Thoughts on Windows 365?

[sunny5]

Meet Windows 365 | Windows 365

Deploy and manage Cloud PCs with Windows 365, a Microsoft virtualization solution designed for hybrid work. Find the right Windows 365 plan for your employees.

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This is not Microsoft 365, it's Windows 365. It's a cloud PC service that you can use Windows on any device including Mac. I think it runs on the web browser. Might be a good alternative for Parallels but it's kinda expensive. I'm not sure if Windows 365 has a limitation compared to a real PC running Windows OS.

Any thoughts?

 

[CWallace]

It's relatively expensive for single users looking to replicate an Intel VM experience on Apple Silicon. Two CPUs and 4GB of RAM runs $32 a month and it's around $100 a month for 4 CPUs and 16GB of RAM, which I imagine is about the minimum configuration most folks using Parallels on Mac are running (splitting their Mac's CPU cores and RAM 50/50 with the Windows VM).

 

[jerryk]

It really depends on your situation. If you want access to your Windows PC environment from any device it is great. You can get to your PC environment on a Mac, PC, iPad, or another platform. You just need a modern browser. All computing occurs remotely and by default, the data never leaves the cloud so crashes are not an issue. It is targeted at users that want this access from everywhere and should sell well in that market.

The product is squarely (currently only) targeted for business users and I can see using this for some of my business work, rather than bringing data down to a local machine running windows and performing work locally, and sending data back and forth.

I would imaging there would limitations for people that needed high-performance I/O between the local display and the remote PC. So things like gaming might not have a stellar experience. But, the product is targeted at business use where this is likely not an issue.

 

[Digitalguy]

You can get the same result at a cheaper price (over the long term), but buying (or reusing) a Windows desktop or laptop and remoting into it from any device. And the Windows 365 service itself (contrary to Office 365) is based on remote desktop. I have calculated that on average you would have paid an equivalent Windows desktop in around 1 to 1.5 years (and this is going new, if you go used you it would be earlier).

The big difference with Parallels is that Parallels works offline too. So if you have no internet connection (plane, some holiday places, temporary issues with you ISP) or if you have poor internet connection in some places remote desktop and Windows 365 are either not going to work or work poorly, while a VM will continue to work normally

 

[Internaut]

I like the idea and would like to try but, at this point, it seems to be out of reach for a private person. When I attempted to try, it asked for my “work or school” email address; a Hotmail address isn't going to work.

 

[Manatlt]

You can get the same result at a cheaper price (over the long term), but buying (or reusing) a Windows desktop or laptop and remoting into it from any device. And the Windows 365 service itself (contrary to Office 365) is based on remote desktop. I have calculated that on average you would have paid an equivalent Windows desktop in around 1 to 1.5 years (and this is going new, if you go used you it would be earlier).

The big difference with Parallels is that Parallels works offline too. So if you have no internet connection (plane, some holiday places, temporary issues with you ISP) or if you have poor internet connection in some places remote desktop and Windows 365 are either not going to work or work poorly, while a VM will continue to work normally

You are forgetting you cannot carry Parallels everywhere unless you have a laptop. You can’t use Parallels on the iPad, tablet, any mobile device or Windows.

You can all of this with Windows 365 though.

 

[Digitalguy]

You are forgetting you cannot carry Parallels everywhere unless you have a laptop. You can’t use Parallels on the iPad, tablet, any mobile device or Windows.

You can all of this with Windows 365 though.

You are probably mixing/confusing my 2 points. In the second point, which was a reply to "Might be a good alternative for Parallels" it's obvious that I am talking about a Macbooks, since Parallels doesn't run on iPad...
My first point was instead that it's less expensive on the (not so) long run to remote desktop into a Windows device, which you can do from any mobile device with an internet connection. So there is no instance where you can use Windows 365 and not remote desktop, since Windows 365 IS remote desktop....

 

[dogslobber]

No.

 

[Shirasaki]

Well, I should have the right plan to use it, but I can’t find a need where Remote Desktop to my PC wont cut. Or maybe just good old teamviewer thingy. Limited storage and potentially high network traffic charge means “remote gaming” is out of question for now, and personal user might run into high bill each month.

If I’d pick it, I’d first look at Azure instead of going straight to this. On demand computing is more flexible imo than a virtual machine in the cloud.

 

[Gnattu]

TBH I think it is cheaper to buy a separate Windows Machine and just Remote Desktop to that machine

 

[Digitalguy]

I'll make an example of what I use to remote into.

A Windows desktop a bought used in 2016 from a company that was upgrading their devices and selling them.
$400 for an i7-4770 with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM, which IMO is a decent price even 5 years later...
Since then I have made 3 upgrades:
- 6TB drive mainly to store my movie collection ($135)
- 16GB RAM for a total of 32GB (bought used for $80)
- a RTX 2070 super (which is overkill but I found one in 2019 for $350 while looking for a smaller one and at that price it was a good deal back then)
So even with the RTX, which wasn't necessary, this thing cost me under $1000, which I would pay in a few months with similar specs of Windows 365
I use it every day in remote desktop not only from iPad (adapting automatically the aspect ratio via Jump Desktop) but also from other weaker laptops which have less RAM or less power, but have touch and pen and suddenly become "very powerful" this way... And by the way it's extremely quiet even under load (the only windows device I can use with Zoom without hearing the fan), unless I push the GPU to the limits.
And since I mainly use it in remote desktop (other than when I use zoom) I don't even need to have next to me.

Since I got my M1 Mac mini I am also using it to have Windows on it.

 

[jerryk]

I think people are missing the point of Windows 365.

As it exists today, it is for business people or others who need access to their Windows "computer" from anywhere, and from remote computers/devices. It is targetting people that work in a hybrid environment (work, home, coffee shop) or on the road and wants the same computer environment (files, icon, desktop all the same) wherever they happen to be.

The current versions are "Business" and "Enterprise". And for these users the pricing is fine. With it, the company's IT team can onboard someone in minutes and give them a new "PC" with the corporate environment from thousands of miles away.

 

[Digitalguy]

I think people are missing the point of Windows 365.

As it exists today, it is for business people or others who need access to their Windows "computer" from anywhere, and from remote computers/devices. It is targetting people that work in a hybrid environment (work, home, coffee shop) or on the road and wants the same computer environment (files, icon, desktop all the same) wherever they happen to be.

The current versions are "Business" and "Enterprise". And for these users the pricing is fine. And the IT team can onboard someone in minutes and give them a new "PC" with the corporate environment from thousands of miles away.

I think Windows 365 makes sense only when it's bought from a corporation for their employees as it's much easier to manage than physical hardware. But for use for a single person, even for work (e.g. a freelancer), it makes little economic sense compared to remote desktop and the main reason why some of these people will get it (MS is not preventing anyone from getting a business version, they have only stopped the free trials) is because they don't know any better (not tech-savvy enough to know about some valid remote desktop alternatives, which are just as good or better and cheaper, which makes sense since most people are not tech-savvy).
There can be some exceptions, and by that I mean tech savvy people who prefer this because they don't have a fixed home with an internet connection, or simply prefer paying more than owning physical hardware for some reason...

 

[jerryk]

I think Windows 365 makes sense only when it's bought from a corporation for their employees as it's much easier to manage than physical hardware. But for use for a single person, even for work (e.g. a freelancer), it makes little economic sense compared to remote desktop and the main reason why some of these people will get it (MS is not preventing anyone from getting a business version, they have only stopped the free trials) is because they don't know any better (not tech-savvy enough to know about some valid remote desktop alternatives, which are just as good or better and cheaper, which makes sense since most people are not tech-savvy).
There can be some exceptions, and by that I mean tech savvy people who prefer this because they don't have a fixed home with an internet connection, or simply prefer paying more than owning physical hardware for some reason...

Agree for a casual user, but maybe not for someone using Windows PC for work.

I use my Windows systems for professional work. I am thinking hard of consolidating down to Macs as my local computer, and an iPad for casual media consumption. From the Mac or iPad I could access the Windows 365 system and have my files all there via OneDrive which I have from my Office 365 subscription.

I am completely tech-savvy, with MS in CompSci. But with decades of spending time playing IT support in addition to billable work, I realize it is a money-losing proposition even if I am only supporting myself. The IT work takes away from the time I am building products for my company, charities, or paying clients. So even though I have the infrastructure to play IT guy (1 Gbps WAN/LAN, house-wide Ethernet, Unifi routers, switches, and multiple access points, 24 TB NAS, VPN, etc.) I find it to be a distraction.

 

[Digitalguy]

Agree for a casual user, but maybe not for someone using Windows PC for work.

I use my Windows systems for professional work. I am thinking hard of consolidating down to Macs as my local computer, and an iPad for casual media consumption. From the Mac or iPad I could access the Windows 365 system and have my files all there via OneDrive which I have from my Office 365 subscription.

I am completely tech-savvy, with MS in CompSci. But with decades of spending time playing IT support in addition to billable work, I realize it is a money-losing proposition even if I am only supporting myself. The IT work takes away from the time I am building products for my company, charities, or paying clients. So even though I have the infrastructure to play IT guy (1 Gbps WAN/LAN, house-wide Ethernet, Unifi routers, switches, and multiple access points, 24 TB NAS, VPN, etc.) I find it to be a distraction.

It's been 5 years that I have the desktop I mentioned above and other than upgrading it I have had no technical issues. Supporting other people who are not tech-savvy and mess up with software and hardware is indeed time-consuming, but supporting oneself if you are tech-savvy is not in my opinion.... I have never been distracted by my hardware, if anything the couple of times where I have upgraded it was something I had fun doing it... Other than that no time wasted with hardware (software may be a different thing, but software would be an issue on a cloud server just like on a local pc) on my side and much less money spent, so on this point I can only disagree, but maybe I have been particularly lucky....

 

[Gnattu]

The current versions are "Business" and "Enterprise". And for these users the pricing is fine. With it, the company's IT team can onboard someone in minutes and give them a new "PC" with the corporate environment from thousands of miles away.

You are right, but most of us only want a Windows environment for personal use and this Cloud base solution is just too expensive.

 

[jerryk]

It's been 5 years that I have the desktop I mentioned above and other than upgrading it I have had no technical issues. Supporting other people who are not tech-savvy and mess up with software and hardware is indeed time-consuming, but supporting oneself if you are tech-savvy is not in my opinion.... I have never been distracted by my hardware, if anything the couple of times where I have upgraded it was something I had fun doing it... Other than that no time wasted with hardware (software may be a different thing, but software would be an issue on a cloud server just like on a local pc) on my side and much less money spent, so on this point I can only disagree, but maybe I have been particularly lucky....

I don't mind working with the hardware, but when you are troubleshooting an intermittently noisy fan, bad memory stick (crashes once a month), or glitchy driver (see these forums) it can lose its charm quickly.

 

[Digitalguy]

I don't mind working with the hardware, but when you are troubleshooting an intermittently noisy fan, bad memory stick (crashes once a month), or glitchy driver (see these forums) it can lose its charm quickly.

again, as mentioned above the desktop has been extremely quiet even under heavy load (I haven't had similar luck with all my laptops, that's why I find a desktop a better solution), and zero issues with RAM and drivers.
Similarly my M1 mac mini has also been quite and reliable so far

 

[Manatlt]

I'll make an example of what I use to remote into.

A Windows desktop a bought used in 2016 from a company that was upgrading their devices and selling them.
$400 for an i7-4770 with 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM, which IMO is a decent price even 5 years later...
Since then I have made 3 upgrades:
- 6TB drive mainly to store my movie collection ($135)
- 16GB RAM for a total of 32GB (bought used for $80)
- a RTX 2070 super (which is overkill but I found one in 2019 for $350 while looking for a smaller one and at that price it was a good deal back then)
So even with the RTX, which wasn't necessary, this thing cost me under $1000, which I would pay in a few months with similar specs of Windows 365
I use it every day in remote desktop not only from iPad (adapting automatically the aspect ratio via Jump Desktop) but also from other weaker laptops which have less RAM or less power, but have touch and pen and suddenly become "very powerful" this way... And by the way it's extremely quiet even under load (the only windows device I can use with Zoom without hearing the fan), unless I push the GPU to the limits.
And since I mainly use it in remote desktop (other than when I use zoom) I don't even need to have next to me.

Since I got my M1 Mac mini I am also using it to have Windows on it.

You also need a constant, solid internet connection for that desktop while is of course, very important.

In the US, there are a lot of popular plans with data caps which can be annoying. If you live in countries with unlimited internet like the UK, then yes that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Digitalguy]

You also need a constant, solid internet connection for that desktop while is of course, very important.

In the US, there are a lot of popular plans with data caps which can be annoying. If you live in countries with unlimited internet like the UK, then yes that shouldn't be a problem.

I am fortunate enough to live in a country (Switerland) where we have 10Gb fiber for under $50 a month with no data cap.... I use several hundreds GBs per month, some months even several TBs, never had an issue...
Instead I had an issue with my unlimited mobile plan in roaming... I used lile 50 to 100 GB in roaming in a week (because local internet was too slow) and they threatened to cap my service. Fortunately it was only a one week holiday....

 

[michalm]

I use the same thing, but I built it myself in Azure. Costs about £7 a month, as it powers up/down only when I need it. There is also some storage magic to degrade the SSD to HDD when not in use, to save storage costs.

I do not see an average person having the skills and wanting to go as far as I did, thus in my eyes, it really is a good proposition, as it takes away the "IT" overhead, most wouldn't want to deal with.

 

[jerryk]

I am fortunate enough to live in a country (Switerland) where we have 10Gb fiber for under $50 a month with no data cap.... I use several hundreds GBs per month, some months even several TBs, never had an issue...
Instead I had an issue with my unlimited mobile plan in roaming... I used lile 50 to 100 GB in roaming in a week (because local internet was too slow) and they threatened to cap my service. Fortunately it was only a one week holiday....

Wow. We cannot even get symmetrical 1 Gbps fiber and I live 20 miles from Apple HQ! The best we can do is 1.3 Gbps down/ 60 Mbps up asymmetric cable at $120 USD/mo.

 

[jerryk]

I use the same thing, but I built it myself in Azure. Costs about £7 a month, as it powers up/down only when I need it. There is also some storage magic to degrade the SSD to HDD when not in use, to save storage costs.

I do not see an average person having the skills and wanting to go as far as I did, thus in my eyes, it really is a good proposition, as it takes away the "IT" overhead, most wouldn't want to deal with.

Yep. I have Google Cloud, Azure, and AWS account for various projects. Which each cloud service it is nice to know my data and code is backed up in numerous places. Also, it is nice to be able to get additional GPU/TPU power for my ML/AI work for just a few cents.

 

[Digitalguy]

Wow. We cannot even get 1 GB fiber and I live 20 miles from Apple HQ! The best we can do is 1.3 Gbps down/ 60 Mbps up asymmetric cable. $120 USD/mo

I know this is one of the nice aspects of living in on of the main Swiss cities, the best fiber in the world (10Gbs symmetrical) at the cheapest price, but as everything, we have other "issues". Since the main city often top the world charts for quality of life, everyone wants to come and work/live here, which makes rents very expensive (70% of the population rents in Switzerland).
I am sure many people would gladly pay 10 times their fiber in exchange for paying half the rent if the could choose... Here a 3 bedrooms apartment costs $3000 per month...

 

[bobcomer]

Wow. We cannot even get symmetrical 1 Gbps fiber and I live 20 miles from Apple HQ! The best we can do is 1.3 Gbps down/ 60 Mbps up asymmetric cable at $120 USD/mo.

You have it nice! My home has 50Mb down DSL. The only other thing available is cable. (~400Mb down with 1Tb cap) And I live near a google node. No fiber available anywhere near. Nobody wants to spend on infrastructure if they can get away with it.