Thurrott about IE: "It's a cancer on the Web..."

dubbz

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Sep 3, 2003
2,284
0
Alta, Norway
Say what you will about Thurrott, but sometimes you just got to agree with him :p

My advice is simple: Boycott IE. It's a cancer on the Web that must be stopped. IE isn't secure and isn't standards-compliant, which makes it unworkable both for end users and Web content creators. Because of their user bases, however, Web developers are hamstrung into developing for IE at the expense of established standards that work well in all other browsers. You can turn the tide by demanding more from Microsoft and by using a better alternative Web browser. I recommend and use Mozilla Firefox, but Apple Safari (Macintosh only) and Opera 8 are both worth considering as well.
IE 7.0 Technical Changes Leave Web Developers, Users in the Lurch

*Hugs Firefox*

Update: Seems like Mr. Thurrott's been feeling the heat for his comment.

Boycott IE 7? Not exactly
 

iBlue

macrumors Core
Mar 17, 2005
19,182
15
London, England
i totally agree - and that's a great analogy ;)

it's sad how many people are afraid or unwilling to just branch out and try something new. :rolleyes: i constantly try to gently mention it to people but more than half just say some stupid comment like "but i don't know how to use FireFox" well duh, i didn't either once, i did this crazy thing - i learned! [gasp]

edit: these people i refer to are typical windows users... the forum i administrate is full of them, i am the only macintosh user, the only one. it's a nightmare sometimes, really. when i hear their daily struggles (namely "what do I do?" questions) with ther lousy computers i always have to hold back in saying "buy a mac. problem solved." :rolleyes: [sigh] people.
 

andiwm2003

macrumors 601
Mar 29, 2004
4,343
402
Boston, MA
what happened to this guy . doesn't M$ pay enough anymore? or did steve threaten him to break his legs?
or did by some wierd chance his brain get activated and he starts to think on his own?

anyway, he's late but he's right.

andi
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Mar 17, 2004
7,113
419
Hell has frozen over and pigs are flying.


Apple is switching to Intel processors. Apple is releasing a two button mouse. Paul Thurrot is bashing the next version of Windows AND Internet Explorer.

I never thought I'd see the day.

Anyone up for skiing?
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,191
5
Adelaide, Australia
Is he the webs biggest attention seeker?

You wait, tomorrow he'll be hounding Macs and heralding the might of IE 7.0. He's an inconsistent nut and he needs help. :(
 

dmw007

macrumors G4
May 26, 2005
10,635
0
Working for MI-6
GFLPraxis said:
Apple is switching to Intel processors. Apple is releasing a two button mouse. Paul Thurrot is bashing the next version of Windows AND Internet Explorer.
What a crazy & wonderfull time that we live in. :)
 

superninjagoat

macrumors 6502
Apr 23, 2004
325
0
Apex, N.C
If IE is a cancer …

… then FrontPage is a carcinogen.

When I redesigned the Web site for a university I used to work for, I was mandated to create the site in FrontPage. Even IE Mac couldn't properly render the pages.

I eventually hand coded the site templates using KHTML and faked FrontPage headers on the HTML files.

Hatred doesn't even begin to explain my feelings toward IE and FrontPage.
 

geese

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2003
525
0
London, UK
superninjagoat said:
… then FrontPage is a carcinogen.

Hatred doesn't even begin to explain my feelings toward IE and FrontPage.
I work for a government deparment, maintaining and writing for their intranet. Unlike other govt department that use dreamweaver, we use Frontpage.

I £$"%ing hate it. I hate it when other people create Frontpage docs by cutting and pasting from Word docs, and then wondering why the formatting is messed up.

I hate it when FP doesnt save pages properly, and leaves CSS and gif files all over the shop.

There is a special place in hell for the authors and collaborators of Frontpage.
 

MattG

macrumors 68040
May 27, 2003
3,791
267
Asheville, NC
I got people in my department to start using Firefox, and now it's all they use. We're trying to get other people in the habit of using it, but they can't seem to break the habit of clicking on the big blue "E" whenever they want to get online. I wish we could just take it off :rolleyes:
 

MacDawg

macrumors Core
Mar 20, 2004
19,824
4,503
"Between the Hedges"
Its especially bad in the banking arena. I contacted Wachovia because their bill pay web site didn't work with Safari, Firefox, Camino, et. al.

Their response? It works with IE, use it. They feel like everyone else is screwed up and IE is the standard. The arrogance of M$ and IE makes everyone else's life more difficult.

Fortunately my credit union works with Safari, et. al. I need to just dump Wachovia altogether.

Woof, Woof – Dawg
 

savar

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2003
1,950
0
District of Columbia
superninjagoat said:
… then FrontPage is a carcinogen.

When I redesigned the Web site for a university I used to work for, I was mandated to create the site in FrontPage. Even IE Mac couldn't properly render the pages.

I eventually hand coded the site templates using KHTML and faked FrontPage headers on the HTML files.

Hatred doesn't even begin to explain my feelings toward IE and FrontPage.
I don't understand what FP does that is so terrible. I used it to design some sites at my last job because it was simply what was on my computer. I really like the fact that it won't alter any HTML I've written, even if I'm editing it in the WYSIWYG mode. That's something that Dreamweaver can't do...and FP was also much lighter, less bloated, etc. I honestly don't know what the best tools are out there, since I'm a programmer and was focusing on functionality -- not aesthetics so much. I did remove the FP headers from every page it created, though.
 

superninjagoat

macrumors 6502
Apr 23, 2004
325
0
Apex, N.C
geese said:
I work for a government deparment, maintaining and writing for their intranet. Unlike other govt department that use dreamweaver, we use Frontpage.

I £$"%ing hate it. I hate it when other people create Frontpage docs by cutting and pasting from Word docs, and then wondering why the formatting is messed up.

I hate it when FP doesnt save pages properly, and leaves CSS and gif files all over the shop.

There is a special place in hell for the authors and collaborators of Frontpage.
Amen, brother!
 

geese

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2003
525
0
London, UK
savar said:
I don't understand what FP does that is so terrible. I used it to design some sites at my last job because it was simply what was on my computer. I really like the fact that it won't alter any HTML I've written, even if I'm editing it in the WYSIWYG mode. That's something that Dreamweaver can't do...and FP was also much lighter, less bloated, etc. I honestly don't know what the best tools are out there, since I'm a programmer and was focusing on functionality -- not aesthetics so much. I did remove the FP headers from every page it created, though.
FP is OK for doing basic things. But in the government dept I work in I need to ensure that the formatting is correct on pages that other people (that are not very IT literate). And our set-up means that any images used must go into a certain folder, and that the CSS file must be linked.

What FP has a tendancy to do is duplicate the CSS and GIF files into its own folder, causing a small headache. And worse, must people here cut and paste from Word documents, causing havoc with the HTML as it adds its own HTML tags and stupid VB scripting bollocks to it.

This definition in Urban Dictionary puts it more elegantly: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FrontPage
 

FoxyKaye

macrumors 68000
MattG said:
I got people in my department to start using Firefox, and now it's all they use. We're trying to get other people in the habit of using it, but they can't seem to break the habit of clicking on the big blue "E" whenever they want to get online. I wish we could just take it off :rolleyes:
I think you can - on the 4 folks (out of 15) in my office running various incarnations of Windows, I've deleted the IE shortcut from their desktops (Windows complains a lot about this, but it can be done with no harm whatsoever - you can either drag it to the trash, right-click and select delete/move to trash, and in some older versions of Windows the ability to not display it is buried in either the advanced desktop or IE setting). Installed FireFox and let it become the default browser, and put a Firefox shortcut in the same spot as the big blue E resided and a second shortcut in the quicklaunch bar next to the start menu, also deleting the IE shortcut in the quicklaunch bar.

This way, the only time IE will run is when using Windows Update.

Anyhow, I feel your pain - the computers that are the most trouble in our office are the Windows machines...
 

Dave00

macrumors 6502a
Dec 2, 2003
855
62
Pittsburgh
MacDawg said:
Its especially bad in the banking arena. I contacted Wachovia because their bill pay web site didn't work with Safari, Firefox, Camino, et. al.
Agreed there. I think the problem (with so many people using IE) lies more in the fact that many programmers design the websites to be standards-incompliant (working only with IE) than with the user base being all in favor of using IE.

Fortunately, my bank (First Internet Bank) is designed to work with Safari (& IE on Windows). Recently, it seems to have also started working with firefox. I actually really like this bank. Free checking, with interest, and they reimburse you up to $6/month for ATM fees, so you can go whereever you want to withdraw your money. Incidentally, if you check it out and like it (boy is this starting to sound like an ad) and you want $10, email me (my apple id is dsacco) and I'll send you a "customer referral form."

dave
 

iGary

Guest
May 26, 2004
19,581
2
Randy's House
MattG said:
I got people in my department to start using Firefox, and now it's all they use. We're trying to get other people in the habit of using it, but they can't seem to break the habit of clicking on the big blue "E" whenever they want to get online. I wish we could just take it off :rolleyes:
At my old office, every time I'd walk past one of the half-dozen Mac users, I'd say "What are you doing using IE?" everytime I saw them using it...It's like people think that freaking "e" is the only way to connect to the Internet. It drives me insane. My partner comes in to find something on my Mac and what does he ask?

"Where's Internet Explorer?"

Freaking DERRRR
 

superninjagoat

macrumors 6502
Apr 23, 2004
325
0
Apex, N.C
savar said:
I don't understand what FP does that is so terrible. I used it to design some sites at my last job because it was simply what was on my computer. I really like the fact that it won't alter any HTML I've written, even if I'm editing it in the WYSIWYG mode. That's something that Dreamweaver can't do...and FP was also much lighter, less bloated, etc. I honestly don't know what the best tools are out there, since I'm a programmer and was focusing on functionality -- not aesthetics so much. I did remove the FP headers from every page it created, though.
1. If M$'s implementation of HTML was standards compliant:
2. If M$'s implementation of CSS was standards compliant:
3. Then FrontPage would be a powerful, user-friendly Web authoring tool.

Using FrontPage as a development platform is like writing for two slightly different processors in the same program. You can make it work fine for the G4, and the majority of it works on a G3, but you have to implement branching to get it to work as expected. And some features are exclusive to one processor and must be completely recoded. It's this way with M$HTML and true HTML. Because FP writes code that works very well with the IE browser, it causes problems for any standards compliant browsers out there.

And by the way, not changing your code is a new feature in FP (well a couple of years old, I guess). Imagine the frustration of this: You would write pages in FP for IE, staying away from certain known CSS issues that are too much of a pain to work around. You would then implement fixes in a text editor to ensure that the page would work on other browsers. After this point, if you opened and saved the file in FP, it would alter much of your carefully written code into M$HTML-speak. And god help you if you're trying to author XML or DHTML.

And while Dreamweaver changes your code, you can feel comfortable that the code it's changed is still, by and large, standards compliant.
 

atari1356

macrumors 68000
Feb 27, 2004
1,582
32
I've been developing web sites for far too long, and can't count the huge amount of time wasted trying to get things to work across various web browsers.

However, there is hope... IE7 Beta 2 is apparently more standards compliant, and I can't wait for it to finally support alpha transparency in .png images.
 
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