Thoughts about the MBP delay

[mikeo007]

There is a large difference between the audience for standalone GPUs and ready to use laptops.

nVidia customers tend to look for information and research ATI vs nVidia. Most of Apple's customers are wowed by the user experience (which still has not aged), which cannot be compared. nVidia's sales would fall dramatically if they become outdated in terms of hardware. Apple's sales tend to stay the same (or in our case, rise).

Apple has nothing to worry about. A few spec whores jumping ship is nothing. The main audience is still there buying MBPs.

People who are clueless are still buying the old hardware. People who absolutely need a mac right now are also buying the old hardware. But a LOT of people are holding out, and some are even moving on.

I agree that they don't have to worry right now, and the much improved user experience has always been Apple's greatest selling point. Mac OS and the (generally) excellent quality and support have always justified the higher price tag on Apple computers.

But that being said, this is a very delicate situation. Take a look at the average buyer's point of view. They've bought a Mac because they wanted one and were clueless (or didn't care) about specs. Apple has made a sale. But now this customer sees what other companies offer at a price to hardware ratio (from a friend, flyer, etc.) and compare it to what they just spent. When Apple's hardware is equal to the competition's, the price disparity is much smaller. But at a point like this, the gap is rather huge. This customer who was happy with their Apple purchase is now questioning whether the extra price was really worth it. Now next time they go to buy a computer, they may not automatically choose Apple, so customer retention goes out the window.

TLDR: Once people realize how much they paid for outdated technology, they're going to be pissed.

 

[Dozerrox]

Supply + demand.

Anyone think it's possible that Apple is doing this to drive down the price on a used macbook pro? It would take a generation or two, but in a while, the bloat of C2D Macbooks on ebay will cause their price to plummet, allowing people to purchase a used one for less.

Effectively doing a price cut, without lowering prices.

I really doubt it. Thinking outside the box though!

 

[linuxcooldude]

People who are clueless are still buying the old hardware. People who absolutely need a mac right now are also buying the old hardware. But a LOT of people are holding out, and some are even moving on.

I agree that they don't have to worry right now, and the much improved user experience has always been Apple's greatest selling point. Mac OS and the (generally) excellent quality and support have always justified the higher price tag on Apple computers.

But that being said, this is a very delicate situation. Take a look at the average buyer's point of view. They've bought a Mac because they wanted one and were clueless (or didn't care) about specs. Apple has made a sale. But now this customer sees what other companies offer at a price to hardware ratio (from a friend, flyer, etc.) and compare it to what they just spent. When Apple's hardware is equal to the competition's, the price disparity is much smaller. But at a point like this, the gap is rather huge. This customer who was happy with their Apple purchase is now questioning whether the extra price was really worth it. Now next time they go to buy a computer, they may not automatically choose Apple, so customer retention goes out the window.

TLDR: Once people realize how much they paid for outdated technology, they're going to be pissed.

I think most people are not as dumb as they are made out to be, such as on this forum. I believe the majority of Apple users are professionals that depend on Macs for their livelihood or people such as myself who are power users.

Even the less unknowing user is going to, over time, learn what the best computer will be for them. If they find out the computer they just bought is not good enough for their needs will be more attuned into what they will be purchasing next time.

This "People are not smart enough" mentality & are now clueless when they buy Apple computers just because other spec whores think they are buying outdated computers is starting to get tiring.

 

[amjustice]

+1

Well written.

Agreed, can we make this our thread for non-haters and people who think logically and are waiting for new MBPs

BTW I am in the camp that the ONLY time to buy a Mac is immediately following an update. Since they rarely change the price on their computers that is when you will get the most for your money. Thats just my opinion, if you want to go buy one now, go right ahead. I am waiting no matter how long it takes!

 

[abs1nthe]

Agreed, can we make this our thread for non-haters and people who think logically and are waiting for new MBPs

BTW I am in the camp that the ONLY time to buy a Mac is immediately following an update. Since they rarely change the price on their computers that is when you will get the most for your money. Thats just my opinion, if you want to go buy one now, go right ahead. I am waiting no matter how long it takes!

Glad I could contribute something

I'm not sure about waiting no matter how long it takes, but I hope that if the wait turns out to be well into June/July or even longer, Apple will give some kind of statement regarding the refresh. At this point, all I really want/need is a solid rumor, or a date. Hell, even a month. The only thing we have right now is that apparently resellers are running out of stock, and don't seem to be receiving any more? Is this what usually happens before a refresh?

 

[beto2012]

The delay will impact mostly "switchers"

I believe the delay will impact mostly "switchers", who are trying to go from Windows to Mac, like myself .
While loyal Mac users (or kids getting their first computer) might not care too much about specs, and will be probably unaware of the new processors, typical current PC users will at least take a look at Windows laptops before investing, and i5 / i7 is all over the place. Intel was careful enough to put a star rating indicating the "power" of each cpu. I don't think any Core2Duo has more than 3 stars today . Current Mac users can also wait a little longer if they already have a working laptop.
But if you are a Windows user, considering the move, and you need a new laptop, it's very hard to justify the price of the current MBP (you are using windows already anyway). Remember that there is also some additional investment for switchers. I, for example, can't use my Photoshop license, unless I spend some money on virtualization SW or a windows license to dual boot. This is not cheap. Other people might be in worst shape, as their HW peripherals might no even be supported (mine are)
So in a nutshell, most Mac users will stay Mac users, most kids in countries where Mac is popular won't get a new computer until next summer when they go back to school (Australia is a notable exception being a heavy Mac user country in the southern hemisphere), but switchers that need a new laptop will be deterred from the current lineup (hey nobody likes being ripped off even if you can afford it).
Just my $0.02

 

[lilo777]

... I think there probably were/are problems with Intel, possibly a poorly planned GPU solution that ended up being revised at the last second, or maybe some other screw-up that we don't know about...

As we all know Intel chips (Arrandale) have been released right on schedule and every major (and minor) computer manufacturers (except for Apple) already offers laptops with these new chips. Perhaps you assume that Intel was/is developing some special chip for Apple. There is absolutely no reasons to believe in this. Intel never developed special chips for one company (Itanium/HP might be an exception but HP pays through the nose for this favor). It's just too expensive and it would not be cost efficient for Apple to go this route.

So, whatever the problem, it's not Intel. My guess is that Apple is just not good at working with other companies and does not want to adjust its schedule according to, say, Intel chip releases. It goes something like this: "Intel, you do not want to release new chip just before WWDC? Screw you, we'll release our notebooks for WWDC anyway." Then of course the only screwed side here is Apple users

 

[mikeo007]

I think most people are not as dumb as they are made out to be, such as on this forum. I believe the majority of Apple users are professionals that depend on Macs for their livelihood or people such as myself who are power users.

Even the less unknowing user is going to, over time, learn what the best computer will be for them. If they find out the computer they just bought is not good enough for their needs will be more attuned into what they will be purchasing next time.

This "People are not smart enough" mentality & are now clueless when they buy Apple computers just because other spec whores think they are buying outdated computers is starting to get tiring.

Truth be told, I agree with you. I was more or less just agreeing with the statement that "the average buyer is oblivious" for the sake of getting my point across.

But what you said compliments my point well...people may fall into the trap of buying outdated hardware THIS time, but when they start weighing the options, things could be different the next time they buy hardware. What Apple is doing now could hurt them in the future.

 

[stewie1]

I think late April is a good bet.
I had another thought: they may end up selling a bunch of MBs and MBPs during the iPad launch, just from people in the store who decide to get a new machine while they're there. Nice way to burn off inventory, and make some cash off people who really don't care too much about specs and haven't done their research. Wait a few weeks, and then bammo, new machines come out. I hope you're right and that it's worth the wait. I am personally waiting to see what the pricing is on the new computers before I make a decision on the iPad (because I'm in the market for some kind of portable computing solution... and I'm flexible on exactly what kind).

 

[mikeo007]

I believe the delay will impact mostly "switchers", who are trying to go from Windows to Mac, like myself .
While loyal Mac users (or kids getting their first computer) might not care too much about specs, and will be probably unaware of the new processors, typical current PC users will at least take a look at Windows laptops before investing, and i5 / i7 is all over the place. Intel was careful enough to put a star rating indicating the "power" of each cpu. I don't think any Core2Duo has more than 3 stars today . Current Mac users can also wait a little longer if they already have a working laptop.
But if you are a Windows user, considering the move, and you need a new laptop, it's very hard to justify the price of the current MBP (you are using windows already anyway). Remember that there is also some additional investment for switchers. I, for example, can't use my Photoshop license, unless I spend some money on virtualization SW or a windows license to dual boot. This is not cheap. Other people might be in worst shape, as their HW peripherals might no even be supported (mine are)
So in a nutshell, most Mac users will stay Mac users, most kids in countries where Mac is popular won't get a new computer until next summer when they go back to school (Australia is a notable exception being a heavy Mac user country in the southern hemisphere), but switchers that need a new laptop will be deterred from the current lineup (hey nobody likes being ripped off even if you can afford it).
Just my $0.02

I'm in virtually the same boat. I have always been (and will continue to be) a PC user. I have applied to a school that requires the students to use Mac laptops. If I get in, I will need a Mac regardless, but this delay will be the difference between me buying a $2000+ computer new from Apple, or a $600 computer used on ebay.

 

[psingh01]

Some Lenovo Thinkpads are supposed to have 1080p IPS screens and bluray drives as options, but recently they have been pulled. If you choose a model with a higher resolution (but still lower than 1080p) the ship time moves up to 4 weeks from a few days. It's possible that Apple's delay is because of low supply of components (most likely the screen). They may not want to announce a laptop with ship times of over a month or worse yet unknown ship times. So they are holding back until they deem they have enough supply. Just a theory...

 

[gri]

I believe the delay will impact mostly "switchers", who are trying to go from Windows to Mac, like myself .
While loyal Mac users (or kids getting their first computer) might not care too much about specs, and will be probably unaware of the new processors... $0.02

ESPECIALLY loyal Apple users DO care about the specs. I do not want to buy a MBP and keep it for the next 3 to 4 years if it is at the time of purchase already one year old technically. As I am really interested in a MBA this would is basically already around 3 or even more years old (for example my 6 year old PB G4 has 2 GB of RAM)...

 

[gwsat]

I believe the delay will impact mostly "switchers", who are trying to go from Windows to Mac, like myself .

That's a great point and I am living proof of it. Seven years ago I decided I wanted a laptop. Although I had been personally and professionally involved in the DOS-Windows world for many years, I nevertheless decided to buy a 17 inch Powerbook G4. Why? Because, at the time, the Powerbook G4 was the only generally available 17 inch laptop. In addition, like today, it was less than one inch thick and weighed less that 7 pounds. Had I been able to buy a Windows machine with similar features at the time, early 2003, I likely would have done so. Now, with subcompact laptops being the rage, the Sony Vaio Z lineup has features that the Macbook Pro lacks, at least for the moment. Consequently, I can't imagine someone who needs such a machine now deciding to pass over the Vaio Z in favor of a Macbook Air or 13 inch Macbook Pro.

 

[amjustice]

Glad I could contribute something

I'm not sure about waiting no matter how long it takes, but I hope that if the wait turns out to be well into June/July or even longer, Apple will give some kind of statement regarding the refresh. At this point, all I really want/need is a solid rumor, or a date. Hell, even a month. The only thing we have right now is that apparently resellers are running out of stock, and don't seem to be receiving any more? Is this what usually happens before a refresh?

I think WWDC is the longest possible time we will have to wait unless there is something really wrong.

 

[SolRayz]

Everyone is so damn impatient, especially since Apple's current line of MBP's are more than capable for the average user for the next several years or more. OSX is pretty friendly like that.

And...I don't quite agree with some. I think Apple will release the new revision Macbook and Macbook Pro's along with the iPad. Why bother waiting if the products are ready for the open market. The sales revenue from those two heavyweights will far outweigh iPad sales on this next highly anticipated revision cycle. No question about that...

 

[auero]

not to worry

+1

 

[Jaxdialation]

I'm waiting to buy my first MBP. But I won't wait much longer before I just get a PC. These issues with interoperability of components seem to be getting handled by other companies. They are a daily concern in technology companies, albeit they are even larger for Apple.

Having casually watched people at the Apple store buy laptops I think the analysis of their sophistication is accurate. To Apple's credit they re-wrote the basis of competition highlight their OS - not the hardware advances. If Apple was feeling the competitive pinch of their dated MBP technology they'd have acted more crisply. The other possible explanation is that MBP just aren't important to Apple's financial success.

What's the risk in waiting?--saving money? Hardly a risk to me. In fact, quite the opposite--there is a huge risk in buying now. True, the update may not amount to much but if that's the case there are plenty of other competing laptops to buy.

The vast majority of Apple's customers are entirely ignorant of specs or what a new processor means. They see a shiny, well designed computer and they buy it. However, if you're on these boards you aren't one of those people and should wait.

 

[stewie1]

Everyone is so damn impatient, especially since Apple's current line of MBP's are more than capable for the average user for the next several years or more. OSX is pretty friendly like that.

That's fine - then Apple should lower the price to reflect the fact that they are selling outdated technology. Honestly, their margins on these computers must be through the roof. I'm fine buying older tech, but don't make me pay a premium price for it. Especially because it will mean that I will need to upgrade sooner - maybe in 3 years instead of 4. That makes a difference.

 

[amjustice]

I'm waiting to buy my first MBP. But I won't wait much longer before I just get a PC. These issues with interoperability of components seem to be getting handled by other companies. They are a daily concern in technology companies, albeit they are even larger for Apple.

Having casually watched people at the Apple store buy laptops I think the analysis of their sophistication is accurate. To Apple's credit they re-wrote the basis of competition highlight their OS - not the hardware advances. If Apple was feeling the competitive pinch of their dated MBP technology they'd have acted more crisply. The other possible explanation is that MBP just aren't important to Apple's financial success.

I can definitely see where people like you are the ones having the hardest time with this. I was like you 2+ years ago when I got my first mac and probably would have started to think about not switching over had it taken this long.

Keep holding out and I promise it will be worth it. Once you go mac you never go back

 

[rneglia]

Pc??

To me it's funny when people say, "If they delay much longer I'll just get a PC". Seriously?? (I'm typing this on a PC at work and it suuucks!)

If you're on a Mac, you'll stay on a Mac.

 

[Jaxdialation]

I'm sure you are correct. The crux of the issue is not my level of patience, it is a growing annoyance with Apple. I'm holding on because this annoyance is sometimes offset by admiration for their niche marketing savvy. I'm not sure the huge profits on dated technology pays for the guy in bluejeans on TV, but I have to admire their market choices!

I can definitely see where people like you are the ones having the hardest time with this. I was like you 2+ years ago when I got my first mac and probably would have started to think about not switching over had it taken this long.

Keep holding out and I promise it will be worth it. Once you go mac you never go back

There are a lot of funny decisions made on discretionary purchases. In the case of laptops the vast majority decide on PCs. As amjustice wisely noted, Apple hasn't earned my loyalty yet. They have earned a shot at getting it. I'm not a computer whiz, but I am informed. I can't argue with the "Mac never go back" paradigm. I'm trying to go there, but Apple isn't helping.

To me it's funny when people say, "If they delay much longer I'll just get a PC". Seriously?? (I'm typing this on a PC at work and it suuucks!)

If you're on a Mac, you'll stay on a Mac.

 

[TheDrift-]

I believe the delay will impact mostly "switchers", who are trying to go from Windows to Mac, like myself .
While loyal Mac users (or kids getting their first computer) might not care too much about specs, and will be probably unaware of the new processors, typical current PC users will at least take a look at Windows laptops before investing, and i5 / i7 is all over the place. Intel was careful enough to put a star rating indicating the "power" of each cpu. I don't think any Core2Duo has more than 3 stars today . Current Mac users can also wait a little longer if they already have a working laptop.
But if you are a Windows user, considering the move, and you need a new laptop, it's very hard to justify the price of the current MBP (you are using windows already anyway). Remember that there is also some additional investment for switchers. I, for example, can't use my Photoshop license, unless I spend some money on virtualization SW or a windows license to dual boot. This is not cheap. Other people might be in worst shape, as their HW peripherals might no even be supported (mine are)
So in a nutshell, most Mac users will stay Mac users, most kids in countries where Mac is popular won't get a new computer until next summer when they go back to school (Australia is a notable exception being a heavy Mac user country in the southern hemisphere), but switchers that need a new laptop will be deterred from the current lineup (hey nobody likes being ripped off even if you can afford it).
Just my $0.02

I am with this I was all set to buy a mac book about 2/3 weeks ago, before I spend £1000.00+ on a laptop, most people who have never bought apple are gonna at least do a quick internet search, if not about the computer itself at least to try and find the best price.

If they are do they are likely to come across a thread like this, amazon forums are full of people saying hold on update due any time etc.

So like me, as windows user I thought hey i hear macs are good lets buy one, hold on, there's going to be a new one. Wait, Wait, more waiting hmmm maybe I will just stick with windows after all.

Longer it goes on the more customers they are going to lose, however the better the update the more poeple will switch from windows after, If they make a mess of it and release a crap MBP then they will loose loyal customers. Thats the dilema for apple.

Personally i will prob wait another couple of months, but I dont think I'm gonna drop £1500.00 on a mid MBP which looks to me to be behind the competition in terms of hard ware. I may not be the most tec savvy person but to assume most mac users dont care about specs/pricing/updates etc is pretty niave imo.

 

[itommyboy]

Good post. This has not been thrown around enough so all I will say is...not to worry.

 

[noobinator]

I really think Apple is working on more than just a processor upgrade for this year MBPs. My prediction is that most of us will be presently surprised when they finally come out. I think they are going to include something or some change that not many of us are anticipating.

 

[dusk007]

I have to agree with some users here but not so much the theory of the first post. Building something like a GPU is much much more complicated and even small errors can really **** things up. Building a notebook does not require that much expertise and you can not **** things up that badly or irreversably. In GPU developement you have a developement cycle with only small flexibility of a few years. A notebook you can put together in a few months and still change a lot in a quite short timeframe. The most difficult part is probably drivers and that is something were errors can be corrected quite fast.

I think as some here that it has something to do with components they need but don't get in sufficient quantity. Building a Notebook is really not that hard especially not with the resources Apple has. But if they can't get enough CPUs or enough displays that is the only showstopper I can imagine.
Something like a GPU problem with some 300M nvidia GPU and Optimus is really not that hard and if they get it wrong at first try that is quite easy to fix with nvidia help. This would never delay the release by more than a month because it is almost entirely a software thing.