Tiger's "Ripple" Effect

greenguy4

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Jan 2, 2005
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Exactly what is this and what does it do? Also will I be able to see it once I upgrade (I am using an iBook G4)?

Thanks Guys
 

Dr. Dastardly

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Jun 26, 2004
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greenguy4 said:
Exactly what is this and what does it do? Also will I be able to see it once I upgrade (I am using an iBook G4)?

Thanks Guys
Its mostly just eyecandy, one example I have seen is when you drop a new widget on the desktop in dashboard it causes a small ripple behind it. Not sure if the iBooks GPU can handle it seeing that it uses core video to perform. But I've been known to be wrong once.
 

7on

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Nov 9, 2003
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Dress Rosa
I've heard that it uses pixel shaders. Dunno when that tech first arrived but I know my 2 year old TiBook lacks pixel shaders on it's ATI9000. And I get that info from Halo's startup where I can only choose vertex shaders but not pixel shaders.
 

DXoverDY

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Apr 19, 2005
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I just posted a preliminary FAQ for CoreImage which contains a few bits of information about the Ripple Effect you are hearing so much about. In short order though you'll need to check the actual graphics chip in the processor. If you have the ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 then you should see the Ripple Effect, otherwise you won't be so lucky. As it does indeed require a supported GPU to get that particular effect.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=121414
 

greenguy4

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How do I check what graphics chip my iBook is running off of? I checked the system profiler but it didn't appear there
 

SpaceMagic

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Oct 26, 2003
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Raven VII said:
Your card doesn't support CoreImage. Trust me.

No iBook has been released with a card that supports CoreImage yet.
Why do people keep saying this. Core Image IS supported by iBooks, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, eMacs, mac minis, even G3 ibooks, G3 iMacs, etc... just the processes are placed on the CPU rather than the Graphics card. It says countless times on these forums AND on the Apple website that core image will SCALE to whatever card you have, but to take full advantage of GPU shifting you'll need one of the listed cards.
 

matticus008

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Jan 16, 2005
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SpaceMagic said:
Why do people keep saying this. Core Image IS supported by iBooks, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, eMacs, mac minis, even G3 ibooks, G3 iMacs, etc... just the processes are placed on the CPU rather than the Graphics card. It says countless times on these forums AND on the Apple website that core image will SCALE to whatever card you have, but to take full advantage of GPU shifting you'll need one of the listed cards.
I think it's just people tripping over the language. Core Image is used by every computer running 10.4. What people mean when they say "your card isn't supported by Core Image" is that the GPU doesn't support picking up anything from the CPU in terms of Core Image. Therefore, the graphics subsystem doesn't support Core Image, but the computer does (as all Macs do).

The 9200 does not support Core Image functions on the GPU. You won't see the ripple effect, but Core Image is indeed present and working.
 

840quadra

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Feb 1, 2005
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SpaceMagic said:
Why do people keep saying this. Core Image IS supported by iBooks, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, eMacs, mac minis, even G3 ibooks, G3 iMacs, etc... just the processes are placed on the CPU rather than the Graphics card. It says countless times on these forums AND on the Apple website that core image will SCALE to whatever card you have, but to take full advantage of GPU shifting you'll need one of the listed cards.
You hit it on the head..

This issue is causing lots of confusion on other forums as well. Maybe we should work on a Tiger FAQ to discuss questions like these.
 

840quadra

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840quadra said:
You hit it on the head..

This issue is causing lots of confusion on other forums as well. Maybe we should work on a Tiger FAQ to discuss questions like these.
Core Image FAQ as seen on the Tiger forum
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=121414

Core Image FAQ said:
What if my graphics card isn't supported by CoreImage?

If your graphics card is not supported by CoreImage then Apple provided a fallback option. You'll still be able to use CoreImage but your CPU will do the work instead of the graphics card. This will obviously be slower than the GPU in most cases however it's still very functional with a few catches. One of those catches is that you won't have all the pretty effects and eyecandy you would if you had a supported graphics card. One such effect is the "Ripple Effect" that is so often used as an example. The Ripple effect actually requires a programmable graphics card due to the nature of the effect, it could be rendered in the CPU fallback but it would be so horribly slow it wouldn't be worth it. Because of this Apple makes certain effects unavailable to the CPU fallback option. I have no real information on whether this is up to the programmer or if CoreImage decides on it's own though. It might just be that Apple decided to make this particular effect only work for supported GPU's.

((EDIT)) I hit Quote as opposed to EDIT again :(
 

Platform

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Dec 30, 2004
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SpaceMagic said:
Why do people keep saying this. Core Image IS supported by iBooks, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, eMacs, mac minis, even G3 ibooks, G3 iMacs, etc... just the processes are placed on the CPU rather than the Graphics card. It says countless times on these forums AND on the Apple website that core image will SCALE to whatever card you have, but to take full advantage of GPU shifting you'll need one of the listed cards.
But how can you say that it is supported when some effects in DashBoard do not show.......then it can't be fully supported but it will run Tiger fine just not all the features ;)
 

Applespider

macrumors G4
Platform said:
But how can you say that it is supported when some effects in DashBoard do not show.......then it can't be fully supported but it will run Tiger fine just not all the features ;)
I think this is part of the confusion. Usually, it's fairly obvious whether a feature works or not. With this one, there appears to be different purposes to Core Image Units - the immediate real-time (ie the ripple to show you something has been done) and the other rendering options etc (like filters in image editing programs). It's just a pity that one of the new OS's apps, Dashboard, makes use of one of the 'realtime' ones fairly prominently.

What I'm assuming happens is that where an effect is more or less immediate in reaction to something you are doing but pretty much eye-candy, the developer wll probably decide that if your GPU can't handle it, you won't see it (like the ripple). But in something like an editing app where you're applying one of the built-in Core Image Units, Tiger will hand off the work to your CPU and it will render properly (but slower).

So the functionality of Core Image (all of the Units) is there and is supported by the G4/G5 Macs but it runs slower than on those with GPUs - and where the CPU would take too long to render, the effect is turned off (most likely in transitional effects)
 

Platform

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Applespider said:
I think this is part of the confusion. Usually, it's fairly obvious whether a feature works or not. With this one, there appears to be different purposes to Core Image Units - the immediate real-time (ie the ripple to show you something has been done) and the other rendering options etc (like filters in image editing programs). It's just a pity that one of the new OS's apps, Dashboard, makes use of one of the 'realtime' ones fairly prominently.

What I'm assuming happens is that where an effect is more or less immediate in reaction to something you are doing but pretty much eye-candy, the developer wll probably decide that if your GPU can't handle it, you won't see it (like the ripple). But in something like an editing app where you're applying one of the built-in Core Image Units, Tiger will hand off the work to your CPU and it will render properly (but slower).

So the functionality of Core Image (all of the Units) is there and is supported by the G4/G5 Macs but it runs slower than on those with GPUs - and where the CPU would take too long to render, the effect is turned off (most likely in transitional effects)
I think you are very right ;)
Thank you for the explanation ;) ........now everyone should not have a doubt
 

840quadra

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Applespider said:
I think this is part of the confusion. Usually, it's fairly obvious whether a feature works or not. With this one, there appears to be different purposes to Core Image Units - the immediate real-time (ie the ripple to show you something has been done) and the other rendering options etc (like filters in image editing programs). It's just a pity that one of the new OS's apps, Dashboard, makes use of one of the 'realtime' ones fairly prominently.

What I'm assuming happens is that where an effect is more or less immediate in reaction to something you are doing but pretty much eye-candy, the developer wll probably decide that if your GPU can't handle it, you won't see it (like the ripple). But in something like an editing app where you're applying one of the built-in Core Image Units, Tiger will hand off the work to your CPU and it will render properly (but slower).

So the functionality of Core Image (all of the Units) is there and is supported by the G4/G5 Macs but it runs slower than on those with GPUs - and where the CPU would take too long to render, the effect is turned off (most likely in transitional effects)
Good points,

And reading that makes sence to me. Are you aware of any current control sets that will let you turn on or off core image effects such as Ripple and other "real time" features that one may not want activated?

I am not sure if you are one of the few on here that has their copy of Tiger yet, so I am sorry if I am asking you in error.

840
 

stcanard

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Oct 19, 2003
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SpaceMagic said:
Core Image IS supported by iBooks, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, eMacs, mac minis, even G3 ibooks, G3 iMacs, etc... just the processes are placed on the CPU rather than the Graphics card.
There's also widespread confusion about the idea that the 9600 mobility is not a supported GPU because it's not explicitly listed on the site, whereas people who are actually running Tiger have reported that the 9600 mobility is supported.

I assume most of this confusion will be cleared up in 8 days...

(I had started to say all the confusion, but then realized how many people have never let measurable data get in the way of a good rant)
 

James Philp

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Mar 5, 2005
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It'll be similar to this:
I upgraded my PB G3 500 Pismo (2000) to Panther.
I do get expose and genie effect
I don't get cube transitions or any other quartz extreme stuff.
The expose and genie are a bit stuttery too, as the CPU is rendering them (due to my GPU is an ATI Rage 8MB VRAM - Ouch!)

Expect similar things from Tiger (as in the desktop will dim, and the widgets fade up (or zoom in or whatever) but effects and fancy stuff? - Forget it! But then again, I don't think it makes nearly ANY difference, i don't at all prefer using my iMac G4!) :)
 

BornAgainMac

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Feb 4, 2004
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If Core Image is used to create the ripple effect and you don't have a supported video card, why doesn't the CPU get off it's butt and do the ripple effect like it is suppose to? I thought all Macs will support Core Image but the work will be done on the CPU with a unsupported card.

The ripple effect doesn't have to be fast, just work.
 

James Philp

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Mar 5, 2005
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BornAgainMac said:
If Core Image is used to create the ripple effect and you don't have a supported video card, why doesn't the CPU get off it's butt and do the ripple effect like it is suppose to? I thought all Macs will support Core Image but the work will be done on the CPU with a unsupported card.

The ripple effect doesn't have to be fast, just work.
Not ripple but stutter along and look crap, and take up all of my lovely G3 500 processor? no thanks, gimmie that widget, NOW, stop fannying about!