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Thunderbolt Details Emerge: Bus Power, Mini DisplayPort, and More

Isn't this a "bag of hurt" because lots of devices don't support it?

Hey just quoting Steve.
 
AidenShaw said:
You realize that ThunderBolt support is not native, right?
Click to expand...

No, I don't. You? Unless you have a problem believing Intel's statements:

"Intel's Thunderbolt™ controller brings Thunderbolt goodness to your computer."

Do you know " 's" means, right?

Another one:

"Thunderbolt products require
a controller chip supplied by Intel
Click to expand...
and a small connector that would be included in platforms supporting this technology. The Thunderbolt controller chip provides protocol switching capabilities to support the two protocols over a single cable. Intel is making its controller chip available to the industry, and is working with other component manufacturers to deliver the Thunderbolt connectors and cables."
 
BRLawyer said:
No, I don't. You? Unless you have a problem believing Intel's statements:

"Intel's Thunderbolt™ controller brings Thunderbolt goodness to your computer."

Do you know " 's" means, right?

Another one:

"Thunderbolt products require and a small connector that would be included in platforms supporting this technology. The Thunderbolt controller chip provides protocol switching capabilities to support the two protocols over a single cable. Intel is making its controller chip available to the industry, and is working with other component manufacturers to deliver the Thunderbolt connectors and cables."
Click to expand...

I think there is a semantic difference between "native" and "supported by an Intel-designed chip."

But I agree - I don't think Intel is going to put their weight behind USB3. (question: did they patent this thing? are they willing to license it to other chipset vendors?)
 
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cmaier said:
I think there is a semantic difference between "native" and "supported by an Intel-designed chip."...
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I'd go a lot further than that, it's a completely different concept and it makes BRLawyer's response to AidenShaw seem a little pointless.
 
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weckart said:
Hardly. FB/LP does not power external hardware. USB3 is still the fastest practical protocol for bus powered external hard drives. One cable is all you need. eSATA and FB will require at least two.
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It carries 10W of power, which is more than USB3. I'd understand if you posted what this before the Thunderbolt roll out, but not afterwards. This information is readily available.
 
OK - I have an NEC 30" display (2560 x 1400?) that requires dual link DVI.

Will the new MBP with Thunderbolt drive it at native resolution?
 
not even out yet and the first security concerns get raised:

The current Thunderbolt simply sends PCIe signals across the wire. That means, in theory, anything a PCIe card can do, a Thunderbolt device can do. A hostile device should be able to send any address it wants, to read and write any part of memory of the host machine.
Click to expand...

http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2011/02/thunderbolt-introducing-new-way-to-hack.html

Note that MacBooks already have Firewire, ExpressCard, and SD/IO ports that are vulnerable to this feature. Therefore, having yet another port with the same vulnerability isn't a huge increase in the risk.
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Prom1 said:
Well looks like we have 1 external HDD RAID ready out of the gates and its already featured on the Thunderbolt page at Apple.

http://www.promise.com/storage/raid...lobal&m=192&rsn1=40&rsn3=47&statistic=pegasus

Pegasus Thunderbolt™ Technology DAS



Specs boys & girls:


Oh yes I'm DEFINITELY going to upgrade!
Now should it be the 13" or the low end 15".
I'm not sure I can wait to see what the next MacBook generation will be. Right now I'm VERY worried that a $300 less MacBook will have essentially the same specs as the 13" or without the Thunderbolt port support and with FW800. Got a feeling that's EXACTLY what Apple will do.

At the moment though I seriously wanna kick Mr. Mansfield in the NADZ for yet again giving the 13" a shoddy IGP only solution. It's THE BEST selling machine Apple has so why do they continually cripple it?! I'm sure it's sales have dropped. I don't want the larger size that the 15" brings either.

1. If SSD prices drop for 256GB considerably (say $100-150US from current pricing) along with more consumers/business purchasing these directly from Apple.

2. Less error reports of SuperDrive going forward.
3. More log reports showing SuperDrive use dropping significantly - submitted to Apple via OSX reports.

4. More developer, consumer, business specifying NO MORE SuperDrive requirement and more weight loss for better portability.
5. Western Digital, LaCie and other accessory manufacturers going gung-ho with their products using Thunderbolt!

These all happening in the next 9mths will bring a case redesign across the board with dual Thunderbolt ports can be accomodated on all machines.
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This is going to be expensive... 90% of consumers aren't going to be running a RAID setup to take advantage of the throughput that Thunderbolt provides. USB 3.0 has plenty of throughput for any external drives for many many years unless there is something groundbreaking occurs with SSD tech. By that time USB 4 will be out which will probably be on-par or better than TB.

USB 3 will be around for many, many years because USB is used everywhere. Corporations are always 3-5 years behind on tech since they cant afford to replace thousands of computers so there will always be a market for USB. TB definitely has an uphill battle to overcome USB and I dont see it taking off for at least 3 years.
 
Another firewire ? Faster and better than USB3 but without market penetration.

Single disks can't go faster than USB3 now, or for the next few years anyway.

I do like the displayport integration though, and that might be the winner for the format.
 
nickvisic said:
HA! this brings it all back to my atari 800 xl. back in my day, (1985) i did the EXACT same thing. i daisy chained my:

64 K atari 800 XL to my
Single sided Double denstity 5 1/4" floppy drive to my
300 baud modem to my
Epson dot matrix printer!

Yeah baby!! it took 30 years, but my ATARI FINALLY WINS!!!!!
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i am wondering if epson would do a thunderbolt-enabled printer? :)
epson 3000? or newer 3880 with larger cart?
http://www.inkrepublic.com/3880-irefill.asp
http://www.inkrepublic.com/3800-irefill.asp
http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/01/18...n-announces-r3000-available-in-march-for-850/
 
mikerr said:
Another firewire ? Faster and better than USB3 but without market penetration.

Single disks can't go faster than USB3 now, or for the next few years anyway.

I do like the displayport integration though, and that might be the winner for the format.
Click to expand...
It won't bring your CPU to a crawl like USB does.
 
cmaier said:
(question: did they patent this thing? are they willing to license it to other chipset vendors?)
Click to expand...

I think it'd be in their best interest to license it out so that it becomes the true standard. They don't want to have USB3 be the universal standard because then even though it appears to be inferior it will probably sell alot more, just like Firewire and USB2 at the moment. So to let other chipset vendors implement it would be a good idea, imo.
 
mikerr said:
Another firewire ? Faster and better than USB3 but without market penetration.

Single disks can't go faster than USB3 now, or for the next few years anyway.

I do like the displayport integration though, and that might be the winner for the format.
Click to expand...

single disk can be faster than usb3 for sure if the disk has no uas supported. in my own opinion, usb3 is useless and can be slower than esata2 if uasp is not enabled.
 
Does the Thunderbolt port on the 2011 MBP's support powered connections to these new TB HDD's? or through adapters for ESATA/USB3?

^ this will be critical. Right now I cannot connect a simple USB2.0 2.5mm portable HDD to my Mac Mini or AluMB (both circa 2009) while
1. having 2 external HDD (1.5 + 1TB) powered by external adapters on the Mac Mini. Keyboard and Dell 250x LCD hub connected.
2. MagSafe Power adapter and NOTHING else connected to the ALuMB.
 
I asked my Apple sales rep if they have confirmation that
it will be safe to Hot Plug Thunderbolt cables and peripherals
with your system running.

So far I haven't heard back on that.

This may or may not be an issue with Bus powered devices.
 
Prom1 said:
Does the Thunderbolt port on the 2011 MBP's support powered connections to these new TB HDD's? or through adapters for ESATA/USB3?

^ this will be critical. Right now I cannot connect a simple USB2.0 2.5mm portable HDD to my Mac Mini or AluMB (both circa 2009) while
1. having 2 external HDD (1.5 + 1TB) powered by external adapters on the Mac Mini. Keyboard and Dell 250x LCD hub connected.
2. MagSafe Power adapter and NOTHING else connected to the ALuMB.
Click to expand...



the endpoint can be non-TB device according to intel's white paper, but i dont know how they do that.
 
FFTT said:
I asked my Apple sales rep if they have confirmation that
it will be safe to Hot Plug Thunderbolt cables and peripherals
with your system running.

So far I haven't heard back on that.

This may or may not be an issue with Bus powered devices.
Click to expand...
It is hot pluggable.
 
Does anyone know - if you have two TB external drives daisy-chained and copy from one to the other, will the data transfer directly from drive to drive, or does it have to be copied via the host Mac?

Also, is there any possibility (in the future) for direct streaming of videos from an external hard-drive to a display? If so, the merging of a data & display connector would make more sense.
 
stainlessliquid said:
Thunderbolt is going nowhere on minidisplay port...
Click to expand...

Well, I agree with you. I guess, nobody sees that this something, called TB is NOT Lightpeak. They just could not deliver on time, could not deliver on optical. Seeing this Jobs went to Ive:
"Hey, man, we have to do smtg. about this, we cannot disappont the shareholders, you better come up with something, and fast!"
"OK, chief, what's the problem?"
"We have to build LightPeak in the next generation, and Intel is nowhere..."
"Let me see what do we got... mmm DisplayPort carries 8Gigs, so we need another 2 Gigs, yes? We put a PCI-e on the DP and we have the bandwidth, nobody will ever notice that the 8G can be used only for video transmitting and nothing else and that it's only two Gigabit Ethernet ports aggregated, yes, boss?"
And so the TB came to life...
 
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zippys said:
This is going to be expensive... 90% of consumers aren't going to be running a RAID setup to take advantage of the throughput that Thunderbolt provides. USB 3.0 has plenty of throughput for any external drives for many many years unless there is something groundbreaking occurs with SSD tech. By that time USB 4 will be out which will probably be on-par or better than TB.

USB 3 will be around for many, many years because USB is used everywhere. Corporations are always 3-5 years behind on tech since they cant afford to replace thousands of computers so there will always be a market for USB. TB definitely has an uphill battle to overcome USB and I dont see it taking off for at least 3 years.
Click to expand...

But you think USB4 will exist some day, so I think your crystal ball has a crack in it.
 
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