Thunderbolt 5 in New Macs: Features, Benefits, and Is It Needed?

[MacRumors]

Apple's new Mac mini and MacBook Pro models powered by M4 Pro and M4 Max chips introduce Thunderbolt 5 connectivity to the Mac lineup for the first time, bringing the first major bandwidth increase since Thunderbolt 3 debuted in 2015. While this next-generation standard promises significant improvements, understanding its specific benefits can help you decide whether it's really essential for your needs.

Let's take a closer look at Thunderbolt 5 – what it does, whether it's necessary, and which accessories leverage the latest standard.

Thunderbolt 5: What It Does

Thunderbolt 5 doubles the standard data transfer speed to 80 Gbps in both directions, with a special "Bandwidth Boost" mode reaching up to 120 Gbps for video-intensive tasks. This asymmetrical mode allocates 120 Gbps to display data while maintaining 40 Gbps for other data transfers, effectively tripling the bandwidth compared to Thunderbolt 4. The standard also increases maximum power delivery to 240W, up from Thunderbolt 4's 100W limit, enabling faster charging for power-hungry devices like the 16-inch MacBook Pro.

Intel specs: Thunderbolt 4 (today) vs. Thunderbolt 5 (tomorrow)​

The increased bandwidth supports more demanding display configurations for M4 Pro and M4 Max-powered Macs. Thunderbolt 5 also incorporates DisplayPort 2.1, enabling features like 4K displays at 240Hz refresh rates, for smoother motion during gaming and video playback. Like previous versions, the standard maintains backward compatibility with older Thunderbolt standards and USB devices, including the latest USB4 2.0 specification.

Latest Macs With Thunderbolt 5

Apple's latest Mac models featuring Thunderbolt 5 offer enhanced external display support, varying by specific chip configuration. Both the Mac mini with M4 Pro chip and MacBook Pro with M4 Pro or M4 Max chip provide three Thunderbolt 5 ports. Here's a detailed breakdown of what's capable in terms of display configurations:

MacBook Pro Models

• MacBook Pro with M4 Pro Chip:
  
• Supports up to two external displays:
  
• Two displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt.
• One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI.

[*]Alternatively, supports one external display:

• One display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz over HDMI.
• One display with up to 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI.

[*]MacBook Pro with M4 Max Chip:

• Supports up to four external displays:
  
• Three displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI.

[*]Alternatively, supports up to three external displays:

• Two displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or one display with up to 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI.

Mac mini Models

• Mac mini with M4 Pro Chip:
  
• Supports up to three external displays:
  
• Three displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt.

[*]Alternatively, supports one external display:

• One display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or one display with up to 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI.

Note that the Mac mini with the standard M4 chip features Thunderbolt 4 ports and supports up to three external displays, with specific configurations as detailed in Apple's technical specifications.

Do I Need Thunderbolt 5?

For most users performing everyday tasks like web browsing, document editing, or even photo editing, Thunderbolt 4's 40 Gbps bandwidth remains more than adequate. Even 4K video editing and working with large file sizes works smoothly with Thunderbolt 4 connections, as many professionals will attest. The new Mac mini and base 14-inch MacBook Pro with M4 chip includes Thunderbolt 4 ports that should serve most of these users.

It's worth considering Thunderbolt 5 if you work with 8K video, require multiple high-resolution displays, or regularly transfer extremely large files. The technology will be particularly beneficial if you work with virtual reality, 3D rendering, or high-end video production where every bit of bandwidth matters. However, remember that taking full advantage of Thunderbolt 5 requires compatible peripherals, which are just beginning to enter the market and typically command premium prices.

For most users, the presence of Thunderbolt 5 shouldn't be the deciding factor when choosing between M4 and M4 Pro/Max Macs. The standard M4 models with Thunderbolt 4 will continue to serve the majority of users well, making Thunderbolt 5 a "nice-to-have" rather than a necessity for typical Mac buyers. The technology's true benefits will likely become more apparent as compatible peripherals become more available and affordable over time.

• 14-Inch vs. 16-Inch MacBook Pro Buyer's Guide 2024
• M4 vs. M4 Pro vs. M4 Max Chip Buyer's Guide: Which Should You Choose?
• M1 vs. M2 vs. M3 vs. M4 MacBook Pro Buyer's Guide: 30+ Differences Compared

Thunderbolt 5 Accessories

The first wave of Thunderbolt 5 peripherals is beginning to arrive. Apple's Thunderbolt 5 Pro Cable ($69) features a braided black design, supports the full 120 Gbps bandwidth and 240W power delivery, while maintaining backward compatibility with Thunderbolt 3/4 and USB standards... Click here to read rest of article

Article Link: Thunderbolt 5 in New Macs: Features, Benefits, and Is It Needed?

 

[akbarali.ch]

Has anyone used Apple's thunderbolt cables (or any other brands), wanted to know if they are stiff or soft. I bought a few thunderbolt cables from China, 40gbps 240watt and they tend to be very very stiff, hard to manuver and bend whiile trying arrange devices on the desk. A softer cable would be easily manageable.

 

[Hank001]

This is a good article!

 

[Hank001]

Has anyone used Apple's thunderbolt cables (or any other brands), wanted to know if they are stiff or soft. I bought a few thunderbolt cables from China, 40gbps 240watt and they tend to be very very stiff, hard to manuver and bend whiile trying arrange devices on the desk. A softer cable would be easily manageable.

I think they're all quite stiff, save for the braided ones. Though those are less flexible than a MacBook charging cable.

 

[andrewxgx]

theres only one feature that matters: it can run 5k and 6k @ 120 Hz on single cable.
upgraded displays should be on their way with M4 Pro and Studio Macs.

 

[DunedinD]

Has anyone used Apple's thunderbolt cables (or any other brands), wanted to know if they are stiff or soft. I bought a few thunderbolt cables from China, 40gbps 240watt and they tend to be very very stiff, hard to manuver and bend whiile trying arrange devices on the desk. A softer cable would be easily manageable.

I bought a CalDogit one as a spare to go with its TS4, so I don’t have to reach to the back of my Mac to swap between devices. Both cables are the shortest length, about 50cm. Pretty flexible.

 

[jumpcutking]

If the cheaper version of Apple Vision relies on another device, thunderbolt 5 could power it and activate close to realtime refresh rates.

 

[Feek]

Might get a TB5 enclosure for my Time Machine backups.

They may actually be usable then

 

[TallManNY]

As things in computers get faster and faster, tech reporters should start writing in clearer sentences. Example from this Thunderbolt 5 cable section:

Do I Need Thunderbolt 5?
For most users performing everyday tasks like web browsing, document editing, or even photo editing, Thunderbolt 4's 40 Gbps bandwidth remains more than adequate. Even 4K video editing and working with large file sizes works smoothly with Thunderbolt 4 connections, as many professionals will attest.

This should start out with one sentence. "No." or "In almost all cases, no." Then state the absolutely ridiculous speeds of Thunderbolt 4 and from there go on to use the examples. The difference that I'm trying to get to is that we have reached speeds in our devices where greater speeds just doesn't make any difference in almost all cases. And for the reader, who doesn't know the difference between 4 and 5, getting this point across is important. This paragraph is like an older tech paragraph where we had consumer level stuff and then better pro level stuff that even casual users would at least notice performance differences. So if you had some cash to burn, you bought the pro stuff. Some of the speeds built into base models of some tech are just so fast that the pro upgrade just doesn't make a difference at all. Example here, if you take an M4 Pro mini with TB5 ports and buy TB5 cables and then attach them to an external drive, you won't see any performance improvement because even TB4 is faster than the external SSD can read/write and it isn't even close.

It is a good article and useful information. But I just don't think it is as good as the author could have done. Because the author has all the points right, they just don't land the conclusions and allow them to surface quite right.

 

[mikebenton]

You can get a Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB for $150. I'm hoping there will be some good TB5 SSD enclosures soon. Much less expensive option for expanding storage and not sacrificing speed. 1 TB on the MacBook, 2 TB extended on an external.

 

[mikebenton]

As things in computers get faster and faster, tech reporters should start writing in clearer sentences. Example from this Thunderbolt 5 cable section:

Do I Need Thunderbolt 5?
For most users performing everyday tasks like web browsing, document editing, or even photo editing, Thunderbolt 4's 40 Gbps bandwidth remains more than adequate. Even 4K video editing and working with large file sizes works smoothly with Thunderbolt 4 connections, as many professionals will attest.

This should start out with one sentence. "No." or "In almost all cases, no." Then state the absolutely ridiculous speeds of Thunderbolt 4 and from there go on to use the examples. The difference that I'm trying to get to is that we have reached speeds in our devices where greater speeds just doesn't make any difference in almost all cases. And for the reader, who doesn't know the difference between 4 and 5, getting this point across is important. This paragraph is like an older tech paragraph where we had consumer level stuff and then better pro level stuff that even casual users would at least notice performance differences. So if you had some cash to burn, you bought the pro stuff. Some of the speeds built into base models of some tech are just so fast that the pro upgrade just doesn't make a difference at all. Example here, if you take an M4 Pro mini with TB5 ports and buy TB5 cables and then attach them to an external drive, you won't see any performance improvement because even TB4 is faster than the external SSD can read/write and it isn't even close.

Then why are TB4 SSD enclosures only experiencing 1/2 the read/write speeds the drives are capable of? Folks who have TB4 enclosures are seeing around 3,200 Mb/s, when the drives are capable of + 6,000 Mb/s speeds? I'm not asking to be snarky. I'm genuinely hoping that with any new TB5 enclosures, we'll see read/write speeds reaching their top speeds.

 

[Tago]

Required or not, would assume Apple will throw a couple of updated displays up in the air for someone to grab in a not too distant future as the present iterations seems to be Thunderbolt III.... Would be weird if the Apple Display Hub facilities stayed Thunderbolt III. Really weird.

My guess would be those arriving at the same release as Mac Studios (and possibly Pros).

Don`t think I`d purchase Apple displays right now unless I had to. Beyond my budget anyway...

 

[ender78]

Then why are TB4 SSD enclosures only experiencing 1/2 the read/write speeds the drives are capable of? Folks who have TB4 enclosures are seeing around 3,200 Mb/s, when the drives are capable of + 6,000 Mb/s speeds? I'm not asking to be snarky. I'm genuinely hoping that with any new TB5 enclosures, we'll see read/write speeds reaching their top speeds.

The enslosures and the TB protocol limit the speed of the connection to about 3200MB/sec. It comes down to overhead and intentional throttling/bandwidth management. TB4 uses four PCI Express 3.0 lanes which is 32Gbps max theoretical and TB5 uses four PCE vs 4 lanes which equals 80Gbps.

The OWC enclosure is likely using a similar or same M.2 drive in the TB5 enclosure as they did in the TB4. Here is hoping that we can buy a $200 enclosure in the near future and add our own drives. As of now, the OWC enclosure is not sold without an SSD. A good TB4 enclosure that can do 3GB/sec is about $100-150 these days.

 

[adamw]

Definitely Thunderbolt 5 is needed! It not only will help to future-proof your new M4 Pro or M4 Max Mac purchase, but it will also enable current and future high resolution and higher refresh rate displays (up to 120 Gbps Thunderbolt 5 display bitrate), plus Thunderbolt 5 will also raise the maximum data bitrate from 40 Gbps to 80 Gbps. This will effectively double all data transfer speeds between your Mac and external peripherals that support the faster Thunderbolt 5 80 Gbps data rate, including Thunderbolt 5 SSD drives, NAS Servers, Thunderbolt 5 hub and docking stations, and more devices. Also, Thunderbolot 5 ports are backward compatible with Thunderbolt 3 and 4 device speeds, so all your existing hubs, SSDs, and other devices will work fine at 40 Gbps maximum speed.

A review of the OWC Thunderbolt 5 Envoy Ultra SSD drive. Seems impressive for those needing the speed of a Thunderbolt 5 SSD External drive to supplement their internal SSD storage:

OWC Thunderbolt 5 SSD gets first review, and yes, it can reach 48Gbps — making it the fastest single-drive portable SSD that you can buy

Great performance and pricing make the Envoy Ultra Thunderbolt 5 portable SSD an attractive choice

www.techradar.com

 

[Corefile]

The majority of people can get by with a USB3 compatible device. People shouldn't get swayed to waste money on performance they'll never need. A 12 dollar USB3 dock from Amazon is just as useful to most people, even so-called professionals.

 

[tenthousandthings]

As things in computers get faster and faster, tech reporters should start writing in clearer sentences. Example from this Thunderbolt 5 cable section:

Do I Need Thunderbolt 5?
For most users performing everyday tasks like web browsing, document editing, or even photo editing, Thunderbolt 4's 40 Gbps bandwidth remains more than adequate. Even 4K video editing and working with large file sizes works smoothly with Thunderbolt 4 connections, as many professionals will attest.

This should start out with one sentence. "No." or "In almost all cases, no." Then state the absolutely ridiculous speeds of Thunderbolt 4 and from there go on to use the examples. The difference that I'm trying to get to is that we have reached speeds in our devices where greater speeds just doesn't make any difference in almost all cases. And for the reader, who doesn't know the difference between 4 and 5, getting this point across is important. This paragraph is like an older tech paragraph where we had consumer level stuff and then better pro level stuff that even casual users would at least notice performance differences. So if you had some cash to burn, you bought the pro stuff. Some of the speeds built into base models of some tech are just so fast that the pro upgrade just doesn't make a difference at all. Example here, if you take an M4 Pro mini with TB5 ports and buy TB5 cables and then attach them to an external drive, you won't see any performance improvement because even TB4 is faster than the external SSD can read/write and it isn't even close.

It is a good article and useful information. But I just don't think it is as good as the author could have done. Because the author has all the points right, they just don't land the conclusions and allow them to surface quite right.

One question that I’m unclear about is something like are there displays (current or forthcoming) that would require TB5 for full performance? — or, put another way, will there be displays that M4 Pro/Max can drive, but M4 cannot?

 

[Populus]

Regarding the Thunderbolt ports on my new M4 Pro Mac mini, I have some questions. Hopefully you won’t mind me asking here.

1) The M4 Pro has three Thunderbolt 5 ports in the rear, and the M4 has three Thunderbolt 4 ports in the rear, but on the front, both of them have two USB-C ports. What are this ports? Thunderbolt 4? USB 4? USB 4 v.2.0? USB 3.2 gen 2? What a mess the modern USB specifications…

2) Let’s imagine a simple data transfer from an SSD to the Mac. Does Thunderbolt 4 allow for 40Gbps in one direction? That’s 5GB/s. Or is it 20Gbps in one direction? That would be 2.5GB/s

3) I’ve bought some cheap cables that say they are USB4 40Gbps Thunderbolt 4 compatible. I assume they aren’t Thunderbolt 4 but they match the speed at 40Gbps, right?

4) Will I get the same speeds connecting that USB4 40Gbps cable to the front ports or the rear ports? If the speeds with a 40Gbps cable are similar, I prefer to use the front ports, not only for convenience , but also because due to the wear of the ports, if they break, at least they won’t damage the motherboard, and are easier to repair.

 

[Tago]

One question that I’m unclear about is something like are there displays (current or forthcoming) that would require TB5 for full performance? — or, put another way, will there be displays that M4 Pro/Max can drive, but M4 cannot?

The display hub will be an obvious bottleneck, can`t have that, can we? Further, if they up the hz and/or dpi (doubt that), bandwidth is a good thing.

 

[Chancha]

One question that I’m unclear about is something like are there displays (current or forthcoming) that would require TB5 for full performance? — or, put another way, will there be displays that M4 Pro/Max can drive, but M4 cannot?

There are. You can already buy them today (in fact months and years ago). Of course they remain exotic choice with a price tag, but down the line the same specs will move down to mainstream monitors.

 

[jecowa]

Just as a refresher:

Thunderbolt 3 SoCs:

• M1
• M2
• M3

Thunderbolt 4 SoCs:

• M1 Pro/Max/Ultra
• M2 Pro/Max/Ultra
• M3 Pro/Max
• M4

Thunderbolt 5 SoCs:

1. M4 Pro/Max/Ultra

 

[Kier-XF]

Getting display capability info seems painfully difficult.

Apple says the 2024 MBP with M4 Max can support three Thunderbolt displays, and one HDMI display - which is fairly obvious given the available ports, but then we have a Thunderbolt 5 Dock from OWC claiming to support three Thunderbolt displays, so is this in addition to the native capabilities of the MBP, or is the display quantity limit fixed with the MBP?

Example - MBP M4 Max user has a Studio display connected to each of the Thunderbolt ports on the left of the MBP, has the Thunderbolt 5 Dock connected to the Thunderbolt port on the right of the MBP, with a Studio Display connected to each of the downstream Thunderbolt ports on the dock. What happens?

 

[bradman83]

Getting display capability info seems painfully difficult.

Apple says the 2024 MBP with M4 Max can support three Thunderbolt displays, and one HDMI display - which is fairly obvious given the available ports, but then we have a Thunderbolt 5 Dock from OWC claiming to support three Thunderbolt displays, so is this in addition to the native capabilities of the MBP, or is the display quantity limit fixed with the MBP?

Example - MBP M4 Max user has a Studio display connected to each of the Thunderbolt ports on the left of the MBP, has the Thunderbolt 5 Dock connected to the Thunderbolt port on the right of the MBP, with a Studio Display connected to each of the downstream Thunderbolt ports on the dock. What happens?

The number of displays supported is limited by the internal hardware of the Mac, not by the number of ports (although ports are certainly a factor). M series SoCs have display controllers built into the SoC and the number of display controllers determines how many displays it supports, alongside how much the GPU can support.

A dock can provide alternate ways to connect, for example having all of the displays to be connected to the dock and then connected to the MBP via a single port for convenience of docking and undocking, but it won't expand the number of supported displays beyond what the SoC can support.

 

[lkrupp]

I chuckle at these recent articles about Macs being almost too fast now and Thunderbolt 5 not being needed. For decades the drones have been hacking away at the “Apple hardware is underpowered”. The criticism of Apple has turned 180°. Amazing.

 

[NMBob]

How many words per minute will I be able to type on a TB5 keyboard?

 

[constructor]

Getting display capability info seems painfully difficult.

Apple says the 2024 MBP with M4 Max can support three Thunderbolt displays, and one HDMI display - which is fairly obvious given the available ports, but then we have a Thunderbolt 5 Dock from OWC claiming to support three Thunderbolt displays, so is this in addition to the native capabilities of the MBP, or is the display quantity limit fixed with the MBP?

Example - MBP M4 Max user has a Studio display connected to each of the Thunderbolt ports on the left of the MBP, has the Thunderbolt 5 Dock connected to the Thunderbolt port on the right of the MBP, with a Studio Display connected to each of the downstream Thunderbolt ports on the dock. What happens?

Even the M1 Max already supports up to 5 displays and the MacBook Pro Mx Max also does with the internal one and the HDMI port plus the three Thunderbolt ports or up to two displays in the same Thunderbolt connection until the four external display controllers are all used up.

If you're using Thunderbolt externally you should be able to connect at least two external displays through the same Thunderbolt connection via a hub or daisy chaining (if the monitors support it).

And in 120Gb/s mode Thunderbolt 5 should actually support two 8k 60Hz displays or one 8k 120Hz one!

I would indeed expect new Apple displays to be presented together with M4 Mac Studio and M4 Mac Pro, likely replacing / adding to the 6k XDR which is the absolute maximum possible with Thunderbolt 3/4. A 120Hz Studio Display is now easily possible, too!