Those Little Pins Inside the Case

[GDahm594]

I have been gaming a lot recently on my 2010 13" MBP, (GTAIV). I started experimenting with software overclocking the GPU. I also, of course, am using a number of programs to monitor temperatures and control the fan. In talking with my friends (who are all PC guys and rag on me for my MBP all the time), I've gotten really nervous about the CPU & GPU temps I'm getting. During gaming my GPU temp would get up to 91c. It seemed to stabilize there and even with my fans forced to run at full blast I couldn't get it any lower. My friends told me that was stupid hot and that I should check and make sure I haven't turned my thermal paste to dust. So I checked my thermal paste last night (it actually was fine), but I replaced it anyway with Antec Formula 7 Nano Diamond. Since doing this my GPU only gets up to 82c or so. Pretty sweet to get a 10c drop. My buddies still think this is way to hot. But it really doesn't get hot to the touch at all.

So question one is, why does an MBP seem peachy with what PC users think is damaging heat? I mean, these guys think my laptop should be soup, and I'm like, nah -it's cool.

Anyway, the real question in this thread is this: when I had the laptop apart to redo the thermal paste, I noticed these little pins that poke out of the logic board in several places. A few of them over where the ports are, but one that's just kind of in the middle. They are pins that act in a way sort of like the pins in your mag-safe adapter, in that you can poke them and they give way. I wonder what those are? Are they for grounding to the aluminum case? Some kind of heat dispersion?

 

[maflynn]

So question one is, why does an MBP seem peachy with what PC users think is damaging heat? I mean, these guys think my laptop should be soup, and I'm like, nah -it's cool.

Because you're shortening the life span of the laptop. Laptops are not designed to be over-clocked. The affects of heat damage usually do not show up immediately. and over-clocking will only net a few percentage point of performance yet the heat will definitely produce negative long term issues.

Anyway, the real question in this thread is this: when I had the laptop apart to redo the thermal paste, I noticed these little pins that poke out of the logic board in several places. A few of them over where the ports are, but one that's just kind of in the middle. They are pins that act in a way sort of like the pins in your mag-safe adapter, in that you can poke them and they give way. I wonder what those are? Are they for grounding to the aluminum case? Some kind of heat dispersion?

Without a picture, its difficult to discern what you mean. Obviously apple (or any other computer make) won't stick in parts just because, there's a reason why they're there but without knowing what you're looking at, its difficult to discern.

 

[leman]

Because you're shortening the life span of the laptop. Laptops are not designed to be over-clocked. The affects of heat damage usually do not show up immediately. and over-clocking will only net a few percentage point of performance yet the heat will definitely produce negative long term issues.

You are shortening the livespan of the computer simply by using it I don't see any problems with running these laptops on high loads for prolonged time periods. At least, I did it to all my Apple laptops and never had a single problem.

And as to the question why PC users are obsessed with temps... I honestly don't know. A enthusiast gamer will invest heavily into a cooling system that would bring the temperature down, and yet he will buy a new CPU the year after. It does not make any sense, logically. Even if your CPU should die from excessive heat within a year (which is VERY unlikely), you are still covered by warranty.

 

[maflynn]

You are shortening the livespan of the computer simply by using it I don't see any problems with running these laptops on high loads for prolonged time periods. At least, I did it to all my Apple laptops and never had a single problem.

Agreed, using it as is fine, over-clocking it faster then the CPU and GPU are rated is not, and that's my point

 

[Gav2k]

Over clocking is fine IMHO. As for temps there good don't worry about your mates comments

 

[leman]

Agreed, using it as is fine, over-clocking it faster then the CPU and GPU are rated is not, and that's my point

Over-clocking itself is fine (IMO of course). Over-volting is not.

 

[Krazy Bill]

Given that all things are equal (and they really aren't), I can see where people get the impression MBP's run hot.

Apple values "form" over function and there are some aesthetic tradeoffs to that end. (thinness for one) In other words, Apple doesn't get their panties wadded up over the heat factor and simply designs/tests their components to withstand a bit more. Of course we pay for this.

I also think that Windows GPU drivers are much better and warrant more attention simply because PC's outnumber OSX by such a huge margin. (i.e., there's more money in it). Then there's the software design itself... another topic entirely.

 

[leman]

Apple values "form" over function and there are some aesthetic tradeoffs to that end.

I disagree. IMO, Apple is all about functional form. I don't know of a more functional laptop brand then what Apple makes. The thinness is actually part of the function.

I also think that Windows GPU drivers are much better and warrant more attention simply because PC's outnumber OSX by such a huge margin.

The main reason why Windows GPU drivers are much better is simply because of the gaming industry.

 

[Krazy Bill]

I disagree. IMO, Apple is all about functional form. I don't know of a more functional laptop brand then what Apple makes. The thinness is actually part of the function.

Well, then we shall disagree.

Thinness (surface area) actually impedes the the overall function - particularly in the area of cooling. Same applies to the conductive materials said device is made of. Can't argue with thermodynamics.

Nope. I'm sticking to my guns on this one. While I'm sure Apple strives for a balance, (And I am personally satisfied with that balance)... Jony Ive will win every time there's a disagreement between he and an engineer.

The main reason why Windows GPU drivers are much better is simply because of the gaming industry.

Well, there you go then.

 

[leman]

Thinness (surface area) actually impedes the the overall function - particularly in the area of cooling. Same applies to the conductive materials said device is made of. Can't argue with thermodynamics.

What does thinness has to do with surface area? The surface area stays approximately the same, its still 15" on the top and on the bottom. The few square centimetres lost because of the thinner laptop do not play any role here. (or are you talking about the surface area of the heat-sinks?).

And thinness is a direct consequence of reducing the overall weight - which for me at least is a huge functional concern.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

Those pins that you see are for grounding. The reason they can be depressed is to make contact with the aluminum bottom.The aluminum is relatively thin so it is flexible and will "bow" depending on the external pressure applied. So to adjust for this "bowing", the pins are spring-loaded.

As for temperatures, gaming PCs (high end) use liquid coolers which result in much lower temperatures. Also, gaming PCs have more/bigger fans. The 13" MBP has two (or one?) fans and these are tiny compared to 60mm, 80mm and 120mm PC case fans. That is why your buddies think the temperatures are too high.

 

[GDahm594]

Those pins that you see are for grounding. The reason they can be depressed is to make contact with the aluminum bottom.The aluminum is relatively thin so it is flexible and will "bow" depending on the external pressure applied. So to adjust for this "bowing", the pins are spring-loaded.

As for temperatures, gaming PCs (high end) use liquid coolers which result in much lower temperatures. Also, gaming PCs have more/bigger fans. The 13" MBP has two (or one?) fans and these are tiny compared to 60mm, 80mm and 120mm PC case fans. That is why your buddies think the temperatures are too high.

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses and the healthy discussion that followed. SnowLeopard2008; since you answered both my questions matter-of-factly, you get a cookie. I figured that's what those pins were (actually I thought grounding or some kind of super-sleek full body heat-sink system). And yeah, my buddies probably think thoughs temps are high because they are, basically -but hopefully they're okay.

Anyway: I do understand that over-clocking isn't "kosher," as it were; and I understand the risks involved. Truthfully though, playing this game in Win 7 the GPU got that hot without over-clocking (trust me, I took these things into consideration.) And I'm doing a pretty mild software over-clock (actually barely clocking it over it's original clock speed when you take into consideration that Apple under-clocks it) .

I will have to just chalk it up to the fact that the MBP is going to run hotter because A) It's a laptop (and not to diss Apple's design, but definitely a poorly ventilated laptop) and B) Apple probably did design or in some way compensate for the fact that it would have to withstand higher temps. I just didn't want to sound like a conceited Apple-devotee to my friends in saying that

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses and the healthy discussion that followed. SnowLeopard2008; since you answered both my questions matter-of-factly, you get a cookie. I figured that's what those pins were (actually I thought grounding or some kind of super-sleek full body heat-sink system). And yeah, my buddies probably think thoughs temps are high because they are, basically -but hopefully they're okay.

Anyway: I do understand that over-clocking isn't "kosher," as it were; and I understand the risks involved. Truthfully though, playing this game in Win 7 the GPU got that hot without over-clocking (trust me, I took these things into consideration.) And I'm doing a pretty mild software over-clock (actually barely clocking it over it's original clock speed when you take into consideration that Apple under-clocks it) .

I will have to just chalk it up to the fact that the MBP is going to run hotter because A) It's a laptop (and not to diss Apple's design, but definitely a poorly ventilated laptop) and B) Apple probably did design or in some way compensate for the fact that it would have to withstand higher temps. I just didn't want to sound like a conceited Apple-devotee to my friends in saying that

Haha thanks. Enjoying that virtual cookie right now! The fact that Apple used aluminum and one single piece (unibody) of it verifies part B. Laptops do run hotter because there isn't the option of liquid cooling plus lesser/smaller fans.