This is NOT Tiger, so get over it already!

[jbardi]

I have posted a portion of this in a different thread, but this is specific to the point.

In all of these forum threads I keep hearing people say, "This should have been kept the same", "That should not have been changed", "Why did they take away that feature", "How come I can't do things the way I use to do them in Tiger?". Uh, you are not running Tiger any more... you are running Leopard... it is NOT the same thing... it was not MEANT to be the same thing.. if it was, then there would not be a new version of the OS and simply updates to the old one.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out flaws and bugs, maybe suggesting an easier way to do things or adding options for ways to show or display things how they were in Tiger, but over all, GET OVER IT and Get it through your heads... THIS IS A NEW VERSION OF THE OPERATING SYTEM!!!

If you like Tiger so much, then why the heck did you shell out the money to upgrade. I have listened to these whining complaints since the 26th, and I'm sick of it. You can go back to Tiger or not, but either way, deal with it!

 

[Eluzion]

I think you totally missed the point.

Most people are wondering why they would remove something that had a whole lot more functionality than what they replaced it with? New is good, but it's also better if there's improved functionality behind it.

Biggest example is stacks. Neat, looks cute and all -- great job Apple, but you can't navigate through sub-folders or even have an option to revert to the normal menu style?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you want to add new stuff, there should be good reasoning behind it and it should not be any less functional than it previously was.

 

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

Most of the "why did they get rid of this"-s are about earlier versions of Beta, not Tiger. Also, the part of the point of updating an operating system is to build on good with more good and take out only bad. If people are complaining so much about things from Tiger not in Leopard it's probably because they are good. Also, specific examples would be nice. Otherwise, these folks are just expressing their feelings about the new operating system. If that bothers you, don't read it.

I think you totally missed the point.

Most people are wondering why they would remove something that had a whole lot more functionality than what they replaced it with? New is good, but it's also better if there's improved functionality behind it.

Biggest example is stacks. Neat, looks cute and all -- great job Apple, but you can't navigate through sub-folders or even have an option to revert to the normal menu style?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you want to add new stuff, there should be good reasoning behind it and it should not be any less functional than it previously was.

I didn't know that about Stacks. I thought based on what I've seen in videos and pictures that Stacks were made from multiple files dragged into the Dock while if you dragged an actual folder it acted the same as in Tiger. I was looking forward to Stacks...but that kinda ruins my idea of what they were. I'd like to see it in person.

 

[Eluzion]

That's what I think most of us thought. I mean, they call it "stacks", only makes sense. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

 

[vansouza]

Thank you

I have posted a portion of this in a different thread, but this is specific to the point.

In all of these forum threads I keep hearing people say, "This should have been kept the same", "That should not have been changed", "Why did they take away that feature", "How come I can't do things the way I use to do them in Tiger?". Uh, you are not running Tiger any more... you are running Leopard... it is NOT the same thing... it was not MEANT to be the same thing.. if it was, then there would not be a new version of the OS and simply updates to the old one.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out flaws and bugs, maybe suggesting an easier way to do things or adding options for ways to show or display things how they were in Tiger, but over all, GET OVER IT and Get it through your heads... THIS IS A NEW VERSION OF THE OPERATING SYTEM!!!

If you like Tiger so much, then why the heck did you shell out the money to upgrade. I have listened to these whining complaints since the 26th, and I'm sick of it. You can go back to Tiger or not, but either way, deal with it!

Thank you for saying it so well, so tired of the moaning about blue dots instead of black triangles; and all the rest. So Thank You.

 

[siurpeeman]

I didn't know that about Stacks. I thought based on what I've seen in videos and pictures that Stacks were made from multiple files dragged into the Dock while if you dragged an actual folder it acted the same as in Tiger. I was looking forward to Stacks...but that kinda ruins my idea of what they were. I'd like to see it in person.

the wonderful thing about folders in the dock are that they are all now spring-loaded.

 

[jbardi]

I think you totally missed the point.

Most people are wondering why they would remove something that had a whole lot more functionality than what they replaced it with? New is good, but it's also better if there's improved functionality behind it.

Biggest example is stacks. Neat, looks cute and all -- great job Apple, but you can't navigate through sub-folders or even have an option to revert to the normal menu style?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you want to add new stuff, there should be good reasoning behind it and it should not be any less functional than it previously was.

But you are missing the point as well... YOU want that feature, YOU don't think it should have been changed, YOU think it was useful, YOU think something was better... but not everyone sees things the same.

Many, many people think stacks are the greatest thing, it is just those that used folders in the dock previously that see it as a feature loss, but that does not mean that because it was useful to you, that everyone misses that feature, or even knew it existed.

You can not please all the people all the time. I use to use folders in my dock for traversing subfolders as well, but its not there anymore, and outside of suggesting to Apple that they put it back in, I deal with it, and I find a new way to navigate.

Ultimately, one persons opinion on the value of a feature does not mean the feature was valuable to most people. Since we do not know that, whining about it does nothing, at least here. Whine to apple, but don't make a statement that "STACKS RUINED PRODUCTIVITY AND BECAUSE OF THIS LACK OF FEATURE I AM GOING BACK TO TIGER UNTIL IT IS FIXED"

Come on, you are going to tell me that something that may not even have been a feature, but rather a side effect of placing a folder in the dock is a reason to decide on one version of the OS over the other?

I just don't get it, so fine... you want to complain, be my guest, but not everyone shares your belief on how valuable these missing features are.

I would much rather hear talk about problems and bug fixes than all of these threads being filled with nostalgic crying about lost features in their beloved OS. Tiger runs perfectly, and has done us all well, so you say why fix what ain't broken? I agree... if Tiger is not broken, then leave leopard to those that like it, and re-install what is "not broken".

And that, is my opinion, and as they say, we all have one!

 

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

the wonderful thing about folders in the dock are that they are all now spring-loaded.

When I read that a few days ago I was excited about that as well, but the new revelation about not being able to browse folders in the Dock anymore kind of outweighs that.

But you are missing the point as well... YOU want that feature, YOU don't think it should have been changed, YOU think it was useful, YOU think something was better... but not everyone sees things the same.

Many, many people think stacks are the greatest thing, it is just those that used folders in the dock previously that see it as a feature loss, but that does not mean that because it was useful to you, that everyone misses that feature, or even knew it existed.

You can not please all the people all the time. I use to use folders in my dock for traversing subfolders as well, but its not there anymore, and outside of suggesting to Apple that they put it back in, I deal with it, and I find a new way to navigate.

Ultimately, one persons opinion on the value of a feature does not mean the feature was valuable to most people. Since we do not know that, whining about it does nothing, at least here. Whine to apple, but don't make a statement that "STACKS RUINED PRODUCTIVITY AND BECAUSE OF THIS LACK OF FEATURE I AM GOING BACK TO TIGER UNTIL IT IS FIXED"

Come on, you are going to tell me that something that may not even have been a feature, but rather a side effect of placing a folder in the dock is a reason to decide on one version of the OS over the other?

I just don't get it, so fine... you want to complain, be my guest, but not everyone shares your belief on how valuable these missing features are.

I would much rather hear talk about problems and bug fixes than 90% of the threads being filled with nostalgic crying about lost features in their beloved OS. Tiger runs perfectly, and has done us all well, so you say why fix what ain't broken? I agree... if Tiger is not broken, then leave leopard to those that like it, and re-install what is "not broken".!

And that, is my opinion, and as they say, we all have one!

I'll agree that it's kind of pointless to complain about things that don't affect function (like the blue dots and clear menu bar) but being able to browse folders in the dock was a HUGE bonus for mac. It was the thing we can point to the start menu in Windows and be like, "See? Our dock can do that but better! We can browse our entire computer or just see our Applications folder with one right click!" Functionality of the Dock just shrunk by at least fifty percent. Seriously.

 

[sananda]

And that, is my opinion, and as they say, we all have one!

thank you for expressing it. but perhaps you will allow others to also express their opinions (whatever they may be).

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I agree. 10.5 generally is a nice evolution of the Mac OS X, but Stacks is a disappointment. It is a step back from efficiency. I won't restate what others have said about it, but I would agree.

I remember when the Dock was only at the bottom in OS X 10.0 (may have been the public beta). There was a lot of hand wringing about not being able to pin the dock to either the left or right side (there were hacks). Eventually Apple listened and incorporated pinning the dock to the sides.

So hopefully Apple will take these comments about Stacks to heart and either make it more useful or allow it to be turned off in favor of holding down the mouse on a dock folder 10.4 style.

 

[jbardi]

thank you for expressing it. but perhaps you will allow others to also express their opinions (whatever they may be).

Uh, thats the whole point of this! I let everyone express their opinions for the past 2 days straight, and I read them all... one after another after another... and, now I am giving my opinion. If people would start stating things as "their opinion" rather than "facts" then I may not take it so badly. Chupa Chupa is a perfect example:

I agree. 10.5 generally is a nice evolution of the Mac OS X, but Stacks is a disappointment. It is a step back from efficiency.

That is not an opinion, that is stated as "FACT". I don't need a spokesman trying to speak for the rest of us by stating it as a done deal. "IT IS A DISAPPOINTMENT", "IT IS A STEP BACK FROM EFFIENCY."

Try this on for size, "I think it is less efficient.", or "I think it is a disappointment."

All too often, everyone wants to be the mouth piece for the community, and frankly, we don't all buy into your assumption of "feature loss".

That being said, can we finally get on to information about bugs and fixes? Isn't that more productive than negative complaints?

 

[Sun Baked]

Spring loaded folders... and a bunch of other highly missed OS 9 features, which people complained about and got readded to the OS.

So complaining is good, though the ability to do GUI tweaks are likely not going to show up. Since they put that forth for an OS upgrade, and consistency won out.

 

[jbardi]

Well this has definitely turned into something more than its original intent, so I'm finally done with the back and forth banter!

 

[armani]

Jbardi, do you work for Apple by any chance, you sound like you do.... and YOU let everyone express their opinions???? who are you?

Apple should have said on their web-site "don't buy it until you see it" and not advertize it like it is a greatest OS in the universe and you shall buy it now. I was one of many who bought Leopard in advance and I wish I waited. But on the other hand..... I need to use bootcamp, one of the reasons I bought new iMac. But as far as I know bootcamp beta will stop working in december, so I have to have Leopard. Somebody mentioned that Apple becomes like MS and I think it is the case. Their stocks are great, so they can do whatever they want now.

Mainly I like Leopard, with many but's and I still can not understand why not let people to choose different options, transperant bar/solid bar, bright navy blue highlight or whatever color. Yes you can not please everyone, but you can give people a choice. What is wrong with that? Yes, stack are great, but why it is sluggish on almost brand new machine (iMac 24"), isn't it powerfull enough??? It is very annoying in grid mode. If it all worked fine I would not say a word. And I did clean install, after archive&install.

Yes, there will be fixes, but Apple wants our money now. How about we pay when it works fine - no-no....

 

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

Apple should have said on their web-site "don't buy it until you see it" and not advertize it like it is a greatest OS in the universe and you shall buy it now. I was one of many who bought Leopard in advance and I wish I waited. But on the other hand..... I need to use bootcamp, one of the reasons I bought new iMac. But as far as I know bootcamp beta will stop working in december, so I have to have Leopard. Somebody mentioned that Apple becomes like MS and I think it is the case. Their stocks are great, so they can do whatever they want now.

Mainly I like Leopard, but I still can not understand why not let people to choose different options, transperant bar/solid bar, bright navy blue highlight or whatever color. Yes you can not please everyone, but you can give people a choice. What is wrong with that?

No one really forced you to buy it before you tried it. That's just bad consumerism (is that a word?). No one said that Leopard has *everything* you liked from Tiger and that everything new it brings is perfect. They showed you what it was like the best they could, and the rest you really had to see for yourself. I'm disappointed about Stacks, but I didn't buy it! I thought it was one way, but I knew I couldn't be too sure since I haven't used it myself. I just wish there was an Apple Store near me.

 

[Eluzion]

Yes you can not please everyone, but you can give people a choice. What is wrong with that?

Not with Apple. It's their way, or the highway.

I completely agree with you though. It's pretty ridiculous to make such simple things not an option. Adding the list option to "view as" in the stacks would make everyone happy and probably takes five minutes to implement. Same with an adjustable opacity for the menu bar.

But like the original poster said, this is NOT TIGER IT IS A NEW VERSION OF THE OPERATING SYSTEM, therefore, functionality that was removed, we just have to find ways around it!

Hehe. I don't care who you are but if you think clicking a Stack, clicking a folder to open a Finder window then navigating through the Finder to simply navigate to a sub-folder is even equally or more productive than having a menu option that can view sub-folders within the menu.... I don't know what to say. It's such a simple option. I'm sure Apple will re-add it in a future update.

 

[anjinha]

Jbardi, do you work for Apple by any chance, you sound like you work there....

Apple should have said on their web-site "don't buy it until you see it" and not advertize it like it is a greatest OS in the universe and you shall buy it now. I was one of many who bought Leopard in advance and I wish I waited. But on the other hand..... I need to use bootcamp, one of the reasons I bought new iMac. But as far as I know bootcamp beta will stop working in december, so I have to have Leopard. Somebody mentioned that Apple becomes like MS and I think it is the case. Their stocks are great, so they can do whatever they want now.

Mainly I like Leopard, but I still can not understand why not let people to choose different options, transperant bar/solid bar, bright navy blue highlight or whatever color. Yes you can not please everyone, but you can give people a choice. What is wrong with that? Yes, stack are great, but why it is sluggish on almost brand new machine (iMac 24"), isn't it powerfull enough??? It is very annoying in grid mode. If it warked fine I would not say a word. And I did clean install, after archive&install.

You don't have to buy Leopard. You can just buy Bootcamp.

 

[sananda]

J
Mainly I like Leopard, but I still can not understand why not let people to choose different options, transperant bar/solid bar, bright navy blue highlight or whatever color.

because people would do things that don't look good.

 

[vansouza]

How not...?

When I read that a few days ago I was excited about that as well, but the new revelation about not being able to browse folders in the Dock anymore kind of outweighs that.

I can open folders in the Documents stack... am I missing something?

 

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

Not with Apple. It's their way, or the highway.

I completely agree with you though. It's pretty ridiculous to make such simple things not an option. Adding the list option to "view as" in the stacks would make everyone happy and probably takes five minutes to implement. Same with an adjustable opacity for the menu bar.

Instead of an option for "view as," I'd like to see Stacks work how I thought they did before my bubble was burst. It looked from the WWDC video that Stacks were created by dragging multiple *files* from anywhere on the computer (not just from in the same folder) into the Dock, *but* if you drag an actual folder into the Dock it works like it did before Leopard. I don't think they demonstrated the second part in the WWDC video from a year ago, but I assumed it was so because of the way they demonstrated the first part (dragging just files). My bad.

 

[jbardi]

I don't think it is more productive... I agree, I think the old way was more productive for ME. Not everyone. My point is, this is a new OS, love it or hate it, it is a completely new version of the OS, not simply Microsoft trying to duplicate Mac OS. If it was, there would be no difference between Vista and Leopard and no reason what so ever to upgrade from Tiger. One poster actually had the nerve to say that any software supported in a pervious version of OS X should continue to be supported in every following version of OS X because they are only point upgrades and not whole number upgrades.... like Leopard is just a bug fix patch for Tiger.

Not all features are going to carry over from one to the next... you try your best for backward computability, but some features that certain people could not live without are replaced by features that others will soon think they can not live without... it is a cycle, and we all navigated fine before the dock feature ever existed to traverse subfolders.

But I have to say, don't blame apple because you bought leopard... you complain about things having to be their way or the highway, yet you blindly buy their product like a sheep because their Intro movie looked cool on their website. Come on, don't blame them because you had higher expectations for a purchase you are not completely happy with.

 

[armani]

No one really forced you to buy it before you tried it. That's just bad consumerism (is that a word?). No one said that Leopard has *everything* you liked from Tiger and that everything new it brings is perfect. They showed you what it was like the best they could, and the rest you really had to see for yourself. I'm disappointed about Stacks, but I didn't buy it! I thought it was one way, but I knew I couldn't be too sure since I haven't used it myself. I just wish there was an Apple Store near me.

Next time I will make sure I take your advice. I just believed everything would be fine, as I had fond feeling toward that company.

Apple's way or the highway ..... that is exactly right. You think it is the right way to keep their fans? And I mean FANS, this is how Apple survived, thanks to people who stayed with Apple. PC fellows probably claping their hands now.....

 

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

I can open folders in the Documents stack... am I missing something?

What I'm talking about is navigating entire folders throught the Dock, like so:



I haven't used Leopard, but I'm being told that you can't do that anymore.

 

[0098386]

What is Leopard missing? It seems to be Tiger part 2 to me.

I love the system so far. Between Leopard and XP I'm sorted for my computing needs

 

[motulist]

Please don't feed the troll.

This whole thread was designed just to churn up controversy. He's a newbie here and the first thing he does is complain about other people's posts here. If you're a newbie here and you don't like the type of posts you see in the MR forums, then go somewhere else.