Tiger > Fresh Install over Upgrade?


Steven1621

macrumors 6502a
Apr 10, 2003
796
0
Connecticut
ZicklePop said:
Is a fresh Tiger install better then a upgrade?
I do not know of any advantage. It might depend on the state of your OS at the present moment. I think it would be fine to just upgrade.
 

iGary

Guest
May 26, 2004
19,583
0
Randy's House
I've been piling updates on since 10.2 and plan to do a fresh install on all my machines, even the newer ones. Sometimes it is just nice to start fresh and do it right from the start.
 

FoxyKaye

macrumors 68000
I'm always an advocate of the fresh installation for upgrading OSes - Not that an upgrade wouldn't work just fine, but I generally back up all my data and do a fresh installation for several reasons (that may or may not be logical):

* Opportunity to re-partition the ol' Hard Drive: Maybe the new OS needs more room, maybe I'm sick of the current partition scheme (in which case, an OS upgrade is a good excuse), maybe I have one partition I want to cut up. If there's only one partition, it does a clean wipe and the OS again becomes the first thing written on the HD (which it may not be with an upgrade installation because of space constraints) that I still believe makes things "snappier".

* Opportunity to clean out clutter: It's amazing how much crap I find on my HD when I actually have to look at what I'm backing up.

* Opportunity for the OS to find and install the system's hardware from scratch (folks will debate the usefulness of this).

* Opportunity for any applications/programs I've installed to re-align to the new OS and take advantage of its features.

Again, there's no reason why an upgrade installation won't work, but if you've got the time, I say go for the completely clean installation.
 

Scootir

macrumors newbie
Feb 25, 2004
3
0
Minneapolis, MN
I have found that a fresh install actually results in a significant system speed increase over an upgrade, at least with prior releases of OS 10. I had hoped "bit rot" was a windows only phenomena, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Tiger might be different, but historically a fresh install has proved the better choice on my Macs.
 

daveL

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2003
2,425
0
Montana
I always install to a clean disk. It only takes one glitch in an upgrade to completely ruin your day.
 

sjpetry

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2004
1,195
0
Tamarindo, Costa Rica
Quick Question

Am I able to drag the apps in my "Applications" folder and then put then on an external hard drive, then reinstall them in Tiger?

I hope. :eek:
 

lssmit02

macrumors 6502
Mar 25, 2004
393
34
Yeah, I've been pondering this myself. I upgraded my powerbook from Jaguar to Panther, wanting to preserve settings. But one thing a fresh install does is get rid of those utilities you installed to make your OS "better" (e.g., Quicksilver-which I love, btw) but may not be necessary under the new system (or worse, slow it down or are incompatible). You start from scratch, and can evaluate whether you need them or not.

From what I can determine, archive and install is sort of a half way measure, allowing you to import your home directory and network settings into the freshly installed system. You still get a "fresh" install of the OS, but your personal settings are incorporated (does this sound right?).
 

daveL

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2003
2,425
0
Montana
sjpetry said:
Am I able to drag the apps in my "Applications" folder and then put then on an external hard drive, then reinstall them in Tiger?

I hope. :eek:
As usual, it depends. Some apps are completely contained in their Application folder/bundle. Others also install bits in /System, like framework plugins, fonts, etc. About the only way to really tell is to search the whole system with Finder. I tend to build up an archive of the original app downloads and install them fresh, after I check to see if they've been updated since I last retrieved them. With apps like iLife where I have the CD/DVD, I just re-install.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
lssmit02 said:
Yeah, I've been pondering this myself. I upgraded my powerbook from Jaguar to Panther, wanting to preserve settings. But one thing a fresh install does is get rid of those utilities you installed to make your OS "better" (e.g., Quicksilver-which I love, btw) but may not be necessary under the new system (or worse, slow it down or are incompatible). You start from scratch, and can evaluate whether you need them or not.
Slightly OT -- did anyone else notice the note on the Quicksilver website saying the next beta would require Tiger? :eek: Apparently someone has no intention of vanishing quietly into the night.

Back on topic.... I want to do a fresh install, if I get Tiger, if I find some device onto which I could back stuff up...Hmmm...upgrade iPod to 40 gigs, use as backup device, hmm..... *twiddles thumbs evilly*
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,915
1,466
Palookaville
This is the second active thread on this subject...

Can any of the "fresh install" advocates provide us with one, sound technical reason to go this route?
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
IJ Reilly said:
This is the second active thread on this subject...

Can any of the "fresh install" advocates provide us with one, sound technical reason to go this route?
Ummm...it makes my breath taste clean. Yes. :eek:

Well, I'm not completely set against Archive and Install...Is there an intermediate level of prefs-keeping? That is, I want to trash most prefs files in case they may have been corrupted. I guess keeping network prefs would be nice, and maybe a couple of others, but by and large, I want to delete them.

EDIT: MyLeftNut, when you boot off the install CD, one of the options will be to erase the hard disk and then install the OS. ("Erase and Install").
 

Pismo

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2002
523
36
NH
I will be doing a clean install after I do a backup of everything. According to Apple's Order Status page, my copy of Tiger will ship on or before 4/15/05 :D
 

danm

macrumors member
Feb 8, 2005
43
0
Clarkston, WA
I'm a mac noob with a 12" revD SD PB and was wondering what's the easiest way to load my entire iPhoto and iTunes libraries on to a cleanly installed 10.4? Obviously I'll back everything up to my external drive, but I've heard these apps are funny about moving entire libraries?
 

Pismo

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2002
523
36
NH
danm said:
I'm a mac noob with a 12" revD SD PB and was wondering what's the easiest way to load my entire iPhoto and iTunes libraries on to a cleanly installed 10.4? Obviously I'll back everything up to my external drive, but I've heard these apps are funny about moving entire libraries?
All you have to do is copy the folder "iPhoto Library" inside the "Pictures" folder to your external drive and "iTunes" inside the "Music" folder. Once Tiger is installed, drag those folders from your folders back to their respective folders and launch iTunes and iPhoto. Your playlists are photo albums are in those folders so the apps will find them and everything will look te same before the upgrade. Hope this helps and welcome to the Mac family :)
 

danm

macrumors member
Feb 8, 2005
43
0
Clarkston, WA
Pismo said:
All you have to do is copy the folder "iPhoto Library" inside the "Pictures" folder to your external drive and "iTunes" inside the "Music" folder. Once Tiger is installed, drag those folders from your folders back to their respective folders and launch iTunes and iPhoto. Your playlists are photo albums are in those folders so the apps will find them and everything will look te same before the upgrade. Hope this helps and welcome to the Mac family :)
Thanks, that's what I thought. The only reason I ask is because of the problems I had helping my mom transfer hers. She apparently had some permission problems and I was a complete windows head! It's taken a while and some not so pleasent problems with windows (and some serious prodding from my artist/college teacher brother) to join the community. My powerbook is our first mac and I'm patiently waiting for the powermacs to be released so I can order one for our (actually my wife's!) web design/graphics business. Love the Mac community! Even the cool-aid ;)
 

clayton

macrumors newbie
Dec 30, 2004
23
0
Easiest way to back up=drag home folder.

That way I wont miss anything, like things you wouldn't think about--bookmarks, ical calendars etc.

Peace,
Clayton
 

patseguin

macrumors 68000
Aug 28, 2003
1,551
446
I would recommend doing an Archive and Install. This will retain all of your settings, documents, apps, etc. and do a clean install of OS X. There will be a folder called "Previous Systems" that you can just discard. I've done Archive and Installs with the various Tiger seeds and it works great. I can't think of any reason to erase and install unless you plan on re-partitioning.
 

kd0tc0m

macrumors newbie
Apr 2, 2005
11
0
DC
Pismo said:
I will be doing a clean install after I do a backup of everything. According to Apple's Order Status page, my copy of Tiger will ship on or before 4/15/05 :D
Shipped to you by 04/15/05? Er.... anyone else see that? :confused:
 

FoxyKaye

macrumors 68000
IJ Reilly said:
Can any of the "fresh install" advocates provide us with one, sound technical reason to go this route?
As an advocate of "fresh install" I don't know what the criterion would be for a "sound technical reason", since I'm willing to concede that archive/install would probably work just as well. I have my opinions as to why (if I do upgrade to Tiger) I'll probably do it, which I've shared earlier in the thread. But I suppose it really all boils down to personal preferences and experiences -- I worked in the Windows world until 2000, and never once did I just "upgrade" the OS: that always seemed to be starting down the path of the dark side. Maybe the reasons I do fresh installs on Macs are obsolete holdovers, or they're just a ritual that makes me feel good about installing a new OS.

Has anyone ever taken two identical systems with OSes installed via archive/install and fresh install and seen if there was any concrete difference in the operation of their programs and overall "snappiness"? Might be a fun experiment like those mythbusters guys on TV...
 

slooksterPSV

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2004
3,256
117
Nowheresville
FoxyKaye said:
As an advocate of "fresh install" I don't know what the criterion would be for a "sound technical reason", since I'm willing to concede that archive/install would probably work just as well. I have my opinions as to why (if I do upgrade to Tiger) I'll probably do it, which I've shared earlier in the thread. But I suppose it really all boils down to personal preferences and experiences -- I worked in the Windows world until 2000, and never once did I just "upgrade" the OS: that always seemed to be starting down the path of the dark side. Maybe the reasons I do fresh installs on Macs are obsolete holdovers, or they're just a ritual that makes me feel good about installing a new OS.

Has anyone ever taken two identical systems with OSes installed via archive/install and fresh install and seen if there was any concrete difference in the operation of their programs and overall "snappiness"? Might be a fun experiment like those mythbusters guys on TV...

Just thinking through logic here's what I've come up with:
The Archive and Install would take longer to install, but the snapiness shouldn't be affected (really think about that). You have a New OS being installed with extra's sitting in memory down the hard drive, or near the beginning at the hard drive. If you take into account that the first GB of a hard drive is the slowest part (according to some Computer Analysts), then it would be snappier to do an archive and install IF and only IF that Archive took up within the first GB of hard disk space. So if it moves the data down along the hard drive and puts it at the end of the OS installation then neither installation would prove to be snappier. But now we have to take into effect of how my Swap Memory you have and where that is located --- all in all, I don't think Archive and install is any different from Fresh install.
 

FoxyKaye

macrumors 68000
slooksterPSV said:
...all in all, I don't think Archive and install is any different from Fresh install.
Seems credible to me, which really boils down things to personal preferences. Here's a semi-related question: If you do archive/install, it moves over all your existing programs and preferences. However, if the change in the OS is great enough, wouldn't it be better to at least re-install your programs, especially if they're optimized to take advantage of the new OS? Just curious...