Thoughts on Stage Manager?

[Ludatyk]

I actually mean mission control from macOS. So on macOS we have mission control that you can use to see all overlapping windows and a row of spaces and fullscreen and split view apps at the top. This would have been great on iPad to allow multiple overlapping windows more easily and would allow them to abandon the auto-resizing that happens right now. It also provides a nice integrated with great interaction design.

What I’m trying to explain to you is that Mission Control is equivalent to that of App Exposé on iPadOS.. and preexisting multitask with App Exposé on iPadOS is better suited for you.

Stage manger is bad interaction design, it isn't preferences, you can measure number of taps and conceptual complexity. Complex interactions using Stage manger vs mission control on Mac and you can see that mission control offers many of the same interactions in fewer actions. The complexity of the mental model is also worse in stage manager because it has no spatial organization. An adapted mission control would allow similar patterns to come over to the iPad and would offer a much cleaner mental model to users.

As I said initially with the post you responded to Stage Manager will see changes going forward… I personally don’t think the design is bad and there are others who are pleased with Stage Manager. Any average user can enable Stage Manager and use it.. that’s how I would measure design. As of now, most of the criticism comes from the fact users cannot move windows around freely.

But Stage Manager provides indicators to let you know you are in a window resizing environment… there is a side bar where recent apps reside, I don’t see how it is such a complicated design.

Recent apps is not a replacement for app expose, we didn't have to have this compromise and that is what I hate most. Stage manager feels like reinventing the wheel not because the new wheel is better but because 'different' and 'new' are being prioritized.

Never said it was a replacement… but it’s a feature that should be used more when in Stage Manager. You could use App Exposé while in Stage Manager, but it’s not as efficient than using recent apps feature.

You might be more of Mac user… which is completely okay, but as a iPad primary user I don’t have a problem with Stage Manager at its foundation. I use it on the iPad itself... but I find it more better on an external display. Does it need some tweaks and adjustments to it? Absolutely. It’s not perfect.

 

[CC88]

Umm.. if I'm not mistaken I seen this workaround in some forum, but I'd rather it be built in.

I have a question for you though, I noticed you are using a Bluetooth keyboard... does it ever auto disconnect? Because when that happens it delinks from Stage Manager... correct?

If you put the iPad in clamshell, hit cmd-space you can unlonck it and use it in clamshell mode with full screen.

See attached image.

”With the iPad closed, hit CMD+Space on your keyboard. Your wallpaper will appear on screen. And Search is open on your iPad Screen. CMD+Space to get out of that and hit the space bar and type in your passcode. Your iPad screen is still on and can be interacted with, but it’s closed.”

This is from another post in this forum.

 

[bondr006]

If you put the iPad in clamshell, hit cmd-space you can unlonck it and use it in clamshell mode with full screen.

See attached image.

”With the iPad closed, hit CMD+Space on your keyboard. Your wallpaper will appear on screen. And Search is open on your iPad Screen. CMD+Space to get out of that and hit the space bar and type in your passcode. Your iPad screen is still on and can be interacted with, but it’s closed.”

This is from another post in this forum.

Interesting, but I would not want my iPad screen on with it closed. It gets the iPad hot when you do that, which can be very harmful to your device. I like my solution better. Just full screen a black background in the photo's app. Done deal, and doesn't have to be closed.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

Any average user can enable Stage Manager and use it..

I think there’s a lot of iPad Air owners that turn on Stage Manager and find it hard to comprehend and frustrating.

IMO Apple put themselves in a tough spot with Stage Manager in regards to “who’s it for.” Originally it was only M1 devices. The dilemma there is that included recent iPad Air models. Which IMO are different target markets, hence the bright colors of the iPad Air.

But they couldn’t restrict it to only the Pro model, because the Airs run on the same hardware. How would they be able to explain that? So they found themselves in a situation where they really couldn’t free Stage Manager from the training-wheels environment that iPadOS lives within.

Instead of a truly “Pro” experience aimed at experienced users with a need for more productivity in their workflow, we have this absurd self-positioning windowed experience aimed at the masses. You might think you know where you want to place your window, but no, Stage Manager knows better. It will move everything around for you because it’s smarter than you. Why does Stage Manager move everything around for you? Because Apple won’t allow themselves to include Mission Control, despite it being designed and perfected for a windowed environment for over a decade.

 

[Ludatyk]

I think there’s a lot of iPad Air owners that turn on Stage Manager and find it hard to comprehend and frustrating.

Umm.. this is based on what?

IMO Apple put themselves in a tough spot with Stage Manager in regards to “who’s it for.” Originally it was only M1 devices. The dilemma there is that included recent iPad Air models. Which IMO are different target markets, hence the bright colors of the iPad Air.

Stage Manager is a feature designated to give users an option to have more active windows on screen, I don't see how it should exclude iPad Air owners... especially given the price those customers pay.

But they couldn’t restrict it to only the Pro model, because the Airs run on the same hardware. How would they be able to explain that? So they found themselves in a situation where they really couldn’t free Stage Manager from the training-wheels environment that iPadOS lives within.

Training wheels environment? I seriously don't see how Stage Manager is this complicated pro-only feature that needs a manual to understand.

Why does Stage Manager move everything around for you? Because Apple won’t allow themselves to include Mission Control, despite it being designed and perfected for a windowed environment for over a decade.

Mission Control is on the Mac... if you prefer to use Mission Control use the Mac. Stage Manager doesn't necessarily move everything around for the user... once a user drags a window onto stage, they have some level of control. Granted... it's not as freely as one would expect, but a user can move windows around however they choose...

 

[Jedimindtrick]

Umm.. this is based on what?

Based on iPad Airs being the more affordable option aimed at more casual users. They’re blue, purple and yellow for a reason. Most people aren’t going to show up to a meeting with a bright purple iPad. It’s aimed for students and at home use.

And the fact that I - someone who uses iPads daily - find it frustrating.

Training wheels environment? I seriously don't see how Stage Manager is this complicated pro-only feature that needs a manual to understand

It isn’t a Pro-Only feature, it’s the opposite really. It’s window management with training-wheels. It picks and chooses where your windows go for you. I would actually prefer it to be a Pro Only feature that was actually useful. It wastes so much screen real estate.

And I disagree, I think a casual user would definitely need to watch a tutorial to understand it.

Mission Control is on the Mac... if you prefer to use Mission Control use the Mac. Stage Manager doesn't necessarily move everything around for the user... once a user drags a window onto stage, they have some level of control. Granted... it's not as freely as one would expect, but a user can move windows around however they choose...

The argument that if someone wants the iPad Pro - the most versatile product on the market - to be better, to preform to the level of its hardware, and the response is - well that’s just the way iPads are, if you don’t like it buy a Mac - that’s lame. I have 3 Macs. I have 4 iPads. I use all of them. Without question, the Mac is a more productive machine. And for years, that was hardware related. That’s not the case anymore, and I’d like to see Apple push the Pro line (not Airs, minis, base iPad) to use the hardware more effectively. Instead I do have to use a Mac, not because my iPad isn’t capable, but because the OS is so limited. It’s silly to me how Apple picks and chooses which features are acceptable to port over to iPadOS. Stage Manager is a prime example. It’s on both MacOS and iPadOS, but Mission Control is off limits for some reason.

In regards to window placement. When you’re adding windows to the Stage, it shifts everything around behind it. Forcing you to rearrange everything back to the way it was. Again, the reason for this behavior is because they don’t have a version of Mission Control for iPad, and because of that it has to take control and move your windows so that you can always see a corner.

My feelings towards stage manager is: it’s better than nothing.

 

[Ludatyk]

Based on iPad Airs being the more affordable option aimed at more casual users. They’re blue, purple and yellow for a reason. Most people aren’t going to show up to a meeting with a bright purple iPad. It’s aimed for students and at home use.

You mentioned iPad Air owners finding Stage Manager too complicated... that's what I'm trying to understand.

It isn’t a Pro-Only feature, it’s the opposite really. It’s window management with training-wheels. It picks and chooses where your windows go for you. I would actually prefer it to be a Pro Only feature that was actually useful. It wastes so much screen real estate.

And I disagree, I think a casual user would definitely need to watch a tutorial to understand it.

I understand it's not a pro-only feature... I'm pointing out you criticizing it being complicated. Once a user enables Stage Manger... they are being presented with a window that indicates it can be resize. In addition to this one window, they have 4 recent apps easily accessible. Where is the complication in this?

And this is at the basic level of Stage Manager... once a user dives more into it they can find ways that benefit them.

I have 3 Macs. I have 4 iPads. I use all of them. Without question, the Mac is a more productive machine. And for years, that was hardware related. That’s not the case anymore, and I’d like to see Apple push the Pro line (not Airs, minis, base iPad) to use the hardware more effectively.

But Apple is pushing the iPad Pro. It might not be at the pace that you require... but this is the first time Apple has designated features specifically for iPad Pro owners with external display support. I don't have a Mac... I use a PC, but I use my iPad as my primary driver because as you mentioned it's the most versatile product on the market.

But I think in the end... you desire macOS on an iPad and that's illogical when its already on the Mac.

It’s silly to me how Apple picks and chooses which features are acceptable to port over to iPadOS. Stage Manager is a prime example. It’s on both MacOS and iPadOS, but Mission Control is off limits for some reason.

Silly? Not sure if you watched Federighi on the Talk Show. He explained why Stage Manager exist on macOS... window resizing is already available on it, yet poor window management is something Federighi mention as to why they brought it over to macOS. Whereas Stage Manager on iPadOS provides window resizing windows which is something that was never available... I don't see how that's silly.

In regards to window placement. When you’re adding windows to the Stage, it shifts everything around behind it. Forcing you to rearrange everything back to the way it was. Again, the reason for this behavior is because they don’t have a version of Mission Control for iPad, and because of that it has to take control and move your windows so that you can always see a corner.

As I noted earlier... Mission Control is on the Mac, the equivalent of that on iPadOS is App Exposé. And I believe preexisting multitasking with App Exposé can allow you to move windows around much easier compared to Stage Manager, which is better suited for you.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

You mentioned iPad Air owners finding Stage Manager too complicated... that's what I'm trying to understand.

Yes, I believe there's probably a lot if iPad Air owners who likely find Stage Manager difficult to comprehend, because the user base of the iPad Air vs the Pro are different. I think we can agree that iPad Pro users (compared to iPad Air users) are likely more willing to learn the intricacies of iPadOS.

I understand it's not a pro-only feature... I'm pointing out you criticizing it being complicated. Once a user enables Stage Manger... they are being presented with a window that indicates it can be resize. In addition to this one window, they have 4 recent apps easily accessible. Where is the complication in this?

And this is at the basic level of Stage Manager... once a user dives more into it they can find ways that benefit them.

Sure, if you choose to use stage manager as simply one non-fullscreen window with a quick app switcher on the side, it's not too complicated. I can't really see how anyone would view that as an improvement over anything we already had. Sure you have an app switcher, but now you're only using 70% of the screen.

It becomes complicated when you want to have 4 apps open simultaneously. That's when it becomes clunky. Once everything is set, I do think it's really cool! But getting everything set up is unnecessarily complicated. I don't even bother sizing and placing the windows anymore when I open the apps I need. I just open all of them up and toss them into the Stage, and then start individually placing/sizing them. It just feels unnatural. But sure enough, as I do that, the apps in the background will go from far right to far left, and I have to put it everything back where I had it. It's janky and I don't understand who Apple thinks appreciates that AI behavior, other than a complete novice.

But Apple is pushing the iPad Pro. It might not be at the pace that you require... but this is the first time Apple has designated features specifically for iPad Pro owners with external display support. I don't have a Mac... I use a PC, but I use my iPad as my primary driver because as you mentioned it's the most versatile product on the market.

But I think in the end... you desire macOS on an iPad and that's illogical when it's already on the Mac.

As I noted earlier... Mission Control is on the Mac, the equivalent of that on iPadOS is App Exposé. And I believe preexisting multitasking with App Exposé can allow you to move windows around much easier compared to Stage Manager, which is better suited for you.

I am glad that you pointed out that you dont have a Mac, you use PC. I think this is where a lot of our disconnect comes from. I don't think you're fully aware of the amount of synergy MacOS and iPadOS already share. Spotlight, the Dock, Control Center, Notification Center, Stage Manager, Siri, every single keyboard command, the list goes on. Going from a Mac to an iPad Pro (especially with a keyboard) is already very similar! And the adoption process has been both ways, features going from iPadOS to MacOS. Launchpad on MacOS was taken right out of iPadOS (still iOS on iPad at that time.) This process has been continuous. Every year, slowly but surely the iPad has evolved more and more similar to MacOS as the technology has advanced.

I don't want macOS on iPad. But I can say, having extensively used both platforms, I can tell you which multi task is better, and multitasking via Mission Control is straight up better than anything on the iPad. I think you can agree that since you dont use MacOS, how can you really argue which one is better? You would want it too if you knew how much better it was than App Expose.

I honestly think a version of Mission Control will one day be a part of the iPadOS ecosystem. It's a signature Apple feature, it's one of the best productivity designs they've ever come up with, and if Stage Manager/windowed apps evolve on the iPad, so should the way we manage them on the screen.

 

[dhw01]

Unable to use Airplay speaker while Stage Manager on external display is stupidity

 

[bondr006]

Unable to use Airplay speaker while Stage Manager on external display is stupidity

This is my biggest gripe with Stage Manager. Why on earth would Apple make the sound default to the external monitor with no setting to change the sound output. At the very least, the sound should default to the iPad speakers. There are work arounds, but I hate workarounds when there should just be sound settings.

 

[George Dawes]

Used it once , that was enough

Yet another hyped up gimmick when there's important real world stuff like bloated ram use in Safari to sort out

 

[unrigestered]

.OS.

 

[bondr006]

Used it once , that was enough

Yet another hyped up gimmick when there's important real world stuff like bloated ram use in Safari to sort out

Like I said earlier, this is a very subjective topic, like politics and religion. Everybody has an opinion. Some love it, some hate it, many are somewhere in the middle, and I'm guessing, that most just don't care. What it comes down to is its usefulness and utility, or lack thereof, for any given individual.

I am one of the one's that love it, and see it as what I as an iPad user have been waiting for for years, and now we finally have it. To have real external monitor support just makes me grin from ear to ear. People are angry that it's not a MacOS clone or Windows clone. I am glad it's not. It is windowing for iPadOS, and I like it quite a bit. I am sure they will iron out the bugs and it will mature just like any other software, but I am just happy that I can use my iPad as a desktop device now, and loving it. Been using computers since the early 80's, so it is fun to have a new experience that changes things up a bit.

I am a realtor that uses my iPad Pro as my main work device, and Stage Manager with the external monitor support has changed my workflow a lot. Having the ability to have 5 sets of 4 apps open on iPad and the external monitor is a game changer for me. I can group apps that I use together a lot, and just open the group I want to use. I can also be doing something totally different on the iPad from what I am doing on the monitor. I also find it easy to switch apps between the monitor and iPad when I need to, and to open new windows. I really don't understand all the hate that Stage Manager is getting. I mean, I am 62 and have used Macs and PC's for going on 40 years now, and for some reason iPadOS and stage manager is just something I get. I have really enjoyed using my iPad as my main device this past year, and it makes me feel good at my age, that I was able to pick the iPad up, and just run with it. It has upped the game for me tremendously.

I'm sorry that you don't like it, and see it as just a gimmick that's not useful to you. Fortunately, I don't, and it has greatly enhanced my iPad user experience. I can only see it getting better as it matures, and maybe, even one day becoming something you like to use.

 

[Ludatyk]

Yes, I believe there's probably a lot if iPad Air owners who likely find Stage Manager difficult to comprehend, because the user base of the iPad Air vs the Pro are different. I think we can agree that iPad Pro users (compared to iPad Air users) are likely more willing to learn the intricacies of iPadOS.

I disagee. As I noted early... iPad Air vs Pro argument is irrelevant, I think Stage Manager annoyance comes from the fact you cannot move windows around freely (to some degree). It's not that it's difficult to comprehend... who doesn't understand how to resize a window and move them around, its elementary.

It becomes complicated when you want to have 4 apps open simultaneously. That's when it becomes clunky. Once everything is set, I do think it's really cool! But getting everything set up is unnecessarily complicated.

Tbh, I think the word you want to use is clunky... not complicated. The beauty of an iPad is a kid to a grandparent can use it... Apple did a presentation discussing this. I think Apple mindset is to not make a feature of an iPad to the point it becomes complicated for the user.

However, can it be clunky... absolutely. But I think this more so due to the size of the iPad display and I find Stage Manager better suited for an external display.

I am glad that you pointed out that you dont have a Mac, you use PC. I think this is where a lot of our disconnect comes from. I don't think you're fully aware of the amount of synergy MacOS and iPadOS already share. Spotlight, the Dock, Control Center, Notification Center, Stage Manager, Siri, every single keyboard command, the list goes on. Going from a Mac to an iPad Pro (especially with a keyboard) is already very similar! And the adoption process has been both ways, features going from iPadOS to MacOS. Launchpad on MacOS was taken right out of iPadOS (still iOS on iPad at that time.) This process has been continuous. Every year, slowly but surely the iPad has evolved more and more similar to MacOS as the technology has advanced.

I don't think there's a disconnect... I don't have a Mac, but I was a Mac user for nearly 10 years. I get there is synergy between macOS and iPadOS. There are features like Universal Control and SideBar to get the most out of the two devices. But in the end, I think Apple prefers the iPad to carve out its own path.

I don't want macOS on iPad. But I can say, having extensively used both platforms, I can tell you which multi task is better, and multitasking via Mission Control is straight up better than anything on the iPad. I think you can agree that since you dont use MacOS, how can you really argue which one is better? You would want it too if you knew how much better it was than App Expose.

I'm not arguing whether Mission Control is better than App Expose... I'm acknowledging that iPadOS has their version of Mission Control. You claim you don't want macOS on an iPad, but the way you are discussing your annoyances with iPadOS... that's how you seem.

 

[Boidem]

I like it because my desktop doesn't get all cluttered up with various apps, so I don't need to use Spaces as much. I have different Spaces for Browsing/Internets, Communications (so Mail, WhatsApp, Messages etc), and others depending on what I'm doing, be it Photoshop, Lightroom, Premier or whatever. I can have related apps tucked neatly into the different Spaces, and it just makes things a bit tidier and easier to use. Took a little getting used to, but I'm happy with it now.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

I disagee. As I noted early... iPad Air vs Pro argument is irrelevant, I think Stage Manager annoyance comes from the fact you cannot move windows around freely (to some degree). It's not that it's difficult to comprehend... who doesn't understand how to resize a window and move them around, its elementary.


Tbh, I think the word you want to use is clunky... not complicated. The beauty of an iPad is a kid to a grandparent can use it... Apple did a presentation discussing this. I think Apple mindset is to not make a feature of an iPad to the point it becomes complicated for the user.

However, can it be clunky... absolutely. But I think this more so due to the size of the iPad display and I find Stage Manager better suited for an external display.


I don't think there's a disconnect... I don't have a Mac, but I was a Mac user for nearly 10 years. I get there is synergy between macOS and iPadOS. There are features like Universal Control and SideBar to get the most out of the two devices. But in the end, I think Apple prefers the iPad to carve out its own path.


I'm not arguing whether Mission Control is better than App Expose... I'm acknowledging that iPadOS has their version of Mission Control. You claim you don't want macOS on an iPad, but the way you are discussing your annoyances with iPadOS... that's how you seem.

I respect your opinion, and appreciate the thoughtful discourse. We disagree on some things, no bid deal.

When it comes to Stage Manager and the decision to not (as of yet) implement a Mission Control style multitask interface, I find it perplexing to not utilize a feature that works so well and runs on the exact same hardware. I do respect the ambition to build iPadOS from the ground floor. But like I said, for iPadOS to share so many features already with MacOS, to force us iPadOS users to use (what I consider) a worse way to multitask, just for the sake of being different than MacOS, is frustrating.

I do appreciate the user-friendly approach to iPadOS. To your point, a grandparent can pick it up and put it to use. I think that’s what the iPads, iPad minis, and iPad Airs are for. That’s also what I meant when I use the “training-wheels” description. Stage Manager is a very hand-holding approach to window management. Why gate-keep Stage Manager to the power devices, and in turn, power users, but then choose to make it so limited? (I don’t buy that it’s hardware related, Apple got caught fibbing about that and now it’s on 2018 hardware due to public demand) And while I’m certainly happy to have a windowing option, it leaves a lot to be desired, IMO.

External monitor support is a step in the right direction, I’d like to see more steps made on the iPad Pro line that suit power users.

 

[CC88]

Interesting, but I would not want my iPad screen on with it closed. It gets the iPad hot when you do that, which can be very harmful to your device. I like my solution better. Just full screen a black background in the photo's app. Done deal, and doesn't have to be closed.

I don't have any notice about that, at least on my M1 ipad.

 

[bondr006]

I don't have any notice about that, at least on my M1 ipad.

Thanks for sharing that! I will stick to my solution for now. No chance for overheating, and leaves the iPad open, and conveniently available.

 

[Ludatyk]

When it comes to Stage Manager and the decision to not (as of yet) implement a Mission Control style multitask interface, I find it perplexing to not utilize a feature that works so well and runs on the exact same hardware. I do respect the ambition to build iPadOS from the ground floor. But like I said, for iPadOS to share so many features already with MacOS, to force us iPadOS users to use (what I consider) a worse way to multitask, just for the sake of being different than MacOS, is frustrating.

Don't get me wrong, Mission Control style looks good.

But after some thinking on this subject... Mission Control wouldn't be a good fit on iPadOS. Think about it, as iPad users... most keep apps open in which could lead to 20+ apps in the background whereas Mac users typically don't have many windows open, definitely not 20+ windows (or I could be wrong).

Imagine having Mission Control on iPadOS and having apps scattered around, it could look worst on the iPad screen. App Expose fits iPadOS.... user is presented with a grid of apps in which that can scroll horizontally to do a bit of multitasking.

Now you might be thinking of replacing App Expose with Mission Control when Stage Manager is enabled, but I think consistency will be the problem. Users having Mission Control when Stage Manager enabled, but App Expose when Stage Manager disabled... now that would be odd.

Why gate-keep Stage Manager to the power devices, and in turn, power users, but then choose to make it so limited? (I don’t buy that it’s hardware related, Apple got caught fibbing about that and now it’s on 2018 hardware due to public demand) And while I’m certainly happy to have a windowing option, it leaves a lot to be desired, IMO.

And my response to this... give it time. We are on version one of Stage Manager, and as iPad users there haven't been a resizing window environment. I think you desire totality of Stage Manager with version one, and you should know it's a process with Apple.

 

[bcortens]

Don't get me wrong, Mission Control style looks good.

But after some thinking on this subject... Mission Control wouldn't be a good fit on iPadOS. Think about it, as iPad users... most keep apps open in which could lead to 20+ apps in the background whereas Mac users typically don't have many windows open, definitely not 20+ windows (or I could be wrong).

This is wrong. Mission Control for iPad would not NEED to have all 20 windows open in the background but would likely use the same priority suspend and kill as the existing system.
Additionally I currently have about 70 windows spread across 9 spaces on my Mac... so far far more than 20... (Never mind how many tabs that is in Safari windows... didn't even bother to try to count)

Imagine having Mission Control on iPadOS and having apps scattered around, it could look worst on the iPad screen. App Expose fits iPadOS.... user is presented with a grid of apps in which that can scroll horizontally to do a bit of multitasking.

Again you're misunderstanding the paradigm. Mission control is 2 pieces:
Spaces: which would replace app expose, a horizontally scrolling list of open 'spaces' at the top, a space can be:

• Single fullscreen app
• Split-screen apps
• Resizable window space

Expose: Which would allow each resizable space to zoom out and view all windows in that space

Now you might be thinking of replacing App Expose with Mission Control when Stage Manager is enabled, but I think consistency will be the problem. Users having Mission Control when Stage Manager enabled, but App Expose when Stage Manager disabled... now that would be odd.

And my response to this... give it time. We are on version one of Stage Manager, and as iPad users there haven't been a resizing window environment. I think you desire totality of Stage Manager with version one, and you should know it's a process with Apple.

Ideally you have an expanding circle of complexity:

1. No multitasking
2. Split view and slide-over multitasking
3. Resizable window multitasking

A version of mission control as described above allows all of these to work together without ever having to introduce a new interaction paradigm.

When all multitasking is turned off the multitasking view is just a scrolling list of fullscreen apps

When split view is on you can see your apps in split views at the top of the screen.

When resizable is on you get the option to not only put your apps wherever you want but you can use the new expose function to see them all...


Stage manager has all the hallmarks of someone getting a bright idea and no one telling them no... it doesn't get iPad used to multi windowing in a friendly way it instead forces us to choose between something we like, the existing multitasking switcher, and resizable windows with no way to get both. We either get stage manager or a good multitasking switcher not both.

Also I would not call the multi-tasking switcher app-expose as that term already means 'seeing all windows in the current application'
This used to be a feature of iPad OS and is still a feature on macOS where you can see all windows of each application. On iPad OS this feature was replaced by the shelf (I think that's the name), the list of open app windows that appears when you touch the three dots window helper for the app - I still think of it as app expose though.


EDIT: Gifs 2 and three have a more primitive list of spaces/apps at the top than gif 1 - gif 1 was me continuing to refine the idea and I just took my existing gifs for the other ideas and dropped them in here.

 

[Ludatyk]

This is wrong. Mission Control for iPad would not NEED to have all 20 windows open in the background but would likely use the same priority suspend and kill as the existing system.
Additionally I currently have about 70 windows spread across 9 spaces on my Mac... so far far more than 20... (Never mind how many tabs that is in Safari windows... didn't even bother to try to count)

Smh.. this is the problem I’m trying to get Mac users to understand. Resizing windows environment has existed for years on the Mac… this is the FIRST time for iPad users. App Expose is a feature that is much easier to grasp than Mission Control, especially since it‘s been on the iPad for years.

Again you're misunderstanding the paradigm. Mission control is 2 pieces:
Spaces: which would replace app expose, a horizontally scrolling list of open 'spaces' at the top, a space can be:

• Single fullscreen app
• Split-screen apps
• Resizable window space

Expose: Which would allow each resizable space to zoom out and view all windows in that space

I understand how Mission Control works… again, I was a Mac user. I’m trying to explain the psychology of iPad users… to present them with Mission Control would be the same as showing them Stage Manager. Meaning… some wouldn’t care for it.

As I’ve noted, Mission Control style looks good.. never said it was bad. It just wouldn’t fit for the iPad... the bulk of iPad users come from entry level iPads.

Gifs 2 and three have a more primitive list of spaces/apps at the top than gif 1 - gif 1 was me continuing to refine the idea and I just took my existing gifs for the other ideas and dropped them in here.

I’ve seen this before… you shown them. They look great.. but Stage Manager comes close to what you are showing… “spaces“ is recent apps. But instead of it being on top from your concept.. it’s on the side.

 

[Jedimindtrick]

But after some thinking on this subject... Mission Control wouldn't be a good fit on iPadOS. Think about it, as iPad users... most keep apps open in which could lead to 20+ apps in the background

I was thinking more of Mission Control only being activated once Stage Manager is activated (almost as a feature of Stage Manager) and that you could view the 4 apps you have active in the Stage via Mission Control. It would make having windows piled on top of one another much easier to access and navigate (and there wouldn't be the need for iPadOS to move all of your windows around for you because you'd be able to find them quickly via Mission Control.) Activated by a gesture, like the 3 finger swipe up on the screen (or trackpad like it is on MacOS). Or even an icon that appears in the Dock. They could also have this gesture invoke the Side Tray (not sure what they're calling the Quick App Switcher on the left). So when in iPadOS Mission Control view, you could see all 4 apps open, and your Side Tray. That would be so helpful for me to quickly access that with an easy to learn gesture!

If Stage Manager on iPadOS worked in this way, I would always keep it on. Again this is what I meant about the synergy between iPadOS and MacOS. If we're entering a new era on iPadOS with windowed apps (becoming one step closer to a MacOS experience) then let's implement a proper window management interface along with that.

Because you're right, if I never closed out all of my apps, there could be 20+ apps open, which would be a mess.

 

[bcortens]

Smh.. this is the problem I’m trying to get Mac users to understand. Resizing windows environment has existed for years on the Mac… this is the FIRST time for iPad users. App Expose is a feature that is much easier to grasp than Mission Control, especially since it‘s been on the iPad for years.

Stage manager is not intuitive though. The way windows jump around while attempting to move and resize them is the opposite of intuitive. App Expose (in its current grid form) is not that old, there was a horizontal list of apps before that, additionally you ignored my concentric circles of complexity example. What I am calling for is that resizing is something you turn on after you turn on multitasking. GIF 1 shows Split View only multitasking in this system which is no more complex than the current system and actually gives users a better sense of their current location than even the current grid.

Resizing would work similarly to stage manager, where you can enable resizing in an app group/space but unlike stage manager it doesn’t then break the multitasking switcher… you can resize within a space and then use Mission Control to get a high level overview of where things are.

I understand how Mission Control works… again, I was a Mac user. I’m trying to explain the psychology of iPad users… to present them with Mission Control would be the same as showing them Stage Manager. Meaning… some wouldn’t care for it.

As I’ve noted, Mission Control style looks good.. never said it was bad. It just wouldn’t fit for the iPad... the bulk of iPad users come from entry level iPads.

Then why have stage manager at all? If the basic iPad user can’t understand my version of Mission Control why would they be able to understand Stage manager? Stage manager is far worse from an intuitive understanding of how things are changing than my concept of Mission Control. Stage manager breaks the current multitasking switcher and just leaves you with a bunch of stacked app windows for each app… There is no intuitive understanding of where each window is (which is possible to have in both my version and in the existing multitasking switcher).

I’ve seen this before… you shown them. They look great.. but Stage Manager comes close to what you are showing… “spaces“ is recent apps. But instead of it being on top from your concept.. it’s on the side.

And yet you don’t seem to understand my concept is about keeping windows organized so users always know where they are. It is about using this to give people a sense of location which stage manager lacks.

No it doesn’t - recent apps is a short list of most recently used apps on the side, it is not a high level overview of where every window on your system is located. Recent apps is a within ‘stage’ feature not a high level window management feature.

The problem with stage manager is that it exactly does not have what I have shown. It does not have an easy way to zoom out and see everything from a high level because the multitasking switcher is just broken if you have lots of windows when Stage manager is enabled.

 

[bcortens]

I was thinking more of Mission Control only being activated once Stage Manager is activated (almost as a feature of Stage Manager) and that you could view the 4 apps you have active in the Stage via Mission Control. It would make having windows piled on top of one another much easier to access and navigate (and there wouldn't be the need for iPadOS to move all of your windows around for you because you'd be able to find them quickly via Mission Control.) Activated by a gesture, like the 3 finger swipe up on the screen (or trackpad like it is on MacOS). Or even an icon that appears in the Dock. They could also have this gesture invoke the Side Tray (not sure what they're calling the Quick App Switcher on the left). So when in iPadOS Mission Control view, you could see all 4 apps open, and your Side Tray. That would be so helpful for me to quickly access that with an easy to learn gesture!

If Stage Manager on iPadOS worked in this way, I would always keep it on. Again this is what I meant about the synergy between iPadOS and MacOS. If we're entering a new era on iPadOS with windowed apps (becoming one step closer to a MacOS experience) then let's implement a proper window management interface along with that.

Because you're right, if I never closed out all of my apps, there could be 20+ apps open, which would be a mess.

See my GIFs above - Mission Control would make far more sense than stage manager because it integrates everything in a cohesive windowing system where every window has a home that can be found spatially.

Edit: Mission Control is the name I’m giving not to resizing but to the window grouping and management where you can zoom out to see all of your app groups and spaces … Mission Control style multitasking does not require that resizing be turned on.

 

[Ludatyk]

Stage manager is not intuitive though. The way windows jump around while attempting to move and resize them is the opposite of intuitive.

Stage Manager not intuitive? Not sure about that. But the way windows jumping around, and resizing has more to do with how Apple hasn't given devs more tools to scale them properly.

Then why have stage manager at all? If the basic iPad user can’t understand my version of Mission Control why would they be able to understand Stage manager? Stage manager is far worse from an intuitive understanding of how things are changing than my concept of Mission Control. Stage manager breaks the current multitasking switcher and just leaves you with a bunch of stacked app windows for each app… There is no intuitive understanding of where each window is (which is possible to have in both my version and in the existing multitasking switcher).

Never said they can't understand... Stage Manager is on the iPad to provide a resizing window environment, but Apple kept App Expose on the iPad due to its familiarity. App Expose is feature iPad users are familiar with... you might not like it, but plenty of iPad users do.

The problem with stage manager is that it exactly does not have what I have shown. It does not have an easy way to zoom out and see everything from a high level because the multitasking switcher is just broken if you have lots of windows when Stage manager is enabled.

If you want to see everything, then that's when App Expose comes into play. Would I like to see your concept on an iPad? Absolutely! It's dope... but I think Stage Manager is not as horrible as you make it out to be.