Thread and HomeHubs

[Someirishguy]

I have a HomeKit network with about 42 devices and 6 HomeHubs. Four of the HomeHubs support thread (a new Apple TV and 3 x HomePod Minis). Two don’t (HomePod OG and Apple TV 4K OG). I can’t control which one is acting as the HomeHub. If one of the HomeHubs that doesn’t support thread is active, does this mean thread devises will not set-up/work correctly?

The question is hypothetical currently, but will presumably not be as time passes. This article makes it sounds like it will be a problem:

If you see a 'Thread Border Router Required' or 'Needs Thread Network' alert on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support (HK)

The accessory you are trying to set up requires a Thread border router and your Apple device does not support Thread.

support.apple.com

 

[TonyC28]

I have a HomeKit network with about 42 devices and 6 HomeHubs. Four of the HomeHubs support thread (a new Apple TV and 3 x HomePod Minis). Two don’t (HomePod OG and Apple TV 4K OG). I can’t control which one is acting as the HomeHub. If one of the HomeHubs that doesn’t support thread is active, does this mean thread devises will not set-up/work correctly?

The question is hypothetical currently, but will presumably not be as time passes. This article makes it sounds like it will be a problem:

If you see a 'Thread Border Router Required' or 'Needs Thread Network' alert on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support (HK)

The accessory you are trying to set up requires a Thread border router and your Apple device does not support Thread.

support.apple.com

I have a few Wemo Minis in my Home. In my experience when my OG HomePods (stereo pair) take over as the hub the Wemos don’t work properly. They first begin to respond slowly and miss directions from automations, then sometimes stop working at all. With the Eve app I can see that they are not connected with thread anymore but instead Bluetooth. Restarting the OG HomePods and forcing a HomePod Mini to act as the hub instantly solves the issue.

 

[SalisburySam]

I’ve switched from several iHome smart devices to Wemo ones with Thread for Homekit. I also do not have any Homepods and instead use a new AppleTV4k as a hub, and it supports Thread. I’ve found the Thread network to be very good and just gets better as more devices are added. So far, I have 11 smartplugs and a wall switch, so fairly small number and in a very difficult house for networking (1905 build, very thick plaster and lath walls). Very pleased so far. I wish the Home app had much more flexibility for automations to include on and off as specific times, not just 30, 45, or 60 minutes before sunset. With the new architecture, whatever that means, maybe Apple is giving some love to HomeKit and it will blossom into a more robust home automation product. One can dream.

 

[RoTAM]

I have a HomeKit network with about 42 devices and 6 HomeHubs. Four of the HomeHubs support thread (a new Apple TV and 3 x HomePod Minis). Two don’t (HomePod OG and Apple TV 4K OG).

So out of curiosity, what’s the experience been like in the time since you posted this?
Just wondering as I have a not-quite-the-same but similar question (3x hubs but only 1x of them is thread capable and stubbornly stuck in Standby. Thread accessories revert to bluetooth only..)

 

[Someirishguy]

So out of curiosity, what’s the experience been like in the time since you posted this?
Just wondering as I have a not-quite-the-same but similar question (3x hubs but only 1x of them is thread capable and stubbornly stuck in Standby. Thread accessories revert to bluetooth only..)

Since then I’ve replaced my OG HomePod with the new one (which is far more reliable) and got another HomePod mini (so now I’m 6 thread compatible hubs to 1 that isn’t). My OG Apple TV 4K is rarely the hub, and if I notice that it is I restart it (even though I’m not sure this is necessary) - which stops it being the hub. I prefer my 3rd gen Apple TV 4K to be the hub (as it is connected to Ethernet). If I notice it’s not, I usually restart a HomePod Mini or two until it takes over. Once it’s the hub, it’ll usually stays the hub unless I restart (or upgrade) the Apple TV.

Regardless, I’ve not added any thread devices to my Home, so can’t comment on that. But generally speaking my Home has been working reasonably well since upgrading to the new HomeKit architecture. I have the odd problem with one of my cameras, but time usually resolves it. I used to have more problems with by lights (Philips hue) and thermostats (Tado), but I spent some time optimising the location of their respective hubs and now they’re rock solid.

 

[SalisburySam]

Home, Homekit, and the entire smart home universe continues to malfunction for me. I have an eeroPro mesh network with Thread support on current network eeroOS. After replacing a bunch of iHome smartplugs with new WeMo Thread devices, my reliability improved substantially. After getting an AppleTV4K with Thread support and set up as a hub, I saw a minimal improvement. After getting new iPhone13mini’s for self and wife and upgrading all to iOS/tvOS 16-something all seemed good. After upgrading our iPadAir and iPadPro to ipadOS 16-something everything still worked ok. After upgrading the Homekit architecture during the 48 seconds it was available to do so, things still seemed good even though I didn’t update my Ethernet-connected 2017 iMac from Monterey to Ventura.

So after a couple of weeks of fairly smooth sailing, I’m now back to getting the dreaded “No Response” on some of the WeMo smartplugs. Yes, easily fixed by unplugging/waiting/replugging but I had hoped that exercise to be no longer necessary. Is there any hope the Homekit ecosystem will EVER be as reliable as my X-10 powerline controls back in the ‘80s?

 

[Someirishguy]

Home, Homekit, and the entire smart home universe continues to malfunction for me. I have an eeroPro mesh network with Thread support on current network eeroOS. After replacing a bunch of iHome smartplugs with new WeMo Thread devices, my reliability improved substantially. After getting an AppleTV4K with Thread support and set up as a hub, I saw a minimal improvement. After getting new iPhone13mini’s for self and wife and upgrading all to iOS/tvOS 16-something all seemed good. After upgrading our iPadAir and iPadPro to ipadOS 16-something everything still worked ok. After upgrading the Homekit architecture during the 48 seconds it was available to do so, things still seemed good even though I didn’t update my Ethernet-connected 2017 iMac from Monterey to Ventura.

So after a couple of weeks of fairly smooth sailing, I’m now back to getting the dreaded “No Response” on some of the WeMo smartplugs. Yes, easily fixed by unplugging/waiting/replugging but I had hoped that exercise to be no longer necessary. Is there any hope the Homekit ecosystem will EVER be as reliable as my X-10 powerline controls back in the ‘80s?

I’ve found that most, not all, of my ‘no response’ issues (I have had many with my Hue and Tado devices) were ultimately caused by ‘network issues’ rather that HomeKit ones (which I originally though). It might be worth trying to identify if distance from hubs or proximity to other devices that could cause interference is a factor. For example I found that the Hue hub can interfere with the Tado hub, especially during periods of heavy wireless congestion (e.g. when everyone is getting home from work etc.), so I keep them on opposite sides or a room (using a 7m Ethernet cable), and I found my Tado hub needs to be about equidistant from thermostats and on the middle floor of my house, and my Hue hub needs to be on a windowsill or the garden lights do the no response dance. Trial and error. On the other hand, my Circle view camera keeps disconnecting and reconnecting, despite being only metres from a mesh disk…

 

[RoTAM]

Since then I’ve replaced my OG HomePod with the new one (which is far more reliable) and got another HomePod mini (so now I’m 6 thread compatible hubs to 1 that isn’t). My OG Apple TV 4K is rarely the hub, and if I notice that it is I restart it (even though I’m not sure this is necessary) - which stops it being the hub. I prefer my 3rd gen Apple TV 4K to be the hub (as it is connected to Ethernet). If I notice it’s not, I usually restart a HomePod Mini or two until it takes over. Once it’s the hub, it’ll usually stays the hub unless I restart (or upgrade) the Apple TV.

Regardless, I’ve not added any thread devices to my Home, so can’t comment on that. But generally speaking my Home has been working reasonably well since upgrading to the new HomeKit architecture. I have the odd problem with one of my cameras, but time usually resolves it. I used to have more problems with by lights (Philips hue) and thermostats (Tado), but I spent some time optimising the location of their respective hubs and now they’re rock solid.

Ah ok, oops sorry, I didn’t realise you don’t have thread devices yet. I think I’ve given mine enough time to form a mesh but they still haven’t.
So I guess I’ll just temporarily disable both Apple TV 4K 2017’s as hubs sometime and see if having the HomePod mini as the sole remaining hub makes a difference. If so then I guess having only one thread border router might be a bit iffy if it’s often/always a ‘Standby’ hub

 

[Someirishguy]

Ah ok, oops sorry, I didn’t realise you don’t have thread devices yet. I think I’ve given mine enough time to form a mesh but they still haven’t.
So I guess I’ll just temporarily disable both Apple TV 4K 2017’s as hubs sometime and see if having the HomePod mini as the sole remaining hub makes a difference. If so then I guess having only one thread border router might be a bit iffy if it’s often/always a ‘Standby’ hub

I got my first thread device, the Eve Weather. My new Apple TV (with thread) was acting as the hub when I set it up, and set up went very smoothly. You can check the thread status using the Eve app, so I could see as it initially connected via Bluetooth and then thread must have become activated, as it quickly changed to a thread endpoint. It’s been rock solid since, even though the device is half way down my garden.

I then restarted my new Apple TV, which caused the hub to swap to my old Apple TV (no thread). This did not affect the thread connection at all - with the Eve Weather remaining connected via thread no problem. I guess this answers the question of if the active hub must be thread - it doesn’t (as long as one of your hubs is a thread border router).

 

[RoTAM]

I then restarted my new Apple TV, which caused the hub to swap to my old Apple TV (no thread). This did not affect the thread connection at all - with the Eve Weather remaining connected via thread no problem. I guess this answers the question of if the active hub must be thread - it doesn’t (as long as one of your hubs is a thread border router).

Wonderful! Thanks so much for confirming that

Now I just need to work out why I still don't have a thread network... It's been 11 days since I setup HomePod mini as the hub (and now sole hub as I've disabled the old Apple TVs) but still no thread according to the Eve app.
I have an Eve Energy, Eve Weather, Eve Motion and two wemo Smart Plugs which are are all thread capable but still all just 'Bluetooth'.

I'm starting to suspect some kind of interference as I have some wireless security cameras and I wonder if their 2.4GHz base station is being a bit 'noisy'

 

[gwang73]

Wonderful! Thanks so much for confirming that

Now I just need to work out why I still don't have a thread network... It's been 11 days since I setup HomePod mini as the hub (and now sole hub as I've disabled the old Apple TVs) but still no thread according to the Eve app.
I have an Eve Energy, Eve Weather, Eve Motion and two wemo Smart Plugs which are are all thread capable but still all just 'Bluetooth'.

I'm starting to suspect some kind of interference as I have some wireless security cameras and I wonder if their 2.4GHz base station is being a bit 'noisy'

Try rebooting your iPhone. When I setup my Thread devices, it did the same - sticking w/BT. Rebooted my iPhone and then the Thread devices switched to Thread.

 

[Someirishguy]

Wonderful! Thanks so much for confirming that

Now I just need to work out why I still don't have a thread network... It's been 11 days since I setup HomePod mini as the hub (and now sole hub as I've disabled the old Apple TVs) but still no thread according to the Eve app.
I have an Eve Energy, Eve Weather, Eve Motion and two wemo Smart Plugs which are are all thread capable but still all just 'Bluetooth'.

I'm starting to suspect some kind of interference as I have some wireless security cameras and I wonder if their 2.4GHz base station is being a bit 'noisy'

There are a few things you could try, that I’ve found useful for similar problem solving.

First, I would do a hard reset of the HomePod mini (not using the home app - rather the plugging out and holding the top, etc., method). All the recent updates confused a few of my HomePod minis and I needed to do this. Don’t forget to delete the mini from the home app after. Then set it up and leave it alone for a while to configure (say a couple of hours).

Now, make sure you’re using the latest HomePod update.

Make sure all your Eve devices are updated to the latest firmware and you’re using the latest app version.

To rule out ‘interference’. Plug the Eve energy (which also works as a thread router) in as close to the HomePod mini as possible. Use the Eve app to check the status of thread. Go in and out of the tread status section a few times to see if things update from Bluetooth to thread. In can take a few minutes.

Now turn off the Eve Weather and turn in back on in the same room as the HomePod mini and the Eve energy.

It should look like the screen grab:

If this gets thread working. You should now be able to move those devices further away and maintain thread.

If not, try resetting the Eve devices first, and setting them up again in the HomePod mini room.

If that doesn’t work, I’ll try think of something else 🤔

 

[RoTAM]

There are a few things you could try, that I’ve found useful for similar problem solving.

Thanks - I’ve moved away the potential source of interference and will see how that goes for a day, but if no luck I’ll definitely try all those suggestions! 👍

 

[Someirishguy]

Thanks - I’ve moved away the potential source of interference and will see how that goes for a day, but if no luck I’ll definitely try all those suggestions! 👍

It’s sounds to me, as none of your devices have ‘activated’ the thread border router function in your HomePod Mini, that the problem may well lie there (or surely at least one of the devices would be on thread).

The hardware reset has worked well for me solving problems (when all else has failed). Also, matter was only introduced to HomePod Mini in homeOS 16.1, so definitely worth checking you’ve got at least that.

A few more options in here:

If you see a "Thread Border Router Required" alert on your iPhone or iPad

The accessory you are trying to set up requires a Thread border router and your home hub does not support Thread.

support.apple.com

Good luck 🤞🏼

 

[RoTAM]

The hardware reset has worked well for me solving problems

Thanks mate, yep that did the trick.

The HomePod mini was already 16.3.2 so I re-enabled one of the Apple TV 4K 2017’s to keep the Home online, went for the HomePod hard reset (power cycle, hold down, spinning red etc) and lo and behold a thread is active without the HomePod mini even needing to become the Connected hub. Thanks! 🙂

 

[CaptainBlue]

Is there any way to rename the Thread Network? My Nanoleaf lamps have all updated to running on the Thread but its name is MyHomeNN where NN is a number.

Does anyone know how I can change it to something more meaningful, like MI6Surveillance?

 

[cynics]

I have a HomeKit network with about 42 devices and 6 HomeHubs. Four of the HomeHubs support thread (a new Apple TV and 3 x HomePod Minis). Two don’t (HomePod OG and Apple TV 4K OG). I can’t control which one is acting as the HomeHub. If one of the HomeHubs that doesn’t support thread is active, does this mean thread devises will not set-up/work correctly?

The question is hypothetical currently, but will presumably not be as time passes. This article makes it sounds like it will be a problem:

If you see a 'Thread Border Router Required' or 'Needs Thread Network' alert on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support (HK)

The accessory you are trying to set up requires a Thread border router and your Apple device does not support Thread.

support.apple.com

"Connected" hub is just the portal to the internet.
"Standby" hubs will relay communications to devices only they reach/talk to.

I have an AppleTV in "Standby" out in the garage (other side of the property) specifically to reach an August smart lock out there because its bluetooth only. If I disconnect the AppleTV out there I can't reach the August lock anymore.