Thurrott: Vista Beta 1 versus Tiger

[dubbz]

I've been very unhappy with XP, so it looks like my Windows machine will still be running 2000 for awhile. Maybe I'll upgrade to 2003, but I doubt I should even bother.

2003 is supposedly very nice and, if you're running a 64-bit capable CPU and don't run anything that needs a 32-bit system (or if you running some really ancient stuff), then XP Pro x64 is pretty nice too. It's behaved better than the 32-bit version so far.

As for Vista, I tried the most recent beta and it's like if they're trying to compensate for years with lack of Bling Bling. The assault of visual effects almost made me dizzy. I assume you can turn off those things, but I didn't bother with it long enough to find out.

 

[BGil]

I think you're right, but in the next 5 years Apple's OS X can potentially rip huge chunks of market share from Microsoft, if present tends continue and the Intel switch goes well. We could very well see Apple's market share hit 15-20% or beyond.

I highly doubt 15-20% marketshare. Apple likes to keep their prices and margins high as opposed to fighting against the commodizied PC market. That's not going to get 15-20% marketshare. Dell has about 17% worldwide marketshare IIRC so it would be nearly impossible for Apple to gain similar marketshare with their current market stategy and business model.

How on earth he came to that I have no idea. If I remember he was saying how elegant Mac OS Finder system was.

He's talking about the abilty to sort, visualize, group, and organize data in Vista. It's not elegant but it is far more powerful than the Finder.

Uh, Spotlight is free to all Mac OS X 10.4 users just as Microsoft Instant Desktop Search will be free to all Vista users.

Windows Desktop Search is free to all users of Windows XP and 2000 (and 2003?). Spotlight requires that you buy 10.4 9or purchase a machine with 10.4) to use it as it is not delivered separate from the OS.

 

[bousozoku]

I think you're right, but in the next 5 years Apple's OS X can potentially rip huge chunks of market share from Microsoft, if present tends continue and the Intel switch goes well. We could very well see Apple's market share hit 15-20% or beyond.

Definitely, a good possibility, especially as MS keeps up with issuing security problems instead of security solutions.

I read that knowing that Paul Thurrot is a biggot. Surprisingly I did't find that article to anti-Mac until I got to the last bit

Even in this early Beta 1 release, Windows Vista far outstrips the data file visualization and organizational features in Mac OS X Tiger. It will be interesting to see what Apple comes up with for Leopard, the next OS X release.

How on earth he came to that I have no idea. If I remember he was saying how elegant Mac OS Finder system was.

The one thing Windows users find at fault with Finder is the fact that there is no automatic preview of images as there is with Windows Explorer. It's a huge thing.

 

[dukeblue91]

It's still Windows
But at least they are getting the naming right this time.
It should have gone from Windows to Doors and now Vista

vista
noun
a marvelous vista from the hotel balcony view, prospect, panorama, aspect, perspective, spectacle, sight, outlook; scenery, landscape.

In other words it will still be wide open

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I highly doubt 15-20% marketshare. Apple likes to keep their prices and margins high as opposed to fighting against the commodizied PC market. That's not going to get 15-20% marketshare. Dell has about 17% worldwide marketshare IIRC so it would be nearly impossible for Apple to gain similar marketshare with their current market stategy and business model.

Oh, lord no. 20% worldwide is insane. But a 15-20% domestic market share in the US is very possible.

 

[BGil]

Definitely, a good possibility, especially as MS keeps up with issuing security problems instead of security solutions.

Hate to break it to you but Microsoft security problems peaked in the summer of 2003. With the proliferation of XP SP2, Microsoft AntiSpyware, IIS6, and Windows Server 2003 since that time, major problems have all but stopped. If Apple were going to capitalize on Windows security issues then they would have needed to do it in 2003 or sometime before SP2 in 2004. Right now, it's very much a non-event as no SP2 box (in default config) is vulnerable to anything but very minor (and almost unheard of) threats. Now that automatic updates is on by default it's going to be very difficult (close to impossible) to see an outbreak of 2003 proportions.

Oh, lord no. 20% worldwide is insane. But a 15-20% domestic market share in the US is very possible.

What's Apple's US marketshare? 4.3% IIRC. 17.2% marketshare would require Apple to sell 4 times as many Macs as they do now. All the growth Apple has had over the past year has only resulted in about a 1% increase in marketshare. A 13% increase would be out of the question because Apple simply can't sustain current growth levels for another 12 years.
I'd say 5-8% marketshare is the absolute maximum Apple can get with their current business model. But if Apple decides to do a complete 180 and start selling cheap like e-Machines then maybe they could do it but otherwise I don't see it happening, ever.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

What's Apple's US marketshare? 4.3% IIRC. 17.2% marketshare would require Apple to sell 4 times as many Macs as they do now. All the growth Apple has had over the past year has only resulted in about a 1% increase in marketshare. A 13% increase would be out of the question because Apple simply can't sustain current growth levels for another 12 years. I'd say 5-8% marketshare is the absolute maximum Apple can get with their current business model. But if Apple decides to do a complete 180 and start selling cheap like e-Machines then maybe they could do it but otherwise I don't see it happening, ever.

I disagree; I think that Apple could easily sell 4 times as many Macs as they do now (within the space of 2-3 years) if people start switching in large numbers. It would not be hard to ramp up Mac Mini and iBook production to meet higher demands since they use pretty conservative hardware.

And anyway the Mac Mini is cheap like an e-Machines. Apple will always be oriented towards higher-end stuff but there is a huge potential for them to expand at the bottom and middle priced market.

 

[decksnap]

Hate to break it to you but Microsoft security problems peaked in the summer of 2003. With the proliferation of XP SP2, Microsoft AntiSpyware, IIS6, and Windows Server 2003 since that time, major problems have all but stopped. If Apple were going to capitalize on Windows security issues then they would have needed to do it in 2003 or sometime before SP2 in 2004. Right now, it's very much a non-event as no SP2 box (in default config) is vulnerable to anything but very minor (and almost unheard of) threats. Now that automatic updates is on by default it's going to be very difficult (close to impossible) to see an outbreak of 2003 proportions.

I'll believe that after Vista has been out for a year or two. It's like a whole new playground.

And it's not like all these issues with adware/spyware have spontaneously dried up since SP2. It's still a freaking battle just to run a clean system.

 

[Orlando Furioso]

...metadata...

i agree it would be nice to have set, or customizable, metadata fields available to change while previewing files. It can be a component in Finder windows that is tucked away and revealed as needed/desired. Similar to Showing/hiding iTunes artwork in the bottom-left corner of iTunes (or the mini-calendar views in iCal).

On the other hand, spotlight comments work well for me. One can also set up scripts that automatically do this sort of thing when moving files into a particular folder. Automator is a solution to this as well.

Most files I assign metadata info to are project sources. Because of this, I find Adobe Bridge my ultimate app of choice (AOC) for changing metadata since Im already using it in my workflow. I feel most people who manage massive amounts of files have a similar setup with their AOC and have little need for another systemwide/encompassing solution.

Although a systemwide solution would not change how i work, it wont hurt it either (knocks on wood). It would however simplify the process of changing any info straight from Finder without having to launch the appropriate app. or iapp.

... Thurrott is an idiot.

goes without saying.