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Thurrott: Vista Beta 1 versus Tiger
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This is a ridiculus statement from the article. Spotlight matters when it saves me time! Which it right now. According to this logic, no feature ever matters until MS releases it.
Other than a few other strange statements, it seems to be a pretty fair review, but its pretty obvious he's a Windows guy and the fact that I've been using all these Tiger features for over a year and a half when MS releases Vista seems lost on him.
Mac fan that I am, it is starting to look more and more like Longhorn is going to have far better metadata support than Tiger does. First of all, the screenshot of the save dialog box with metadata tagging support built in by default is exactly what Tiger needs to have. Don't rely on me to remember that I need to add metadata - remind me whenever I got to save the file.
As well, it seems that the MS way of doing things is to create a "wrapper" of sorts that sits atop the file system and then adds metadata to files at that point. That is EXACTLY what I want - a system where you can add metadata to ANYTHING, no matter what kind of file it is. I want to take an image and, in the Finder, without any additional programs, add metadata to it, even if the file type originally didn't support metadata. Right now, I can do that with iPhoto - but I shouldn't have to. A very good example of this problem is video. You can't just add metadata to a video file after the fact, and even in playing around with saving H.264 files from QuickTime, the ONLY tag that ever seems to work properly is the copyright tag. I want the ability to tag video files with various metadata so that I can actually find them when I want to if I've misplaced a file.
I love OS X, but metadata is my #1 wanted advancement in the desktop OS, and so far it seems like MS might be on the better track. I really hope Apple gets serious about metadata and making Spotlight actually be usable to its full potential. Spotlight is powerful, but when the end user has so few options for assigning metadata in the first place, it loses a lot of that power.
As well, it seems that the MS way of doing things is to create a "wrapper" of sorts that sits atop the file system and then adds metadata to files at that point. That is EXACTLY what I want - a system where you can add metadata to ANYTHING, no matter what kind of file it is. I want to take an image and, in the Finder, without any additional programs, add metadata to it, even if the file type originally didn't support metadata. Right now, I can do that with iPhoto - but I shouldn't have to. A very good example of this problem is video. You can't just add metadata to a video file after the fact, and even in playing around with saving H.264 files from QuickTime, the ONLY tag that ever seems to work properly is the copyright tag. I want the ability to tag video files with various metadata so that I can actually find them when I want to if I've misplaced a file.
I love OS X, but metadata is my #1 wanted advancement in the desktop OS, and so far it seems like MS might be on the better track. I really hope Apple gets serious about metadata and making Spotlight actually be usable to its full potential. Spotlight is powerful, but when the end user has so few options for assigning metadata in the first place, it loses a lot of that power.
See, i have no problems with Spotlight. It works great for me, and the way it works deep down is great because i do not have to think about adding metadata to files. I dont have to remember that i added a metadata tag to a movie, and that the tag was "whippersnapper". Instead i can remember the titles of my movies, and Spotlight finds them. I could see how metadata could be nice, but i don't want my OS bugging me for metadata every-time i save a file (which is quite often!)shidoshi said:
As others have said, Thurrott is a winblowz fanboy. Writing an article comparing a beta vs. full OS in its second major revision is stupid, and just goes to show that Thurrott is trying to justify his existence with a meaningless article like the one in question.
Ehhh, my 2¢.
shidoshi said:
You make some very interesting points. I really do hope that Apple eventually allow you to add more stringent metadata to all files and folders. Although for me, I have to admit that it is a nice to have rather than a must have. However, me must not forget that Tiger is not supposed to be Apple's answer to Longhorn that will be the job of Leopard which will be released in late 2006 or early 2007, right around the same time as Longhorn.
Also, there is an interim solution for adding metadata to files and folders. You can simply add a Spotlight comment by right clicking and going to Get Info. Although not ideal, this does get the job done.
I personally see Leopard having much better support, and maybe even later updates of Tiger might have it (Tiger does seem very rushed)shidoshi said:
Calm down people. Paul Thurrott is an attention seeker. He needs people's attention and doesn't mind if it's positive or negative. This is why he writes outrageous comments and reviews comparing the incomparable.
He has a small problem and he should talk it over with someone. Just so long as it isn't Bill Gates.
He has a small problem and he should talk it over with someone. Just so long as it isn't Bill Gates.
mad jew said:He has a small problem and he should talk it over with someone. Just so long as it isn't Bill Gates.
Who then if not Bill Gates?
Steve Jobs perhaps?!
(Jobs would probably whip out a gun disguised as an iPod and shoot Paul Thurrott)Mitthrawnuruodo said:As for metadata, why don't you just add a few Spotlight Comments? Will basically do the same...
No it won't. First of all, Spotlight comments are gone the moment I give the file to somebody else on a non-Mac computer. Something with true metadata, such as an MP3 file, will stay inside the file no matter where it goes.
And if it is the same thing, then do this - go into your copy of iTunes, if you use it, and get rid of every bit of metadata you have for all of your songs. Instead, go to the Finder and use Spotlight comments for everything. It's the same thing, right?
Spotlight comments don't allow those files to be better organized and sorted in various applications. Spotlight comments don't allow for the specific searches that true metadata does. They aren't the same thing.
nsheikh80 said:
Completely arbitrary metadata is there, it's just that Apple hasn't exposed it in the GUI yet:
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/7
So just be a bit patient and wait until you see how Apple decides to expose it. There's no need to worry about who will be shipping it first
Compare Leopard Beta to Longhorn - that'd be something.
Wait - Apple doesn't want MS to copy all their 'new good things', so when they both come out ... THEN we can review them both, side by side.
What the review will look like:
Hasta La Vista.... Leopard Pounces over new Microsoft OS!
Me
Paul Thurott
Bill Gates
MS Programmers (to update Vista with new Leopard features)
Mac Users that knew it all along
MS users that expected a better OS
Steve Jobs
Wait - Apple doesn't want MS to copy all their 'new good things', so when they both come out ... THEN we can review them both, side by side.
What the review will look like:
Hasta La Vista.... Leopard Pounces over new Microsoft OS!
Me
Paul Thurott
Bill Gates
MS Programmers (to update Vista with new Leopard features)
Mac Users that knew it all along
MS users that expected a better OS
Steve Jobs
Another person who's waiting for the big metadata features. Am I mixing my mythologies or did Apple hire the individual who designed BFS (Be File System)?
Speaking of, I'm hoping that Apple will create a new filesystem soon. Or perhaps they already have. Something without the weird data+rsrc forks but with the exquisite metadata.
Of course someone's going to come out of the woodwork and tell me that HFS is the best thing ever...
Speaking of, I'm hoping that Apple will create a new filesystem soon. Or perhaps they already have. Something without the weird data+rsrc forks but with the exquisite metadata.
Of course someone's going to come out of the woodwork and tell me that HFS is the best thing ever...
kalisphoenix said:
Yes, they did.
They have. See the link in my above post. It's just not exposed to the gui yet.
It has to be stored seperately otherwise every single application will need to be rewritten to write/ignore metadata that it doesn't care about. That's why resource forks are necessary.
The current situation is ideal, because I can even attach arbitrary metadata to text files created in VI. There is no limitation.
More clumsy op-ed from the Windows Minister of Propaganda...
Vista is too unfinished to make a valid comparison with Tiger, and anyway Tiger will not be vista's main competitor - that will be another big cat's job.
Vista is too unfinished to make a valid comparison with Tiger, and anyway Tiger will not be vista's main competitor - that will be another big cat's job.
stcanard said:
Groovy, then. Pardon my ignorance, but I didn't know that what you said was relevant to what I was curious about. I know absolutely nothing about filesystems.
Thanks for your time and the information
Did you see me use the word basically...? You know that means that it's not the same, just that it in many ways does the same...shidoshi said:
And we're Mac users here speaking (mainly) of finding files on our Macs. That other OSs have inferior search functions that cannot read the contents of files and relies on you as a user to do lots of extra work (by having to manually write in lots of other words when saving the file) is not really mine/our problem...
Also I would love it if iTunes stored some information now found in the tags elsewhere, like album art which is really ineffective to add to every single song file from an album...
Edit: And why can't you use the Spotlight comments for searching? It's very easy, e.g. using Smart Folders:
Attachments
shidoshi said:
Right click on the file/folder/ipod/harddrive/disc/whatever you want to add metadata to, control click, get info, spotlight comments, you're there.
Jesus