Thoughts on Aperture Migration

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by jadot, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. jadot, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014

    jadot macrumors 6502

    jadot

    Joined:
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    #1
    (I'm running mini workshops to help people to move to Capture One Pro, if anyone is interested, at least in the UK).

    Aperture is dead, and although people are arguing that they're going to stay with faithful devotion and see what happens with "Photos" they haven't realised that to remain competitive and productive you have to move on.

    The arguments don't stick:

    "Aperture does what I need it to and it's not going away for a while".
    Well, it's already been going away. The lack of development has meant that Aperture's toolset simply hasn't been able to keep up with the competition. Apple gave up developing Aperture long ago, and it's more or less been dormant for around 4 years. You'll be surprised at what new things you can do in other applications. If it aint broke - don't fix it? Doesn't apply here. If it's lame, put it down.

    "Aperture's file system really works"

    Yes, it's true. But you'll find Capture One can match and even surpass Aperture in this regard, and the UI is much more customisable.

    "I have Terabytes of RAW files - I don't want to re-process"

    You can access your RAW files and open them in C1, or export them as TIFFs with your adjustments 'baked in'. If you're not going to spend time re-processing old files then this shouldn't matter. If you are then this would take the same time as it would do had you kept them 'safe' in Aperture, so what's the problem?

    "It's a steep learning curve - I invested a lot of time in Aperture"
    This is the "I don't want to change" argument. When you're used to a specific workflow it's hard to switch into a new way of working, so build in a transition. One of the things that happens is you will first notice what the new application CAN'T do when compared to your beloved previous workflow. Or keyboard shortcuts that you miss. That's OK, there will plenty of things that are new and will start to actually make more sense. For example; You can dramatically change the workspace in C1. You can move around your adjustments within their toolset. You can configure it to have only the adjustments that you need without having to scroll through everything just to get to your one adjustment at the end of your 'hud'. You'll be surprised at how something as simple as this speeds up your workflow.

    "I hate Adobe's subsciption model/ C1 is too expensive/doesn't support plug-ins"

    Get over CC - it's 9.99 a month - you spend more than that on diet coke. You get regularly updated Photoshop and Lightroom. It's good value. Capture One isn't expensive if you need the tools that it offers, and there is a trial and an LE version. The time you save in post processing is far more valuable. If it's too expensive, you'll probably be fine with Photos, but then you're not allowed to complain about the lack of features. Phase One is a relatively small team and they have a massively capable application. It costs money to support that, and no - I don't work for Phase One! They sometimes run offers which you could look out for, and yes, I think that they could be cheaper, especially in light of the Aperture announcement, but what are you gonna do?

    "I love Apple, and their new Photos App is going to blow us all away, so I'll wait"

    Really? It might do, I guess, but it's a bit of a gamble. Think about it: Apple have killed off Aperture. They haven't said we're going to release a new version - a rebuild. they've essentially said "we're not going to develop this product for this market any more, because other third party Apps have that covered and their focus is trained on that kind of development. we want to develop a universal consumer application that anybody and everybody will want to use".
    Photos will likely be an incredible cross purpose application with tight iCloud integration across devices, iOS, OS X. Most interesting is the new extensibility and what the New universal RAW technologies built into the OS will be able to do. It's that Core processing in OS X that third party developers (like Adobe for example) will be able to leverage into their applications, or plug-ins if you will, to make professional editing even more capable than it is now. Photos doesn't have to be presented at the same level or to the same market as Aperture currently is, and that's part of the cunning plan.



    It's a smart move by Apple. It gets consumers into the loop, it gets talented developers knocking on the door, and it saves a huge amount of their own resources by Not having to develop in house. Meanwhile, everybody is cleaning up their media fuelled life and living happily on OS X, iOS, and iCloud.

    Basically, by opening up core technologies within OS X they've found a way to get more professionals back into the fold through third party developing. The only casualty is Aperture, but Aperture has actually been competitively in the way of this more open standard, and it hasn't really been able to compete anyway, when you look at what Adobe and Phase One are up to.

    Sticking with Aperture in the hope that you're beloved Apple are going to rescue your old way of working is going to come back and bite you in the ass. In an unprecedented gesture Apple have even (kind of) said "We're giving you plenty of notice, and we understand that you love using the software, but Aperture isn't a viable model any more. The technology is changing and we're giving you the opportunity to get on board with third party applications. Shift your professional workflow, and get ready for the next phase now."

    They've handed it to you on a plate. It's not a free lunch, but for photographers it's a very tasty meal.
     
  2. maflynn, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014

    maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

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    Location:
    Boston
    #2
    So you're a C1 expert - great. Can I ask you some questions on migrating from LR.
    I've been playing with C1 and found it lacking in some ways.
    I used to have Aperture manage my images in libraries, I had a 2012 library, 2013, etc. The older years were on my DAS the current year on my rMBP.

    With Lightroom, I use a file structure setup and I can easily use LR to then move my 2014 folder to my DAS once I'm done.

    I don't think Capture One can do this - at least within the app. I'm not liking the session based setup of C1, it goes against my organizational setup and work flow.

    Any suggestions in using Capture One or resources to give me more information on the power of the app.

    I'm all but decided to go to Lightroom and I've already fleshed out how I want to transition my work from AP to LR. With that said, I'm a bit concerned about the subscription model that I think adobe may be going to in the future versions. Sure I can buy L5 now and not upgrade to a subscription model but that puts me in the same spot of using Aperture - locked into a version that may or may not work in the future.

    Basically, I like the Rendering of C1, but I think LR may be a better fit for me, but I want to give Capture One its due diligence in determining if it fits my needs.
     
  3. jadot thread starter macrumors 6502

    jadot

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    #3
    I use Capture One in the same way I use(d) Aperture - with a packaged Library (One library per year) with albums as projects. You can set up as many folders, albums, or whatever else. You can configure the folders/albums to work the way you want them to. Think of it like a managed library system in Aperture, if you know that. You can also run it in the same way as a referenced library and choose your own folder structure within OS X if you want.

    Personally I don't use sessions unless I'm shooting tethered, but that happens less and less now anyway.

    I'm not advocating Capture One over Lightroom here - I don't know Lightroom well enough to make assumptions, it's just that I never could get along with Adobe's interface and library logic.

    I would say though, that if you know Lightroom you should go with that. Personally I think that the subscription model offers more benefits than negatives, but I do appreciate where people are coming from.

    Capture One is extremely focussed and powerful, and has a very intelligent and customisable approach to it's user experience.Things really got better from v6 and it keeps getting better.
    There are too many good reasons not to use Aperture to be still wanting it to be resuscitated...
     
  4. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #4
    I'm loading my 2014 images into a catalog right now, and I'll see how that works out. I tried using C1 referencing my images - that's where I think its falling down compared to LR (at least for my needs).

    Agreed, the UI does take some getting used too, and I'm not there yet.

    I'm about 80+ percent sure I'll go with Lightroom but I do want to give C1 a fair shake. I think there can be benefits for the subscription model, I'm on Office 365 as I can easily quantify the benefits. As for Adobe's subscription model, for Lightroom (and Photoshop), I'm not exactly sold that I'm getting my money's worth to be honest. I'm a light PS user and I'm expecting LR to handle most of my editing needs.

    One thing I noticed yesterday is that C1 does't handle noisy images as well as I had hoped, with LR, I can easily use a plug-in to clean up my pictures. I probably could export, use PS and then I suppose re-import.
     
  5. jadot thread starter macrumors 6502

    jadot

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    #5

    I think Apple's Core raw technologies coupled with extensibility will make it much easier for third party applications to leverage plug-ins. I wouldn't surprised if Phase One figure out plug-ins in the near future, or at least round tripping through photoshop in a better way but I actually find that with the adjustment brushes tool I rarely need to go in to photoshop these days.
     
  6. hulk2012 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    #6
    Thoughts on Aperture Migration

    Where in the uk mate? I'm c1user but always would like to learn something. I love it to bits. Been using it for nearly 2 yrs. Took me almost a year to choose the right software by endless outcome results they all give. C1 we're always ahead followed by dxo optics. Aperture were the worthy however it's dam everything virtually organisation compliments its raw processing quality unless you like me - perfectionist then there is no compromise - c1.
    Are you phase one certified if you don't mind me asking?
     
  7. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #7
    I have to say I'm impressed with C1 I'm not sure if the images below can show the differences but the image on the left is C1 with nothing done other then importing. The right is LR without any editing. This is just illustrating the rendering done by the application.

    Images at 100%
    [​IMG]

    Images at 200%
    [​IMG]

    I need to find my plugins so I can see how the LR image looks after running it through my noise reduction plug-in. I was wrong when I said C1 did a poor job at noise reduction.
     
  8. jadot thread starter macrumors 6502

    jadot

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    #8
    I'm not Phase One certified - they haven't asked yet! ;)

    I'm based in the Guildford area, but it sounds to me like you are already using Capture One in the way that you want. A couple of people have asked me to show them how to set C1 up from an Aperture based workflow, so I just light the fuse and let them go.
     
  9. hulk2012 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    #9

    I see thanks. You can get certified without the asking you. Check their site or talk to David from c1 marketing dept.
     
  10. jadot thread starter macrumors 6502

    jadot

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    #10
    One of the reasons I didn't get into Lightroom is what I think is it's main problem: detail and Noise rendering (before using plug-ins). This was made even more apparent with their terrible Fuji X-trans conversion - it's pretty bad.

    C1 nails it.
     
  11. realitystops macrumors regular

    realitystops

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    #11
    Same here if you don't mind.
     
  12. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #12
    I'm incredibly impressed by C1's processing of my RAW files, but I will say with running that image through Dfine the images are now on parity, in fact I'd give the edge to the LR image now (the only processing I did was pump it through the NIK plugin with default settings)

    [​IMG]
     
  13. hulk2012 macrumors 6502

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    #13
    Thoughts on Aperture Migration


    Cardiff and yes I'm certified. Don't like word expert but I know quite a bit. I been learning using all the major softwares for 3-4 years and bit of monies attending seminars, paid tutorials etc. I was using them on daily basis and doing the same over and over with loads of experimentation using my day to day shoots. I know their differences as well as strength and weakness each of them.
    C1 is my tool for raw processing. Serious edits need ps and others.
     
  14. MCAsan, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014

    MCAsan macrumors 601

    MCAsan

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    Location:
    Atlanta
    #14
    Is C1 every going to address the following:

    • the need to send an image to a plugin, get back the TIF or PSD, store it along side the original and present the new edited file to the user?
    • Let the photography set and review the location/GPS data on maps? After all, the vast majority of photographers are not just inside a studio.
    • Create a slideshow with music.
    • Define and order a book of photos.
    • Create a really nice webpage gallery.
    • Export to social media accounts (something I personally detest).

    For me C1 is way too much still aimed at studio photographers. If Phase One wants a larger marketshare of photographers, it needs to consider the above for Pro 8 and future releases.

    I have no problems at all with the image organization or raw processing. IT is just that I have to pick a DAM on far more points that just those two.
     
  15. jadot thread starter macrumors 6502

    jadot

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    #15
    C1 Users could also look at Media Pro - itself a powerful asset.
     
  16. MCAsan macrumors 601

    MCAsan

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    #16
    I looked at the Media Pro features. I may have missed things but I do not see how it addresses the features in the above bullet list that some Aperture or LR users use and would expect in a full featured DAM with raw editing.

    For me at least, using plugins in a similar manner to Aperture or LR is a must-have issue.


    Much thanks for sharing your C1 knowledge!!!!
     
  17. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #17
    I wonder if C1 version 8 will start the process of merging both applications. Each one has its own set of benefits and short comings, bringing the two together (easier said then done I know) may give Phase One the app that can compete with LR head to head.
     
  18. pezdaddy macrumors member

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    Oct 3, 2012
    #18
    So Capture One doesn't have plugin support? Haven't downloaded it, so don't know for sure but that's the impression I get.
     
  19. MCAsan macrumors 601

    MCAsan

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    #19
    It does not let you define plugins and a round trip with the plugin saving the image back in the C1 library. Very different compared to Aperture or LR.
     
  20. pezdaddy macrumors member

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    #20
    Well that's disappointing. Almost feels like a non starter then..
     
  21. hulk2012 macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Thoughts on Aperture Migration


    No need for plugins in c1. It can do what other raw editors can only dream of. In fact you never get the same results for every pics by using plugins as they work differently depending on individual raw file data. With c1 edit you can keep consistence of edit keeping the same theme of entire photo session or batch of you like.
     
  22. Razeus macrumors 603

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    #22
    If you can't do what you need to so with a RAW file with Lightroom+Photoshop+Nik Software Plug-ins, then I can't help you.
     
  23. pezdaddy macrumors member

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    #23
    So C1 can do what Nik plugins can do (for example) regardless of the "special sauce" that Nik uses to get those results?
     
  24. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #24
    To a point, I think that's true. I haven't used C1 exhaustively yet, but I took a grainy noisy image and it cleaned up really well in C1, not so much in LR. Using NIK, the results were much better.

    The thing with Capture One for me, is the last of DAM capabilities, it lacks the organizational tools that LR and Aperture have - at least that's my uneducated opinion.
     
  25. aristobrat, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014

    aristobrat macrumors G5

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    #25
    IMO, jumping from Aperture at this point in the game is the gamble.

    With the recent news about Aperture, Adobe has already announced that they have big plans for Light Room, and I'd imagine that Phase One has similar big plans for Capture One.

    So with major changes likely in the near future for the main photo editing/organization suites (including Apple, with their new Photos app), if folks current Aperture workflow is working well for them, I don't see any benefit from telling people that they need to immediately (or in the near future) pick an Aperture replacement.

    It's not like Aperture is going to stop working next year when Yosemite comes out.

    Should people start to think now about replacing Aperture now? Probably. But when it comes to actually jumping ship, I'd personally wait for the next round of updates from the big guys, and see how things shake out then.
     

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