Think we'll ever see any battery milestones?

[iBreatheApple]

Every year capacity of mobile device batteries gets higher and higher. At the same time, the devices themselves become stronger and faster. Because of this, it seems this is an endless cycle and we'll never escape it.

Anyone think/hope we'll soon reach a milestone with battery innovation? I'd give anything to get three and four days of life from our devices, phones especially. :/

 

[DarkoDonnie]

there was recently an article about some young'in who created a revolutionary battery that worked off of basically nothing. it was pretty cool.

I may have misunderstand what she created, but seemed like it's the start of the next battery breakthrough http://www.dailytech.com/High+Schoo...hat+Can+Charge+in+20+Seconds/article31580.htm

 

[Zmanbaseball2]

there was recently an article about some young'in who created a revolutionary battery that worked off of basically nothing. it was pretty cool.

I may have misunderstand what she created, but seemed like it's the start of the next battery breakthrough http://www.dailytech.com/High+Schoo...hat+Can+Charge+in+20+Seconds/article31580.htm

It was a battery that took 5 seconds to charge and it lasted for 15 minutes i think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[waa1futs]

Every year capacity of mobile device batteries gets higher and higher. At the same time, the devices themselves become stronger and faster. Because of this, it seems this is an endless cycle and we'll never escape it.

Anyone think/hope we'll soon reach a milestone with battery innovation? I'd give anything to get three and four days of life from our devices, phones especially. :/

I feel that Apple is content with battery life an will simply keep it around where its at with tiny incremental improvements over time

If they increased the battery to 2000mAh that would simply be less profit per device for extra battery life that the average customer "doesn't need".

 

[unlimitedx]

I feel that Apple is content with battery life an will simply keep it around where its at with tiny incremental improvements over time

If they increased the battery to 2000mAh that would simply be less profit per device for extra battery life that the average customer "doesn't need".

I disagree. For example, the MacBook Airs this year essentially doubled in battery life.

 

[waa1futs]

I disagree. For example, the MacBook Airs this year essentially doubled in battery life.

But that battery gain was almost entirely based on the Haswell chip, built by Intel, which we knew was coming and was years in the making specifically built for long battery life.

The iPhone doesn't have a "Haswell" chip on the horizon to expect that type of battery jump. If anything Apple simply kept the battery size of the MacBook Airs the same (just like they basically will with the iPhone).

 

[Applejuiced]

Hope we see some battery breakthrough.
Like 75% of the space taken up inside the iphone is by the battery.
And in most cases it barely lasts a day for some.

 

[swingerofbirch]

Think if current iPhones were the size of a Zach Morris cell phone . . . you'd have plenty of room for more battery.

I don't use an iPhone but have an iPod touch, and I use a Jackery battery bar. It really isn't that much to carry around with you and gives you a few extra complete charges.

 

[Beeplance]

Double of the current life would be around 2 days of normal usage, wouldn't it be? The average account of current battery life is around 1 day of normal usage....

3-4 days seem kinda far-fetched given the current state of technology in the smartphone industry, but hopefully I'm proven wrong.

 

[unlimitedx]

But that battery gain was almost entirely based on the Haswell chip, built by Intel, which we knew was coming and was years in the making specifically built for long battery life.

The iPhone doesn't have a "Haswell" chip on the horizon to expect that type of battery jump. If anything Apple simply kept the battery size of the MacBook Airs the same (just like they basically will with the iPhone).

But just because there is no alleged "Haswell" chip on the horizon for iPhone does not mean there will be no innovation on battery life. Nobody can answer that question unless you're working for Apple and know what's going on.

 

[Luuthian]

I'm sure there will be but the problems are expense and testing.

Most up and coming battery technologies are either in incomplete stages of testing or have no cheap/standard method of production. It will take a few years to get these technologies to the point where they're both proven to work and reliable (as well as cheap) enough to manufacture.

It's great that scientists and college grads around the world have amazing battery prototypes that work, but they have no army of machines that can mass produce them. Those batteries are created in labs or classrooms simply to prove that a concept is reality.

Battery advances will happen within the next few years, I'm sure, but until then manufacturers are stuck creating more efficient hardware and software to make up for it. And that's not such a bad thing... It's certainly making manufacturers push the boundaries of power management innovation. Imagine the incredible battery life our devices will have when you combine better battery tech with Haswell style chips!

 

[Daveoc64]

But just because there is no alleged "Haswell" chip on the horizon for iPhone does not mean there will be no innovation on battery life. Nobody can answer that question unless you're working for Apple and know what's going on.

You don't seem to understand that Apple does not have a magic wand.

We're talking about industry projections here, not fantasy.

The "we don't know what Apple is doing" argument doesn't work for physics.

 

[Gav2k]

Battery tech has reached a peak in development terms. A new battery technology would cost a fortune to get in a consumer device.

The smart money would be to focus on display technology and reduce its energy consumption

 

[iBreatheApple]

Battery tech has reached a peak in development terms. A new battery technology would cost a fortune to get in a consumer device.

The smart money would be to focus on display technology and reduce its energy consumption

Such a shame if true. What makes you say it's at it's peak? The lack of said milestone? There's always a time between nothing and a breakthrough. It is my hope that we are in that period and something great is right around the corner.

 

[cynics]

We are still about 2 years away from a silicon type lithium battery (replace or combine with the graphite in a lith ion) for mass production. That should provide a decent amount of capacity vs current lith ion.

Last I read other techs are even further out.

The problem is cost and testing. Silicon based lithium ion batteries are not reliable. That's a big deal with a cell phone that the consumer expect to last at least 2 years.

Bright side is the hardware and software is getting more energy efficient while still increasing its power. Take the iPhone 5 vs the 4S. Bigger screen, LTE, more powerful, yet with a similar sized battery get as good (if not better) battery life. That's pretty impressive IMO.

 

[Gav2k]

Such a shame if true. What makes you say it's at it's peak? The lack of said milestone? There's always a time between nothing and a breakthrough. It is my hope that we are in that period and something great is right around the corner.

Silicon lion batteries are going to be out of reach for consumer devices for 5-10 years in reality. The current tech can be advanced for rapid charging but capacities are relative. Reducing the draw on batteries is where the advances will be.

 

[unlimitedx]

You don't seem to understand that Apple does not have a magic wand.

We're talking about industry projections here, not fantasy.

The "we don't know what Apple is doing" argument doesn't work for physics.

And if you were able to travel back in time to 2000 and tell them about the iPhone they probably won't believe you because there's no magic wand and based on "industry projections" the iPhone is fantasy talk and doesn't work for physics


plenty of improvements yet to come in battery technology. and per the users posted above, the real issue will be scale and cost.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...oga-teen-wins-intel-award-longer-lasting-cell

"Under the mentorship of Yat Li, a chemistry professor at UC-Santa Cruz, Khare developed a new nanomaterial, an ultra tiny material that measures less than 100 nanometers (or one-ten-millionth of a meter) in at least one dimension. She hopes her material -- hydrogenated titanium oxide and polyaniline, if you really want to know -- can be used in supercapacitators. Those are high-capacity units that store energy via static charge."

yeah, fantasy land, doesn't work for physics

 

[Daveoc64]

And if you were able to travel back in time to 2000 and tell them about the iPhone they probably won't believe you because there's no magic wand and based on "industry projections" the iPhone is fantasy talk and doesn't work for physics

I don't see why not.

Nothing in the iPhone was particularly revolutionary. Taking components that exist and are already being used and putting them into a single device is not a miracle.

plenty of improvements yet to come in battery technology. and per the users posted above, the real issue will be scale and cost.

I didn't say anything about battery technology.

 

[unlimitedx]

I don't see why not.

Nothing in the iPhone was particularly revolutionary. Taking components that exist and are already being used and putting them into a single device is not a miracle.




I didn't say anything about battery technology.

By saying such a blanket statement about components means you are hardly familiar with semiconductors.

Battery technology, battery life, battery life innovation, we're still talking about battery. Your previous post is in response to my post regarding battery life.

 

[Daveoc64]

Battery technology, battery life, battery life innovation, we're still talking about battery. Your previous post is in response to my post regarding battery life.

No, my post was referring to CPUs and the roadmap that manufacturers have set out.

 

[jcpb]

But that battery gain was almost entirely based on the Haswell chip, built by Intel, which we knew was coming and was years in the making specifically built for long battery life.

The iPhone doesn't have a "Haswell" chip on the horizon to expect that type of battery jump. If anything Apple simply kept the battery size of the MacBook Airs the same (just like they basically will with the iPhone).

Actually, not quite. Battery life improvements are minimal if the only bit that was changed to be power efficient is the CPU. Bits and pieces taken verbatim from Anand's Haswell ULT review.

(power was knocked out while typing this, <3 UPS systems for my home network)

Using HIPM and DIPM, SSD controllers can do a good job of powering down big blocks of the controller however the SATA PHY can’t be powered down otherwise you risk losing communication with the drive itself. The device sleep spec calls for an out of band signal telling the SSD when it can go to sleep and when it can wake up. Since the signal is out of band, the SATA PHY doesn’t need to be active for communication, and thus the SATA PHY itself can power down.

In layman's terms, the entire system (minus the display, I don't think that part is changed on the Airs) has to be designed around lower power consumption - this has never been done before Haswell.

As for the iPhone getting improved battery numbers, that will require an abrupt design change. There is next to no improvement on the battery since iP4 because the entire phone is designed around it being as thin as possible, so the only way to change this is to scrap that completely and increase the thickness and/or overall size of the phone, in order to accommodate a larger battery.

Except, this isn't happening any time soon.

You need to be proficient in lots of areas to make a custom backside and a custom extended battery... all that to make the iPhone last longer. Battery sleeves, cases and external packs don't cut it, you need it to be internal, because you lose a lot of potential battery capacity by making it go through USB 5V first.

A lot of people say the SGS4 sucks. Well, if you want the phone to last longer between charges without turning off a bunch of things, extended batteries are the way to go. You can do it on the SGS4, but not the iPhone, that is a big deal.

 

[Moonjumper]

Research into battery technology has expanded and gone in new directions as the automotive industry seeks to make electric cars viable. Metal-Air, Metal-Liquid and several new materials show promise for new batteries, as do new approaches such as Cambridge Crude (an electrically charged goo that you pump in after the discharged goo is pumped out) and super-capacitors.

None have made it to market yet, but the sheer number of options increases the likelihood that something will be a big step forward.

 

[WiiDsmKR69]

But that battery gain was almost entirely based on the Haswell chip, built by Intel, which we knew was coming and was years in the making specifically built for long battery life.

The iPhone doesn't have a "Haswell" chip on the horizon to expect that type of battery jump. If anything Apple simply kept the battery size of the MacBook Airs the same (just like they basically will with the iPhone).

My opinion :

I disagree, at least somewhat. The Haswell chip would provide some power savings. But not an additional 5 hours. THere would be massive collaboration with hardware and software engineers to push the battery availability to the max.

This is shown in Mavericks, where power and efficiency levels are increased dramatically [at least this is what apple claims]

 

[Jimmy James]

Hope we see some battery breakthrough.
Like 75% of the space taken up inside the iphone is by the battery.
And in most cases it barely lasts a day for some.

Until 12 years ago my cell phone battery was bigger than the iPhone and the available talk time per charge was less than half as long.

The battery milestone has already arrived in increments.

 

[vistadude]

If motorola ever makes a good android phone that's not huge, they can prove good battery life can be had in a decent phone. They're already getting 3-4 days of use with their maxx phones.