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those apple music comercials suck!

I think the ads are meant to be a bit ambiguous. They don't give you any details about how to get songs for 99 cents. They don't show the iPod very clearly. I think they want to make people curious. Curious enough to visit applemusic.com. I don't think any of us can judge whether the ads are a success or not unless we know if Apple's web traffic and sales are increasing.

Just because people don't 'get' an ad, doesn't necessarily mean it's a failure.
 
moose, do you think the VW commercials are terrible too? they also depict sometimes awkward twenty-somethings and they are pretty quirky.

isn't that a coveted demographic?

should apple try to be the computer for senior citizens in South Dakota?

and i don't think that the sole function of a business should be to make money. you must make money, but it shouldn't be the only thing guiding the decisions of a company that is in the business of creating beautiful machines.

microsoft has kind of cornered the market on the 'we are the normal computer' thing. if apple tries to be grandma's computer, it will look lame. i think offering an alternative computer culture is a good thing with room for growth as average people i've talked to are getting comfortable enough with computers to consider trying other operating systems and comment that macs look nice.

also, something to consider - rules of design are not the same as the rules of advertising. i can think of a million stupid ads by huge corporations that were considered to be successful. sorry to blab for so long :)
 
I think that the commercials are aimed at the 30-50 crowd. My parents who are over 50 don't understand why somebody would use a Walkman, let alone sing with headphones on. The 30-50 crowd is not as accepting of new technologies, as compared to the 18-29, and are an untapped audience as far as on-line music sales are concerned.

I kind of like them. They embarrass me, particularly the "I like big butts and I can not lie.", because I can see myself doing that.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: ?????

Originally posted by moose
Speaking as a designer, you learn very quickly not to question human nature in advertising, or you will fail very quickly. It doesn't matter if you feel you are plainly stating in cold hard text that it is an ad for Applemusic.com. If people don't get, they don't get it. Get thee to the drawing board and work the problem itself: the ad is not communicating. Never, ever blame the audience, or expect them to just "get it".

Secondly, I don't think that all attention is necessarily good attention. I think the parodies, and ridicule, even within the Mac ranks bears this out. Further, the numbers bear it out even worse. If, at the end of the day, as an ad campaign comes to close, or morphs into its next cycle as it is with the iTunes ads, and you look back to see if you are now making more money after these ads, or that you have laid a solid foundation for future sales and the answer is no, then in the most basic business sense it was a failure.


Thirdly, are you implying that Apple's only competitor is itself, if indeed they are not marketing to PC users with a campaign entitled "Switchers" featuring "average users"? That certainly paints a picture of a company attempting to reach a "wide audience" to me. If, as you say Apple's demographic is not a larger audience then Apple will never gain market share, and the label of elitist computing is well applied to us. I guess the eMac is a low cost elite product?

No, I think that at its core, pun intended, Apple is extremely interested in bringing in new blood. If I may be so bold as to read a little into your response, you seem to imply that Apple targeting a "wider audience" is somehow a bad thing. If I am wrong, forgive me, otherwise, I'll say that businesses exist for one purpose: to make as much money as possible. If Apple sells more computers to more users, and spreads our brand of computing to as many people as they can then so much the better. But to imply that the status quo, and a limited market share is somehow acceptable is laughable from a purely business perspective. Thankfully for us, I don't think that is the case.

And as an aside, you would do well to note that your anecdote of both Mercedes and BMW have vastly expanded their base (and revenue) by creating low cost models to appeal to audiences far from their more traditional lofty markets. I like the parallel with Apple in so far as the implication is one of a finely honed, well engineered experience that goes beyond utility into the realm of the emotional, but to think that protection of the Apple brand as a "luxury" marque while simultaneously advertising to bristly beard hippies and stoned students is a lesson in wearing the Emperors clothes...
Click to expand...

I'm ordering my response so that my paragraphs resond directly to yours (so my first paragraph responds to your first paragraph, my 2nd responds to your 2nd, etc.,).

1. I think people are getting it. But the people who get it are less likely to post "Hey I like the new ads" (unless they, really, really like the new adds) than the people who don't like the new ads. Just like people are more likely to post and complain about their Mac when it's not working right than when everything is working fine. I agree that you should never just "expecpt your audience to get it" but on their are almost just as many dangers by staying on the beaten path (so to speak).

2. I can't comment on this more than I have because I don't closely follow Apple's finnacials nor do I have access to documents pretaining to the effectiveness, or ineffectiveness, of the last and current ad campaigns. All I know is what I saw and what I saw was a lot more people talking about Apple than usual. Even at the PC forums I hit there seems to be more respect given to Macs now, after the switcher ads, than before. Not directly because of the ads, but people would start a thread bashing the ads, it would turn into a Mac vs PC debate (sometimes a flame war, sometimes not) and the Mac minority, myself included, would be able to clear away some of the old myths and misconceptions. Of course not all the talk generated by those ads was good talk, but they did get a lot of people talking about Macs who normally wouldn't so I fail to see it as a complete failure.

3. Of course Apple wants to expand it's user base, but its goals and its target audience are not the same as Dells or Gateways. Apple's goal is not to build budget PCs and sell them at the lowest possible prices. Thus Apple is eliminating itself from a target audience that Dell, and Gateway, and HP are slugging it out for. To hit the car metaphor again yes BMW and MB have released lower priced "entry level" cars, but those "low end" models are still way more expensive then the low end offerings from Ford or GM. I'm not trying make Macs out to be some elitist<sp?> computer or anything, but I don't think you'll ever see a "budget" Mac to compete w/Dells $499 PC. Apple just doesn't cater to that market.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by andrewlandry
moose, do you think the VW commercials are terrible too? they also depict sometimes awkward twenty-somethings and they are pretty quirky.

isn't that a coveted demographic?

should apple try to be the computer for senior citizens in South Dakota?
Click to expand...

I love VW's ads. They are consistently one of the hallmarks of the advertising industry IMO. Their ability to match music, cinematography, emotion, gimmick, social relevance and message is equaled only by Nike.

Anywho, If you read back through my comments vis-a-vis the post I was responding to, you will see that my beef is not with the choice of demographics, or with the fact that the individuals might be quirky, but with the advertisements themselves and the manner in which they, to quote myself, take "potentially normal individuals" and make them appear eccentric and weird through both freeform dialogue and especially through the visual device of looking into the camera when speaking. It really should come as no surprise that this is a common casual reaction to the ads, not just limited to myself, since the renowned documentarian Errol Morris who was tapped to film the commercials has made a name for himself interviewing oddballs and freaks. This is getting off-topic, but he really is an amazing documentary maker, and I would highly suggest people not familiar with his work to look up "The Thin Blue Line," "A Brief History of Time," "Mr. Death," and whole series of brilliant documentaries that he filmed for the Bravo network. You will consequently find that he definitely has an eye for exaggerating to almost comic proportions, the eccentricities of a given interviewee.

Originally posted by andrewlandry
and i don't think that the sole function of a business should be to make money. you must make money, but it shouldn't be the only thing guiding the decisions of a company that is in the business of creating beautiful machines.
Click to expand...

If you think that businesses should have a primary goal other than that of making money then you are calling into question the entire commercial and mercantile system. If you are arguing that ethics and solid engineering (and thus customer satisfaction) are somehow divorced from the overarching concern of the almighty dollar, then I beg to differ. I fail to see how, as you seem to suggest, the pursuit of of computing perfection is not anything more than a business objective to attract users such as ourselves. Creating desirable products is, at its most base level, good business. After all, if you don't make any money, then your company, and those brilliant products will cease to exist.

Originally posted by andrewlandry
also, something to consider - rules of design are not the same as the rules of advertising. i can think of a million stupid ads by huge corporations that were considered to be successful. sorry to blab for so long :)
Click to expand...

And yes, I agree, the rules of design are not the rules of advertising, however, they are an intimate facet to be leveraged in the execution of a given campaign and thus absolutely essential. I too, can think of a whole litany of ads that I found extraordinarily annoying but were huge successes. The Dell dude immediately springs to mind. And that really is my point: even if I have an aesthetic issue with the ads, thats really just my problem, but when the ads are odd, AND show no tangible evidence of having increased revenue as is the case here, then one must question their viability and success. The Dell dude annoyed the crap out of me, but he was also responsible for what was quoted in the WSJ as an over 200% increase in sales. I honestly would have never guessed that to be possible. I shudder to think what Carrot Top has done for 1-800 CALL ATT.

Originally posted by andrewlandry
microsoft has kind of cornered the market on the 'we are the normal computer' thing. if apple tries to be grandma's computer, it will look lame. i think offering an alternative computer culture is a good thing with room for growth as average people i've talked to are getting comfortable enough with computers to consider trying other operating systems and comment that macs look nice.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, I feel that the beauty of Apple, and Apple products is not in their uniqueness per se, but in the unique way in which they are so very normal and intuitive. We may be getting into semantics here, but IMO what is really revolutionary about Apple is that they have such a phenomenal understanding of what a user really wants and needs from their system. From a product standpoint, I feel this is their great gift. The resultant Apple advocacy culture, and the unparalleled loyalty is a a direct result of that core understanding. Thus, I think it is a mistake to advertise the culture, when really the impetus is the product. People don't like being preached at. The "Switcher" style ads are akin to proselytizing in the confrontational way that they are filmed. Just think Jehovah's witnesses, and I think we are starting to get close to how many PC users view Mac advocates. Have you been saved (from PC hell)? ;)

You think you "blab long"? Sheesh... sorry. Lethal, I'll respond tomorrow. Beddy time.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?????

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I'm ordering my response so that my paragraphs resond directly to yours (so my first paragraph responds to your first paragraph, my 2nd responds to your 2nd, etc.,).

1. I think people are getting it. But the people who get it are less likely to post "Hey I like the new ads" (unless they, really, really like the new adds) than the people who don't like the new ads. Just like people are more likely to post and complain about their Mac when it's not working right than when everything is working fine. I agree that you should never just "expecpt your audience to get it" but on their are almost just as many dangers by staying on the beaten path (so to speak).

2. I can't comment on this more than I have because I don't closely follow Apple's finnacials nor do I have access to documents pretaining to the effectiveness, or ineffectiveness, of the last and current ad campaigns. All I know is what I saw and what I saw was a lot more people talking about Apple than usual. Even at the PC forums I hit there seems to be more respect given to Macs now, after the switcher ads, than before. Not directly because of the ads, but people would start a thread bashing the ads, it would turn into a Mac vs PC debate (sometimes a flame war, sometimes not) and the Mac minority, myself included, would be able to clear away some of the old myths and misconceptions. Of course not all the talk generated by those ads was good talk, but they did get a lot of people talking about Macs who normally wouldn't so I fail to see it as a complete failure.

3. Of course Apple wants to expand it's user base, but its goals and its target audience are not the same as Dells or Gateways. Apple's goal is not to build budget PCs and sell them at the lowest possible prices. Thus Apple is eliminating itself from a target audience that Dell, and Gateway, and HP are slugging it out for. To hit the car metaphor again yes BMW and MB have released lower priced "entry level" cars, but those "low end" models are still way more expensive then the low end offerings from Ford or GM. I'm not trying make Macs out to be some elitist<sp?> computer or anything, but I don't think you'll ever see a "budget" Mac to compete w/Dells $499 PC. Apple just doesn't cater to that market.


Lethal
Click to expand...

1. Not to give myself too much credit, but I think I am a pretty savvy consumer and critic of advertising (since thats my biz). I didn't get it at first. I feel a little dumb admitting this, but I actually thought it was an ad for the iPod. By the time the Apple store text popped up, I had already convinced myself of that. It took watching it a second time to "get it." I hope I'm a rare exception, but I fear I am not.

2. People talking about Apple is great. People have been talking about Apple for ages, usually in the same dire tones. IMO, the main reason those tones have mellowed or reversed is because of OS X, and the respect it commands as a trump OS. I think the advertising has played an extremely minor role in legitimizing Apple as a computing alternative to the Windows world. Furthermore, I don't think that the talk you speak of, especially in a Mac or PC online forum, can be taken as an average consumer response. I would wager that the people on PC forums jawing about Macs will have somewhat more general computer savvy than the audience that the ads are targeting. But if all they do is talk, and don't act on that buy impulse then the marketing gears are not meshing.

3. I disagree. The number one goal of Dell, Gateway, and Apple, is to make money. If that means Apple should mine new audiences, and seriously investigate a radical change of strategy (separate software and hardware divisions), then so be it, if for no other reason than to keep Apple viable as the markets ebb. Gradually Apple, and Apple advocates are coming around to the realization that a budget PC is not necessarily a low quality PC, and there is no reason that the stigma cannot be dispelled. Dell has proven that conclusively. And that is one of the biggest markets out there for home computing, and potentially a fantastic revenue stream. The eMac is evidence that Apple realizes the potential there (although its telling that it took customers notifying Apple that they wanted in on this "education-only" Mac before Apple made it available to the general public... further evidence that there remains room for much improvement in the way Apple analyzes the market), and great eMac sales stand in testimony to the success of this strategy.
 
Originally posted by moose
You think you "blab long"? Sheesh... sorry. Lethal, I'll respond tomorrow. Beddy time.
Click to expand...

Hey, no sweat. Rome wasn't built in a day. ;) It better be long though. 'Cause if it's not long I'm gonna feel cheated. :p


Lethal
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Hey, no sweat. Rome wasn't built in a day. ;) It better be long though. 'Cause if it's not long I'm gonna feel cheated. :p


Lethal
Click to expand...

I lied. Still awake. :D See above post...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ?????

Originally posted by moose
1. Not to give myself too much credit, but I think I am a pretty savvy consumer and critic of advertising (since thats my biz). I didn't get it at first. I feel a little dumb admitting this, but I actually thought it was an ad for the iPod. By the time the Apple store text popped up, I had already convinced myself of that. It took watching it a second time to "get it." I hope I'm a rare exception, but I fear I am not.

2. People talking about Apple is great. People have been talking about Apple for ages, usually in the same dire tones. IMO, the main reason those tones have mellowed or reversed is because of OS X, and the respect it commands as a trump OS. I think the advertising has played an extremely minor role in legitimizing Apple as a computing alternative to the Windows world. Furthermore, I don't think that the talk you speak of, especially in a Mac or PC online forum, can be taken as an average consumer response. I would wager that the people on PC forums jawing about Macs will have somewhat more general computer savvy than the audience that the ads are targeting. But if all they do is talk, and don't act on that buy impulse then the marketing gears are not meshing.

3. I disagree. The number one goal of Dell, Gateway, and Apple, is to make money. If that means Apple should mine new audiences, and seriously investigate a radical change of strategy (separate software and hardware divisions), then so be it, if for no other reason than to keep Apple viable as the markets ebb. Gradually Apple, and Apple advocates are coming around to the realization that a budget PC is not necessarily a low quality PC, and there is no reason that the stigma cannot be dispelled. Dell has proven that conclusively. And that is one of the biggest markets out there for home computing, and potentially a fantastic revenue stream. The eMac is evidence that Apple realizes the potential there (although its telling that it took customers notifying Apple that they wanted in on this "education-only" Mac before Apple made it available to the general public... further evidence that there remains room for much improvement in the way Apple analyzes the market), and great eMac sales stand in testimony to the success of this strategy.
Click to expand...

1. Did you think it was an iPod ad because of the ad or because the new iPods just came out and you expected to see iPod ads? I guess my piont is did you misunderstand the ad because of the ad or because of your preconcieved notion of what the ad was for? When I first saw the ads I didn't know what they were for until the end when the URL came up. I knew of the store and the new iPods but when I hit apple.com to view the ads I was still of mind set, "I wonder what these ads are selling." For the average consumer who doesn't keep tabs on Apple 7 days a week (like many of us do) I don't think they will bring w/them any baggage that could "spoil" the ads for them.

2. I agree.

3. I agree in part. I think the goal is to sell a product (which in turn makes money). For better or for worse Apple sells an image not just a computer. You see it in their marking, programs, industrial design, and web site layout. And the trend for the Apple stores is to put them into upper/upper-middle class areas. The Apple store here in Indianapolis was put into an upper/upper-middle class mall even though it will get much less foot traffic than if it was in put into one of the "middle-class" malls. And I think Apple's main demographic is, to coin a friend's term, the "Sharper Image crowd" (people who have enough money that they can afford form as well as function). Apple's goal is not to sell computers. Apple's goal is to sell Macintosh computers. No one is going to be able to "out Dell" Dell. Gateway tried and they are on the rocks and currently redefining their image by stressing quality computers and distancing themselves from the budget PC prices wars.

OMG I've rambled so long that I don't even remember what my point was. :eek: Hopefully you get the jist of what I'm saying 'cause I'm not sure if I do anymore...


Lethal
 
All of you are wrong!

These ads are working correctly. How do I know this? Well, as the only owner of a new ipod in my circle of friends and family, I have been asked by 5 people, "whats with that new 99 cent song thing"?

Just from that question you can tell two things:

1. They obviously know this is from Apple! If they thought it was from someone else they wouldn't ask the Apple guru in the crowd, they would have ask my IT friend.

2. It wasn't an ipod commercial and they know that. They weren't asking about the ipod, they were asking me about the 99 cent songs.

If this ad campaign wasn't working, my friends, who don't give a hill of beans about computers, wouldn't be asking me questions. They don't ask about the imac, powerbook or anything else. They want to know about the music.

Apple will get a lot of switchers from this if a itunes windows version doesn't come about. Even if it does, Apple will make big money. My friends galk at my ipod. Its only a matter of time before they pick one up and want to get music from the music store.

Apple isn't dumb. These ads will work as planned.
 
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