since the days of the Intel transition and the end of those early 32 bit computers.

I agree that timeline seems aggressive. My prediction: whenever the successor was released (M2 MBP, M2 MBA, etc.), add 5 years, and the macOS version released during that year will be the last.

Regarding cutting off at the Intel transition, I had a 680x0 Mac when they went to PowerPC, a PowerPC Mac when they went to Intel, and an Intel Mac when they went to Apple Silicon. To Apple’s credit, they continued supporting the older processors for their full lifecycle, and I never felt “cut off.” Of course, the writing was on the wall for those older CPU families, but I was able to upgrade in my time, when I was ready.

 

[EugW]

The one thing that makes me think that you might be a little bit off by at least a year, maybe even two, is the iPad Pro.

Well, the support for my iPad Pro 10.5" with A10X from June 2017 got killed off after iPadOS 17, which was released in 2023. This was especially annoying because the slower iPad 7 with A10 and less RAM still got iPadOS 18 support.

For the iPad Pro 11" with A12X from October 2018, it appears iPadOS 26 will likely be the last supported version. No iPadOS 27 support.

It should be noted that date of release within the calendar year also matters. The iPad Pro 10.5" was release before iPadOS 11 came out. However, the iPad Pro 11" with A12X came out after iPadOS 12 came out.

However, the iPads and Macs haven't kept the same OS update schedules. Truth be told, I do think macOS 28 support for the M1 MacBook Air is a possibility, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Marty80]

To me the m1 is still a beast, I will be hanging onto my 16” macbook pro m1 pro max as a secondary computer. When i upgrade to M6 pro max.

 

[jjrtiger]

To me the m1 is still a beast, I will be hanging onto my 16” macbook pro m1 pro max as a secondary computer. When i upgrade to M6 pro max.

It is indeed. Although I wish I had opted for the 32 GB. For some reason I got the M1 Pro with 16 GB of RAM.

What’s crazy is that you can get one on eBay in excellent condition for about $700. Apple is offering $540 trade-in value.

 

[Moukee]

Not the next version, but purely looking at it from a technical point of view, M1, M2, M3 could be all dropped at the same time if Apple releases a macOS that requires hardware raytracing as standard, eg. If Liquid Glass 2.0 required it

The M3 supports hardware accelerated ray tracing. I think feature-wise the M3 is pretty much on par with the M4 so I think they'll drop support for the M3 at the same time as the M4 - especially because the M3 Ultra and M4 Max Mac Studio are the same generation, so I doubt they'd be dropping support for a higher-end configuration of the same device type and generation before dropping support for the lower-end variant.

 

[Happy_John]

The M3 supports hardware accelerated ray tracing. I think feature-wise the M3 is pretty much on par with the M4 so I think they'll drop support for the M3 at the same time as the M4 - especially because the M3 Ultra and M4 Max Mac Studio are the same generation, so I doubt they'd be dropping support for a higher-end configuration of the same device type and generation before dropping support for the lower-end variant.

Ah, I stand corrected - thanks. I thought it came in with the M4, not M3.

And this is were it gets messy about when Apple drops support for devices based on the chips. I’m not sure of the model they used with intel-based Ms homes still fits.

 

[XboxEvolved]

I have a similar thoughts as you probably saw elsewhere in the forums. And I believe you even echoed these sentiments on that thread as well. My thought is, over the years, Apple has standardized and lengthened the amount of time they fully support older hardware from somewhere around 5 years (or less) during PowerPC. Then they standardized to seven years as the hardware and software began catching up with each other, along with the double effect of it being good for the environment.

Obviously, macOS27 will support all Apple silicon and no Intel, but ultimately the question becomes ok well what about after that? You now are able to fully optimize the OS, knock out cobwebs, etc that would have to do with the Intel binary, likely make it thinner, etc. If nothing else I honestly think they will extend it it to at least eight years, because for example in many ways the system is still more powerful than say the MacBook Neo, although opposite can be said of the Neo.

 

[Abazigal]

Interesting counterpoint - would you all be okay with Apple bringing in monetisation in other areas of their ecosystem if that meant they are willing to support their hardware for longer periods of time?

It used to be that people were upgrading iPhones like clockwork every 2 years. Now, it's not uncommon for users to be holding on to their iPhones for 4 years minimum, and Apple is willing to support their iPhones for around 6 years. If not for a screen issue, I was actually prepared to hold on to my 13 pro max all the way.

I wonder if with the Macbook Neo, Apple is hoping that a fraction of Macbook Neo users will sign up for the Creator Studio bundle (which has a very attractive rate for students), and that extra $30 a year might incentivise Apple to continue supporting said device for a while, especially if they subsequently convert to full price as a working adult. Like I don't know how profitable the Macbook Neo is (I am running on the assumption that the majority will buy it at the discounted price of $500), it's common to purchase apps directly from the web (thereby bypassing the Mac App Store), people just don't transact as much on a PC as they do on a smartphone.

And well, my M1 MBA is still going strong, and I simply don't feel compelled to upgrade.

The 2018 iPad Pro lasted me about 5.5 years before I upgraded to the M4 iPad Pro.

I wore my Series 5 Apple Watch for 5 years before switching to the Series 10 (only because the S5 was no longer receiving software updates).

Like with iPhones, it's clear that Apple has multiple ways of monetising their user base, from the 30% iOS App Store cut, to subscriptions, accessories, other Apple hardware, even Apple Pay.

And now, we know that Apple will be introducing ads into their Maps app. Many clearly are not a fan of this, but it does mark Apple's continued shift from simply selling hardware, to selling to people using their hardware. And if a part of this relationship means Apple has a greater incentive to keep supporting their hardware for longer periods of time, it may not be such a bad thing in the greater scheme of things.

 

[EugW]

The will likely drop the M3 before the M4 regardless of the feature set supported.

 

[benwiggy]

would you all be okay with Apple bringing in monetisation in other areas of their ecosystem if that meant they are willing to support their hardware for longer periods of time?

"Bringing in monetisation" -- Do you mean "making money"...? 😛

Apple already makes a huge part of its total revenue from user services -- iCloud, Music, TV, AppleCare, Creative Studio, etc -- as well as its take from the App Stores. $29 Billion in the last quarter! I'm sure they intend to offer more, to get more.

As long as I'm not forced to make payments just to keep my Mac running, then I'm fine with that; though I'm not convinced that it's a lack of sufficient revenue that makes them drop support for hardware.

 

[jerryjohnson]

The M1 still feels overpowered for everyday tasks. Apple silicon efficiency + unified memory really changed the baseline. I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets longer support than previous Intel Airs.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

they made the MacBook Neo with 8gig of ram so I guess it have a few more year of shelf life

?? The MBN is a least expensive entry level device meant to suffice for lowest level needs. Its lame 8 GB RAM does not really extrapolate to the usages of very many users here; except of course for those of us that are entry level or with lowest level needs.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Maybe your workflow lines up better with apple silicon and macOS design than mine. Meanwhile I keep 10 finder windows open, with 15 safari tabs, 10 chrome tabs, one edge Facebook tab all open simultaneously. I also keep word and excel open to do the work, as well as opening photoshop from time to time. I don’t know how this workload is harder to run compared to your molecular simulations, and just navigating around can cause so much lag on my end.

Lag, lack of smooth operation, etc.. are most often a function of RAM rather than chip generation. Except when one is running things that need functions like hardware ray tracing only available in more modern chips.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Well, the support for my iPad Pro 10.5" with A10X from June 2017 got killed off after iPadOS 17, which was released in 2023. This was especially annoying because the slower iPad 7 with A10 and less RAM still got iPadOS 18 support.

For the iPad Pro 11" with A12X from October 2018, it appears iPadOS 26 will likely be the last supported version. No iPadOS 27 support.

It should be noted that date of release within the calendar year also matters. The iPad Pro 10.5" was release before iPadOS 11 came out. However, the iPad Pro 11" with A12X came out after iPadOS 12 came out.

However, the iPads and Macs haven't kept the same OS update schedules. Truth be told, I do think macOS 28 support for the M1 MacBook Air is a possibility, but I wouldn't count on it.

IMO tablets are a very different discussion.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

The M3 supports hardware accelerated ray tracing. I think feature-wise the M3 is pretty much on par with the M4 so I think they'll drop support for the M3 at the same time as the M4 - especially because the M3 Ultra and M4 Max Mac Studio are the same generation, so I doubt they'd be dropping support for a higher-end configuration of the same device type and generation before dropping support for the lower-end variant.

Oh wow - I never realized the AS MP doesn't even have ray tracing. Man... 🤣

 

[9640418]

The first M1 launched in November of 2020. I would say they will be supported easily 10 years. once all the Intel spaghetti code and rosetta is gone, MacOS will be very lean and so there is no reason the M1 can't get updates for many more years

 

[sdfox7]

I've designed electronic products for 40 years. Software support for legacy products is expensive! As more new products are added, the compatibility testing effort grows geometrically. It's not just a matter of starting up successfully and calling it a day, there are detailed test procedures for every feature that have to be executed.

IMO, Apple's software support policy is a reasonable compromise that allows the vast majority of users to get a good life out of their products, without committing Apple to an expensive support burden.

And it's not just Apple. As long as Apple supports an older product, third party software vendors also have to support it, with a similar financial burden. That may not be a huge deal for a big company like Adobe or Microsoft, but it could be prohibitive for a small software shop.

For those who say "Apple is just trying to force us to buy new Macs", I'll retort that it's YOU who are trying to force APPLE, and their third-party developers, to expend resources to support old hardware without a valid business justification.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I work for a Fortune 50 company (not 500). I understand your argument with the hassle of legacy support. Unfortunately, many companies have software/hardware they've been running for the last 30 to 40 years. I still see dot-matrix printers at airports.

While there has been an effort to migrate these legacy systems to web apps, there are a few obstacles:

1) The people that built the original program, and understand it, are dead or have left the company. You need to know how the existing system works to replicate it. Maybe AI will change/eliminate that requirement.

2) It is expensive to create new programs that do exactly the same as the old. Justify that cost to the ROI team. I would say this is one of strongest arguments against modernization.

3) Apple releases a new OS EVERY SINGLE YEAR. That is not conducive to the teams doing to software/hardware testing to find out what broke on the newest OS.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

IMO tablets are a very different discussion.

I disagree, especially with Apple using the exact same chips in their iPads as the Mac, plus the fact that the operating systems continue to share more and more and more. Even looking through the system requirements of the last several versions of iPadOS and macOS side-by-side, they shared the exact same system requirements for the exact same select features. It’s very likely that when Apple introduces a feature within macOS that requires the M1, the identical feature will be given the exact same system requirement in iPadOS.
Additionally, the M series of chips are usually introduced in the iPad shortly before or shortly after the Mac, so long-term system requirements should be pretty much the same.
It’s very likely that, for example, if macOS 29 drops support for M1 Macs, iPadOS 29 will also drop support for M1 iPads.