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Originally posted by jrapczak
My encoding took 1 hour and 21 minutes on 15 minutes of DV footage. So finally I ask, is something wrong with my Mac? I am HONESTLY NOT SEEING ANY SPEED GAINS.

Well it was me that posted those results, and it was not DV footage it was pictures with dissolves and motion. Which preset did you use in compressor? was it 60 min mpeg2 fast? or not a preset at all. I will get some DV footage in my machine here and encode a 15 min sample and post results. They more than likely will not be as fast as my other project.
 
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
I'm a recent switcher, and I love my G5. Only problem w/ macs is there is too big of a jump between the "consumer" and
"pro" lines. Honestly, I'd never get anything from the consumer lines since they just aren't competitive enough... and completely non-upgradeable... now the G5s are nice... :)

In June, people were whining that the lines were too close in power and features. ;)

I believe that with most higher end creative applications, we'll see PPC970 enhancements so that the G5 looks much better than it does now. Obviously, things that weren't AltiVec-enhanced should look better already, just because the floating point is so much faster. If things have been compiled with gcc, they will look better when compiled with the latest version.
 
Originally posted by -hh
And how long does this really take? Let's not forget installing the OS onto the hard drive, etc, etc.

For the labor cost, let's assume $100/hour, to make sure that we get a fully burdened generic Corporate cost.

And if it requires the Purchasing department to make multiple awards, that's another few hundred bucks in hidden costs to account for there.

For that matter, he didn't budget anything for Windows for that computer either. You ARE buying a copy of Windows for it, aren't you, jrapczak? :eek:

[edit] Oops, he said he uses Linux. Now the story gets even weirder - I didn't know you could get Maya and Shake for Linux.
 
Originally posted by cubist
For that matter, he didn't budget anything for Windows for that computer either. You ARE buying a copy of Windows for it, aren't you, jrapczak? :eek:

[edit] Oops, he said he uses Linux. Now the story gets even weirder - I didn't know you could get Maya and Shake for Linux.

I think he's running Linux... If he was running XP Pro on it he could get it with the M/B for about $85.

Building your own workstation can save lots of money and give you much more power and it probably takes less than an hour.

I think he wants the Mac, just not right for this job.

Clones were the best thing to almost happen to the Mac platform. Unfortunately it wasn't in the best interest of Apple co.

He is wrong about one thing though, 64-bit computing will become mainstream within 2-years. AMD is putting a lot of pressuer on Intel. Intel didn't want to, but it's going to have to push up it's 64-bit desktop plans.
 
You're right, I DO want this Mac. I want it to work really bad, and I want it to be FAST! I'm not partial to any platform or OS - it's whatever helps me get the job done. All this marketing hype about "the worlds fastest desktop computer" and everything else really got my hopes up, along with the PRman tests and endorsements from a lot of prominent companies. But from what I can see, it just isn't there yet.

My preset for the MPEG-Encoding was 120-minute High-Quality.
 
Originally posted by jrapczak
My preset for the MPEG-Encoding was 120-minute High-Quality.

That also makes a big difference. That preset is a 2 pass VBR, and the one I did is a single pass. So, in thoery that would make my render time double for the same project. You should try the 60 minute fast preset, I bet you will get fast render time there with very little noticealbe quality loss,and the mpeg2 files will be smaller allowing you to put more footage on a DVD.
 
Re: This G5 is still too slow for the money

Originally posted by jrapczak
I'm sorry guys, I love a lot of things about this G5 but it's just too slow for the money. I was having some speed issues awhile back with software that was arguably not optimized for OS X and the G5, but recently I started using Shake 3 on the Mac and it's SO SLOW compared to Shake 2.5 on a slower-clocked PC...

No one in their right mind would buy a G5 right now in my industry...

The speed complaint about Shake on the Mac vs PC is pretty common.

Nonetheless, post-houses are switching in droves to OS X for compositing.

Why?

The licence for Shake under OS X is HALF the price of the linux/pc licence and the OS X rendering licences are FREE.

So for the price of a dual Xeon PC + Shake, you can buy TWO dual G5s running Shake... and use one as part of a render clust. That's going to be faster than your dual Xeon :)

There's more to cost/performance than just the hardware.

The only effects houses that seem to be not switching to Shake and OS X are the ones that can afford to code their own packages (Digital Domain, Industrial Light + Magic, Animal Logic).
 
Originally posted by jrapczak

My encoding took 1 hour and 21 minutes on 15 minutes of DV footage. So finally I ask, is something wrong with my Mac? I am HONESTLY NOT SEEING ANY SPEED GAINS. This encoding speed is on par with the 2000+ Athlon using TMPGEnc. I can honestly say that I expected the G5 to come out with a commanding lead in this test, but it hasn't! What's the deal?

2-Pass VBR with a high level of motion response. That's why it took so long :) You pay for MPEG encoding quality with time and lots of it on EITHER platform.
 
I think its time to sell...

Macs do hold their value quite nicely, if you are not satisfied with your machine, just bundle it on eBay and you will see you would only loose a couple a dollars, I posted my iBook and it fetched a reasonable price for a unit I purchased last november, if you are preocupied with speed and "getting the job done" then you are not getting the overall menatllity of obtaining an Apple computer, its not just a box that does the job! its the Overall experience of working with a modern operating system and having a piece of hardware that can be tailored to your needs and not just a box that can be found in any garbage bin anywhere. I have found many PC boxes in the street but never a Mac, try and sell any grey box on eBay. you would loose your patience and time. Benchmarks are posted all over the web about the G5s, I myself would like to get a 15'PB but reading some of the nuances and glitches I can postpone my purchase until revision B or when Panther ships with these units. You claim holds weak on the account that you needed to have educated yourself before buying any of these machines. you cannnot blame the machine, its you that needs to be addressed, if you are satisfied with working with a trincket windows box, then more power to you. What Apple offers is an opportunity to release you from being just another drone that needs to finish his or her job (you need to get this from the 1984 commercial), which is the general philosophy of Apple. Take action sell your unit an get a grey box of your convenience but dont make it seem like you have been duped!
 
the fastest computer...

WE ALL SHOULD KNOW BY NOW THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THE DP 2G G5!
FOR THOSE THAT HAVE THE SINGLE 1.6 AND 1.8 THE TITLE OF FASTEST COMPUTER DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU SORRY! time to save and get the real deal
 
Nonetheless, post-houses are switching in droves to OS X for compositing.

Why?

The licence for Shake under OS X is HALF the price of the linux/pc licence and the OS X rendering licences are FREE.

I'm sorry, this just isn't true about medium to large post houses (like us - any place that has a need for 10+ licenses). If you're paying full price for a Linux Shake license you're getting ripped off. At RFX in Hollywood Linux licenses are the same price as the OS X license if you buy at least 10. You don't have to buy 10 GUI licenses, either. You can buy any combination of GUI and command-line licenses for Shake. If you're buying 10 licenses or more, chances are you already have a renderfarm of some sort, and statistically it isn't a bunch of Xserves. You aren't going to replace your entire renderfarm with Xserves, because all of your software doesn't run on the Mac. Sure, you could buy Xserves with the money you save and have it be a dedicated Shake render cluster, but then you can only render on the small number of Xserves that you could actually afford with the little money you saved on your OS X render licenses. Linux Shake licenses work for both Linux and OS X, which is not true of the OS X licenses, so you're actually getting more for your money when you purchase Linux Shake licenses. So the fact that render licenses for OS X are free is a moot point.

its the Overall experience of working with a modern operating system and having a piece of hardware that can be tailored to your needs and not just a box that can be found in any garbage bin anywhere.

Fair enough, the whole Apple "thing" is much different than being a Linux user and having a "gray box". I enjoy the G5 from a usability and aesthetic standpoint more than any computer I have used to date. However, our clients aren't going to care how much we love our computers if we just can't get the job done as quickly as someone else and for less money.

You claim holds weak on the account that you needed to have educated yourself before buying any of these machines.

We bought the G5 with the Apple Pro card, giving us a 30-day test drive and the ability to return it with no penalty, so under those circumstances it made much more sense for us to actually get the G5 ourselves and run it through several tests and actually use it in our workflow, instead of relying on benchmarks posted on the web. I'm not bitter about this. I don't feel "duped". I'm merely reporting our analysis of the G5 for our pipeline, and it's not as fast in general purpose use as our Linux and NT machines. I just thought it was going to be faster. I WANTED it to be faster. So maybe I am bitter, in a way, that it isn't.

2-Pass VBR with a high level of motion response. That's why it took so long You pay for MPEG encoding quality with time and lots of it on EITHER platform.

Touche.

The final result is that we are going to reevalute the G5 for our production pipeline in Spring and see how the apps are coming along. Until then, since we want and prefer a Mac for video editing and DVD authoring, we are going to get a much more cost-effective Dual G4 to serve that purpose.
 
I do agree with you...

that when it comes to business matters the client will be dictating most of the efficiency, if you experience that any machine no matter what the platform is, if its faster than another then it only makes financial sense to go for the one that enables productivity, I speak out of my own experience of non-business, personal project oriented. Now these machines will eventually be more cost effective in a long-term goal. when 64 bit
OSs come around, and the Mgz myth will be put to death by a greater chip and the OS X architecture. The OS X vs W XP and the Moto vs Intel theme has been discussed here to no avail and it seems that all roads lead to these themes, if you look at productivity in terms of long oriented goals, take into account how many times have you re-install XP?, how many virus have you had to contend with? how many hours did you loose on account of an unstable OS? sum it up and look at in $ value. there has to be a balance I agree between Financial sensibility and aesthetic expression. what ever pattern is best suited for you only you know how it will affect you in the long run, but you need to step back and analyze these abstractions in order to really have concise options, eventually who ever makes the decisions will have to be confident in his or her final say-so.
and please disregard the teases about selling your machines, at the penalty of sounding obtuse I do really get the struggles of departments looking for the perfect balance of productivity and pleasure. no malice intended: Mario
 
jrapczak,

looking at your field and your location, would I be correct in guessing Rythmn & Hues is looking at G5s... :D

sorry, had to guess since you're in my area (plus they're big on Shake and using Linux boxes and I have friends working there)
 
one more thing on do-it-yourself PCs

I always felt comfortable with the fact that the manufacturers of my favourite OS know about my system configuration quite exactly - because the OS and the hardware comes from the same company. It's much easier for Apple to make their OS work on all relevant models than it is for Microsoft. (Please don't mention 10.2.8 right here.)

I consider this a major advantage.
 
Originally posted by Flowbee
So this is basically another "I-can-build-a-fast-PC-cheaper-than-I-can-buy-a-Mac" thread? Fascinating.

That's a bit unfair. When the G5's were announced, everybody was screaming for test results. When the first benchmark results came in, everyone wanted real-world tests done.

Now, when someone does some tests about his particular real-world situation, you dismiss them because the results aren't all that great and he mentions a pc is better at it?
 
Time and Money...

We have to step back and realize how Apple has used these two factors, If you look at how much people use their Lombards and Wall Sts laptops, how many people still get use of the B&W G3s
the design ideology has been one of Long term usage, look at how much Titanium laptops go for on auction and you will see that for the money these do retain it. people still use them way after they are discontinued, Im using a Blueberry imac DV that came out 3-4 years ago and its running smooth. I have heard others express that they thought they had purchased the fastest PC and a month later they look at Mgz specs on the wintel world and are floored, they dont understand that part of it is just one aspect of the processor and not necessarily an augmentation as a whole to their boxes, if you look at Apple, steadily they have upgraded their OS and so their peripherals such as USB 2.0 etc. So my point is that you may consider Time/money and performance right now in terms of speed but I invite you to change your perspective in seeing Time/money/performance in a period lets say 6-7 years where you will still have your G5 because new 64bit upgrades and superior inside craftsmanship because everything is been designed as a whole, so consider that and look at how may times you will have to change the inerds of a wintel machine in a period of 5 years or suffer its quick manufactured idiosyncracies?
 
Shake G5 Update comming soon!!!

Hey, it's true that the current versions of Shake run better on AMD/Intel hardware and Linux than the G5 and OSX-but not for long. At IBC Apple demoed a tweaked version of Shake for the G5 that was much faster than the same version running on a dual 3.06Ghz Xeon system. So for those people not satisfied with the current performance of FCP and Shake on the G5, software updates are coming down the pike that will give both programs quite a speed boost.

This comes from the Highend2d Shake Listserv:
At the IBC tradeshow in Amsterdam last month, Apple showed a technology demo of an optimized version of Shake running on a dual 2GHz G5. On average, this optimized version ran performance tests faster than Shake on a dual 3GHz Xeon system running RH linux. The performance tests used real-world scripts as well as individual node tests.
There is no release date set for this optimized version.
 
Originally posted by jrapczak
Okay, final question because I'm still not seeing some of this speed everyone is talking about:

Last night I did a test encoding MPEG-2 video through compressor. I was optimistic because someone in this thread had indicated that it had taken 15 minutes to encode 12 minutes of MPEG-2 out of Final Cut Pro on a dual 2.0, so I figured my single 1.8 wouldn't take longer than 30 minutes (assuming dual procs doesn't quite mean twice as much speed).

My encoding took 1 hour and 21 minutes on 15 minutes of DV footage. So finally I ask, is something wrong with my Mac? I am HONESTLY NOT SEEING ANY SPEED GAINS. This encoding speed is on par with the 2000+ Athlon using TMPGEnc. I can honestly say that I expected the G5 to come out with a commanding lead in this test, but it hasn't! What's the deal?

You may have something wrong, I can encode video fast as hell on my dual G5. I would think the 1.8's woudln't be that shappy.. When you start encoding do your hear the processor slew up? (Fans start really spinning fast..) What is your cpu running at during the encoding? How much memory do you have? My G5 kills my old Althon...
 
Re: the fastest computer...

Originally posted by Mlobo01
WE ALL SHOULD KNOW BY NOW THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THE DP 2G G5!
FOR THOSE THAT HAVE THE SINGLE 1.6 AND 1.8 THE TITLE OF FASTEST COMPUTER DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU SORRY! time to save and get the real deal

Real deal? If you don't do heavy encoding with your powermac, you will see negligable difference between the 1.8 and the dual G5, especially for games if you upgrade the 1.8 to a Radeon 9600 Pro.

Buy a 1.8 GHz G5, 40 gig iPod, more RAM... more bang for your buck and you won't feel so bad when the dual 2.0 is no longer top of the line :)
 
Re: Re: the fastest computer...

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Real deal? If you don't do heavy encoding with your powermac, you will see negligable difference between the 1.8 and the dual G5, especially for games if you upgrade the 1.8 to a Radeon 9600 Pro.

Buy a 1.8 GHz G5, 40 gig iPod, more RAM... more bang for your buck and you won't feel so bad when the dual 2.0 is no longer top of the line :)

You are right, for games this is no big difference its with the video card, but for rendering and encoding there is a HUGE difference. That is what this thread is about, the 1.8 doesn't seem to hold up to the dual 2 when it comes to high end video production.

P.S. the world's fastest personal computer would be the dual G5 since it is the fastest of them hence in my opinion as well making it the "real deal".
 
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