MP All Models This new Mac Pro makes me really really happy

Fried Chicken

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 11, 2011
567
589
i don’t know why, but something deeply visceral was woken up with this Mac Pro.

Apple finally offers something balls to the wall awesome, the kind of thing I got super excited about when watching Steve Jobs speak about the Powermac G5. Something is right with the world again. It just makes me really really happy. It sounds so stupid right, but it somehow goes back to apple’s fundamental place as a *computer* company, building the best computers in the world.
 

startergo

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2018
1,130
420
I hope that 1K stand is a brilliant sales strategy:
Announcing it for 1K and when the time comes selling it for 500$. Tim will attract so many customers;)
 
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Parzival

macrumors newbie
May 12, 2013
14
20
i don’t know why, but something deeply visceral was woken up with this Mac Pro.

Apple finally offers something balls to the wall awesome, the kind of thing I got super excited about when watching Steve Jobs speak about the Powermac G5. Something is right with the world again. It just makes me really really happy. It sounds so stupid right, but it somehow goes back to apple’s fundamental place as a *computer* company, building the best computers in the world.

As someone who works in audio production and was looking forward to finally getting a new Mac Pro, this machine seems to be the worst of both worlds for me... meaning I will end up paying a lot of money for stuff I don't need.

A better proportioned Apple desktop alternative for the new Mac Pro does not currently exist and not everybody wants an all in one (Mac Mini/iMac/iMac Pro).

It does not have the role/price point the Mac Pro historically had.
In short, this sucks for me.
 

TimTheSheriff

macrumors newbie
Oct 11, 2017
8
7
NW Florida
As someone who works in audio production and was looking forward to finally getting a new Mac Pro, this machine seems to be the worst of both worlds for me... meaning I will end up paying a lot of money for stuff I don't need.

A better proportioned Apple desktop alternative for the new Mac Pro does not currently exist and not everybody wants an all in one (Mac Mini/iMac/iMac Pro).

It does not have the role/price point the Mac Pro historically had.
In short, this sucks for me.
What are you thinking that you’ll do? What would your ideal Mac Pro be like?
 
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theluggage

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2011
4,044
2,722
Apple finally offers something balls to the wall awesome, the kind of thing I got super excited about when watching Steve Jobs speak about the Powermac G5.
The Powermac G5 had a (then) new PPC processor which (arguably, at least) outperformed anything Intel had to offer at the time. It had a beautiful, custom-designed aluminium case with tool-free access and quiet running - at a time when PCs almost universally came in boring beige boxes made out of finger-shredding mild steel. It cost from $2400 (or $3340 after inflation - not that inflation is particularly applicable to computer equipment) - or $200 more than the highest spec iMac at the time.

In 2019, the only real architectural difference between the new Mac Pro and a bog-standard Xeon workstation is the T2 chip (...bringing lots of physical security features that may be invaluable on a laptop or tablet that you might leave on the train but, on a workstation, mainly just tie you into using Apple's overpriced SSD blades). The MPX slots are a neater alternative to having flying power and DisplayPort leads hanging from your PCIe cards (although the only reason you need the internal DP-to-Thunderbolt leads is that only Apple makes/endorses high-end displays that can't just plug directly into the DP output on your GPU) - but you're going to pay for that little bit of neatness in the form of a limited range of MPX cards at inflated prices (because a Mac-only MPX module is always going to cost more to make than a generic PCIe card). What is neat about MPX is the way that the slots can also be used for standard PCIe cards - but since every other Xeon tower can take standard PCIe cards that's what XKCD would call Asbestos-free breakfast cereal.

Apart from that, most of what Apple demoed wasn't Apple technology but Intel and AMD technology that will be coming to a beige box near you by the time the new Mac Pro ships. Afterburner? Brings Apple's Pro apps into line with other pro apps for which hardware acceleration is available.

8 PCIe slots? You can get specialist PC motherboards with 11 x16 PCIe slots (for serious GPU-powered computing... and if the cheaper options only have 4 that's because its all that most people - even those buying Xeon workstations - need) .

28 CPU cores? You can already get Xeon towers that can take dual 28-core CPUs. Of course, the latest, only-just-launched Xeon-W CPUs aren't showing up in the online configurators, yet, but they will by the time the MP is in the shops. Anyway, if you're the sort of super-demanding user that is likely to be buying the higher-spec Mac Pros your alternative is not going to be buying off-the-peg from HP.

That brings us to the entry-level: $6000 for a Xeon tower with a non-user-upgradeable 8-core CPU (so, no, you're not going to buy this model if you also want to fill those PCIe slots with high-end goodies), the same GPU as the high-end iMac (not Pro) and a 256GB SSD that's going to be a bit tight by the time you install some Pro apps and (e.g.) sound libraries. The iMac Pro has a better spec and includes $1000 worth of display... You're basically paying $2000 for more PCIe slots than you need, because the only alternative that Apple offers is none.

Even if you think the fully-expanded monster that they were showing off at WWDC is something special that true pros will pay the price for, the entry-level Mac Pro is not that system and is still nearly twice the price of previous entry-level Mac Pros. That's a massive slap in the face for people who previously bought Mac Pros because they wanted a moderately powerful, expandable desktop.

Sorry - but if you take off your rose-tinted specs, the new Mac Pro is a cynical attempt to wring more money out of customers who are so committed to FCPX or Logic that its cheaper to just shell out for overpriced hardware than bear the costs of re-training and re-tooling. This isn't a new dawn for Apple - its more like Apple seeing how many fish they can pull out of a shrinking pond before it dries up.
 

safari70

macrumors newbie
Jan 10, 2006
15
11
ON
With time, there could be a trickle down effect that results in a mid-range Mac that offers some of the tech in the nMP at a more sensible price - if not mistaken, I even believe one of the Apple execs alluded to it in an interview (couldn’t find the link)...
 

Manzanito

macrumors 6502
Apr 9, 2010
344
395
That brings us to the entry-level: $6000 for a Xeon tower with a non-user-upgradeable 8-core CPU (so, no, you're not going to buy this model if you also want to fill those PCIe slots with high-end goodies), the same GPU as the high-end iMac (not Pro) and a 256GB SSD that's going to be a bit tight by the time you install some Pro apps and (e.g.) sound libraries. The iMac Pro has a better spec and includes $1000 worth of display... You're basically paying $2000 for more PCIe slots than you need, because the only alternative that Apple offers is none.
Are you sure the cpu is not user upgradable?
 

redheeler

macrumors 604
Oct 17, 2014
7,411
6,978
The Powermac G5 had a (then) new PPC processor which (arguably, at least) outperformed anything Intel had to offer at the time. It had a beautiful, custom-designed aluminium case with tool-free access and quiet running - at a time when PCs almost universally came in boring beige boxes made out of finger-shredding mild steel. It cost from $2400 (or $3340 after inflation - not that inflation is particularly applicable to computer equipment) - or $200 more than the highest spec iMac at the time.

In 2019, the only real architectural difference between the new Mac Pro and a bog-standard Xeon workstation is the T2 chip (...bringing lots of physical security features that may be invaluable on a laptop or tablet that you might leave on the train but, on a workstation, mainly just tie you into using Apple's overpriced SSD blades). The MPX slots are a neater alternative to having flying power and DisplayPort leads hanging from your PCIe cards (although the only reason you need the internal DP-to-Thunderbolt leads is that only Apple makes/endorses high-end displays that can't just plug directly into the DP output on your GPU) - but you're going to pay for that little bit of neatness in the form of a limited range of MPX cards at inflated prices (because a Mac-only MPX module is always going to cost more to make than a generic PCIe card). What is neat about MPX is the way that the slots can also be used for standard PCIe cards - but since every other Xeon tower can take standard PCIe cards that's what XKCD would call Asbestos-free breakfast cereal.

Apart from that, most of what Apple demoed wasn't Apple technology but Intel and AMD technology that will be coming to a beige box near you by the time the new Mac Pro ships. Afterburner? Brings Apple's Pro apps into line with other pro apps for which hardware acceleration is available.

8 PCIe slots? You can get specialist PC motherboards with 11 x16 PCIe slots (for serious GPU-powered computing... and if the cheaper options only have 4 that's because its all that most people - even those buying Xeon workstations - need) .

28 CPU cores? You can already get Xeon towers that can take dual 28-core CPUs. Of course, the latest, only-just-launched Xeon-W CPUs aren't showing up in the online configurators, yet, but they will by the time the MP is in the shops. Anyway, if you're the sort of super-demanding user that is likely to be buying the higher-spec Mac Pros your alternative is not going to be buying off-the-peg from HP.

That brings us to the entry-level: $6000 for a Xeon tower with a non-user-upgradeable 8-core CPU (so, no, you're not going to buy this model if you also want to fill those PCIe slots with high-end goodies), the same GPU as the high-end iMac (not Pro) and a 256GB SSD that's going to be a bit tight by the time you install some Pro apps and (e.g.) sound libraries. The iMac Pro has a better spec and includes $1000 worth of display... You're basically paying $2000 for more PCIe slots than you need, because the only alternative that Apple offers is none.

Even if you think the fully-expanded monster that they were showing off at WWDC is something special that true pros will pay the price for, the entry-level Mac Pro is not that system and is still nearly twice the price of previous entry-level Mac Pros. That's a massive slap in the face for people who previously bought Mac Pros because they wanted a moderately powerful, expandable desktop.

Sorry - but if you take off your rose-tinted specs, the new Mac Pro is a cynical attempt to wring more money out of customers who are so committed to FCPX or Logic that its cheaper to just shell out for overpriced hardware than bear the costs of re-training and re-tooling. This isn't a new dawn for Apple - its more like Apple seeing how many fish they can pull out of a shrinking pond before it dries up.
Excellent analysis. Only issue I have with it is that, judging from the images on the website, the new Mac Pro CPU is almost certainly socketed and possible to upgrade without too much hassle. This wasn't true with the early Power Mac G5s, the CPU you got was the one you were stuck with.

The OP has a point, it's good to see Apple innovating with the Mac again regardless of who the innovation is aimed at. But this Mac Pro is ignoring most of the segment of users that bought the single-processor G5s or quad-core Mac Pros because of price, expandability and more modest usage requirements, there's no doubt about that.

Apple's answer to this segment is to get a Mac mini with soldered in CPU + SSD (no 8-core i9 option as found in the iMac, no internal PCIe slots, restricted CPU cooling) and pair it with an eGPU; or go home.
 

filterdecay

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
131
102
Are you sure the cpu is not user upgradable?
Is that something they could tie to the t2 chip?
[doublepost=1560615484][/doublepost]Yeah a Mac mini is 2k 3 slot pcie expansion is $1000. 1u rack with 2 more pcie slots is $1000 more. Egypt is $500 There is your “cheap” Mac Pro. $4500. But it’s a locked in system. Waiting to spend $2000 more for a Mac mini you hope works with all that outboard expansion.
 

thevault

macrumors regular
Feb 11, 2019
118
227
Mars
As someone in the audio/cinema production I welcome the new MP but I would like more details on components and not disinformation related to price.:rolleyes: Also, since the 7.1MP is not released until September there's a chance the base model might be updated with additional HD=1TB or 64GB of ram....:D

Why don't the people complaining about price purchase the 6.1MP for cost savings?:rolleyes: Even a MP 2012 if your just running audio works great:apple:
 

bookemdano

macrumors 65816
Jul 29, 2011
1,211
701
As someone in the audio/cinema production I welcome the new MP but I would like more details on components and not disinformation related to price.:rolleyes: Also, since the 7.1MP is not released until September there's a chance the base model might be updated with additional HD=1TB or 64GB of ram....:D

Why don't the people complaining about price purchase the 6.1MP for cost savings?:rolleyes: Even a MP 2012 if your just running audio works great:apple:
The 6,1 is 7-year-old tech at this point, and has very little guarantee of future macOS compatibility (hopefully 1-3 more versions but all it would take is one CPU vulnerability Intel decides not to patch on Ivy Bridge-era processors to send it out to the doghouse with the cMP). Also, it's only barely upgradeable, and most importantly its GPUs are proprietary and prone to failure. If it were $1000 that would be one thing, but they're still 2x+ that.
 
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Fried Chicken

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 11, 2011
567
589
The Powermac G5 had a (then) new PPC processor which (arguably, at least) outperformed anything Intel had to offer at the time. It had a beautiful, custom-designed aluminium case with tool-free access and quiet running - at a time when PCs almost universally came in boring beige boxes made out of finger-shredding mild steel. It cost from $2400 (or $3340 after inflation - not that inflation is particularly applicable to computer equipment) - or $200 more than the highest spec iMac at the time.

In 2019, the only real architectural difference between the new Mac Pro and a bog-standard Xeon workstation is the T2 chip (...bringing lots of physical security features that may be invaluable on a laptop or tablet that you might leave on the train but, on a workstation, mainly just tie you into using Apple's overpriced SSD blades). The MPX slots are a neater alternative to having flying power and DisplayPort leads hanging from your PCIe cards (although the only reason you need the internal DP-to-Thunderbolt leads is that only Apple makes/endorses high-end displays that can't just plug directly into the DP output on your GPU) - but you're going to pay for that little bit of neatness in the form of a limited range of MPX cards at inflated prices (because a Mac-only MPX module is always going to cost more to make than a generic PCIe card). What is neat about MPX is the way that the slots can also be used for standard PCIe cards - but since every other Xeon tower can take standard PCIe cards that's what XKCD would call Asbestos-free breakfast cereal.

Apart from that, most of what Apple demoed wasn't Apple technology but Intel and AMD technology that will be coming to a beige box near you by the time the new Mac Pro ships. Afterburner? Brings Apple's Pro apps into line with other pro apps for which hardware acceleration is available.

8 PCIe slots? You can get specialist PC motherboards with 11 x16 PCIe slots (for serious GPU-powered computing... and if the cheaper options only have 4 that's because its all that most people - even those buying Xeon workstations - need) .

28 CPU cores? You can already get Xeon towers that can take dual 28-core CPUs. Of course, the latest, only-just-launched Xeon-W CPUs aren't showing up in the online configurators, yet, but they will by the time the MP is in the shops. Anyway, if you're the sort of super-demanding user that is likely to be buying the higher-spec Mac Pros your alternative is not going to be buying off-the-peg from HP.

That brings us to the entry-level: $6000 for a Xeon tower with a non-user-upgradeable 8-core CPU (so, no, you're not going to buy this model if you also want to fill those PCIe slots with high-end goodies), the same GPU as the high-end iMac (not Pro) and a 256GB SSD that's going to be a bit tight by the time you install some Pro apps and (e.g.) sound libraries. The iMac Pro has a better spec and includes $1000 worth of display... You're basically paying $2000 for more PCIe slots than you need, because the only alternative that Apple offers is none.

Even if you think the fully-expanded monster that they were showing off at WWDC is something special that true pros will pay the price for, the entry-level Mac Pro is not that system and is still nearly twice the price of previous entry-level Mac Pros. That's a massive slap in the face for people who previously bought Mac Pros because they wanted a moderately powerful, expandable desktop.

Sorry - but if you take off your rose-tinted specs, the new Mac Pro is a cynical attempt to wring more money out of customers who are so committed to FCPX or Logic that its cheaper to just shell out for overpriced hardware than bear the costs of re-training and re-tooling. This isn't a new dawn for Apple - its more like Apple seeing how many fish they can pull out of a shrinking pond before it dries up.
This is the first user upgradable mac in almost 10 years. I agree almost completely with the flaws you list, but this means that apple will only be able to IOSify their operating system so much, because people will need the user upgradability.
 

barmann

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2010
922
615
Germany
Another MP 7.1 thread ?
If you are happy, can't you just share that in an existing thread, or on Twitter or such ?
 

ct2k7

macrumors 603
Aug 29, 2008
5,908
392
London
Are you sure the cpu is not user upgradable?
Is that something they could tie to the t2 chip?
[doublepost=1560615484][/doublepost]Yeah a Mac mini is 2k 3 slot pcie expansion is $1000. 1u rack with 2 more pcie slots is $1000 more. Egypt is $500 There is your “cheap” Mac Pro. $4500. But it’s a locked in system. Waiting to spend $2000 more for a Mac mini you hope works with all that outboard expansion.
The CPU isn’t tied to the chip.

In the VR demos they had at WWDC, they Xeon looked like it was socketed, and when I asked if it was user replaceable, one guy said it was likely replaceable but not user replaceable (e.g has a void sticker), the other guy said it wasn’t user replaceable (same thing) and one lady didn’t know.

So.. it could be replaceable.
 
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redheeler

macrumors 604
Oct 17, 2014
7,411
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Well. When September arrives, that’s when many people will be shopping for that new mac pro. For those who can’t afford it, wait till 1-2 years and maybe it will be affordable. Mac pro is mac pro.
Easily 3-4 years before the base 7,1 becomes affordable (meaning readily available for under $3K used), considering the massive generational and pricing gap between the Mac Pro 7,1 and its nearest feature equivalent (Mac Pro 5,1), and the infrequency of Mac Pro refreshes which means it'll either still be a current model or only one generation behind.
 

filterdecay

macrumors regular
Jul 7, 2017
131
102
Easily 3-4 years before the base 7,1 becomes affordable (meaning readily available for under $3K used), considering the massive generational and pricing gap between the Mac Pro 7,1 and its nearest feature equivalent (Mac Pro 5,1), and the infrequency of Mac Pro refreshes which means it'll either still be a current model or only one generation behind.
Doubt you will see a 50% drop in 3-4 years.
 
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theluggage

macrumors 601
Jul 29, 2011
4,044
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Only issue I have with it is that, judging from the images on the website, the new Mac Pro CPU is almost certainly socketed and possible to upgrade without too much hassle.
Sorry - what I meant is "not officially user upgradeable" - as in "bye-bye warranty/Applecare/Service contract" if you try - not advisable on a $6000 machine (which probably belongs to your employer or leasing company...).
[doublepost=1560634482][/doublepost]
and when I asked if it was user replaceable, one guy said it was likely replaceable but not user replaceable (e.g has a void sticker), the other guy said it wasn’t user replaceable (same thing) and one lady didn’t know.
Yeah - that's what I meant by "not user replaceable". Not many people are going to try that until its well and truly second hand and out-of-warranty. Getting the CPU in the socket is the nerve-wracking part of building a PC (not because its particularly hard, but the consequences of getting it wrong are expensive...)